Real Estate

Lower your Listing/Selling Fees - Use Flat Rate MLS

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  • Feb 18th, 2019 4:24 pm
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[OP]
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Aug 2, 2010
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lkovacs wrote:
Jun 15th, 2015 10:05 am
Trying to deduce what the discounts/rebates are by simply looking at the posted 2.5% commission rate on the MLS listing, is like trying to deduce the Sold price based on the Listed Price on the Public MLS listing. You can't deduce squat. You need to see the actual data.

For Sold data this is recorded on the agents MLS system as soon as the deal firms up.

Similarly for what the buyers agent final commission was, the data in is the trade record sheet which the brokerages process, and yes the administrator sees this. So your source is good.
First of all, it's hearsay from some guy who knows some other guy who works in some office as an administrator. We don't even know which one but just that is one of the largest at a puny 8% market share if that.

If you think you and landking have figured something out from perhaps a dubious window into hearsay on 4% of all transactions in the GTA (ie 1/2 of the transactions being buys) then it's time to do Statistics 101 and I also have some land in Florida I think you'd be interested in.
[OP]
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popbottle wrote:
Jun 15th, 2015 10:08 am
That is quite conventional in the Toronto area, and the way you explained the other things is using standard language. In addition you might want to mention that it is not required to have a research paper from the local real estate organization to know the normal fees.
Actually it is. Since when is some guy who knows some other guy that works in some unidentified office somewhere that claims something mean anything? Right, It don't.

I'll believe it when I see TREB come out with the stats like they have for so many other statistics. Easy enough, but they don't. Funny that...
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Apr 20, 2011
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lkovacs wrote:
Jun 15th, 2015 10:05 am
Thank you LandKing, your spot on of how it really works.

Trying to deduce what the discounts/rebates are by simply looking at the posted 2.5% commission rate on the MLS listing, is like trying to deduce the Sold price based on the Listed Price on the Public MLS listing. You can't deduce squat. You need to see the actual data.

For Sold data this is recorded on the agents MLS system as soon as the deal firms up.

Similarly for what the buyers agent final commission was, the data in is the trade record sheet which the brokerages process, and yes the administrator sees this. So your source is good.
It basically means everything but the kitchen sink. You don't need to name the company. What you say carries weight. The MLS has it.
[OP]
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I know someone who runs the biggest brokerage in Toronto and told whatever administrator you are talking to is blowing smoke (not to mention he said don't draw conclusions from a small 4% sample even if it were true).

Hmmm, who to believe...

:D
Deal Addict
May 31, 2009
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1% Cash back, and can view what houses sold for in your area. Great website

http://www.realmarketwatch.ca/

First drop down on left is Sold Houses by Community. Can search by sold date, neighborhood, street name, etc.
Penalty Box
Dec 27, 2013
8003 posts
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Toronto
eonibm wrote:
Jun 15th, 2015 12:15 am
Exactly. The realtors on here have had their ego's bruised and are concerned about their gravy train of commissions (which have zero bearing to the work being done any more) slip away. So, their only response is to respond with empty claims of rudeness rather than address the indisputable logic of my arguments.

Sorry realtors, you're really should be able to do better than to talk about everything but the issue at hand.
eonibm, the thing you need to realize is that RFD is not the world. So it doesn't matter how right you are and how much money you can save doing this... The reality is the vast majority of people will still always use a real estate agent out of fear/don't care/don't have time.

the thing about RFD is that you can get caught up on here thinking that the views of a few people on these forums are the reality for the vast majority. The fact is RFD and the trollers herein do not make up the majority by any means, so don't be fooled.

so the gravy train for realtors won't run out so long as TREB/MLS/OREA keep stats private and information hidden. That being said, the gravy train for realtors really isn't that great, unless you are a top performing one. I don't think of the 40,000 realtors in Ontario that they make that much cash.
[OP]
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daivey wrote:
Jun 15th, 2015 4:10 pm
eonibm, the thing you need to realize is that RFD is not the world. So it doesn't matter how right you are and how much money you can save doing this... The reality is the vast majority of people will still always use a real estate agent out of fear/don't care/don't have time.

the thing about RFD is that you can get caught up on here thinking that the views of a few people on these forums are the reality for the vast majority. The fact is RFD and the trollers herein do not make up the majority by any means, so don't be fooled.

so the gravy train for realtors won't run out so long as TREB/MLS/OREA keep stats private and information hidden. That being said, the gravy train for realtors really isn't that great, unless you are a top performing one. I don't think of the 40,000 realtors in Ontario that they make that much cash.
Oh I realize it! Totally agree with everything you have said. When have I claimed otherwise?

As for the gravy train yes it is more there for the agents who generate a significant amount of business and that is the 4000, ie 10% of TREB members, that do more than a dozen deals a year. However, even for the ones who do fewer deals it is still a gravy train because for the work they do they get paid very well. About 55% of TREB agents have to be working only part-time because they do 6 or less deals a year. 40% do 2 or less! 15% do ZERO. If someone is doing 1-6 deals a year and is busting their butt working full-time they should likely seek another profession. So, if you take out the part-timers then almost 25% of the full-time agents are doing more than a dozen deals a year. Even if one only did 12 deals a year and made 1/2 of the standard 2.5% commission and only sold 500K condos, that's $75+/year less what the brokerage takes as a cut. Sounds pretty gravy to me for doing one deal a month and is likely a higher figure because just selling one average detached Toronto home would be $1M+, so about double the commission. (The deals per TREB members data is all from TREB btw).
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Apr 20, 2011
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I wouldn't call it a gravy train by any means, since there are many expenses to pay as a self employed individual.

In addition, realtors in Ontario are prohibited from incorporating, so the income taxes incurred can be onerous without the tax saving tools that BC realtors can use.
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popbottle wrote:
Jun 15th, 2015 4:49 pm
I wouldn't call it a gravy train by any means, since there are many expenses to pay as a self employed individual.

In addition, realtors in Ontario are prohibited from incorporating, so the income taxes incurred can be onerous without the tax saving tools that BC realtors can use.

There's also no point of me incorporating my rental unit. I pay the same tax rate regardless... But they can still write off their expenses. So I'm not sure what you mean by that.
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in BC Realtors with corporations are still liable for most things thus they incorporate for the tax saving tools and not the other traditional advantages of a corporation. In Ontario it isn't allowed.
[OP]
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Aug 2, 2010
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But, alas, yes I am probably done here posting much more about real estate as the back and forth is tiresome, ie Not a gravy train, yes a gravy train, not a lot of work, yes it's a lot of work, baseless claims made on anecdotal experience, etc. Also, there's not much more to say. I have 3 real estate threads posted on 3 important different real estate topics that have generated a ton of interest and they have basically been discussed out ad infinitum.

The OREA real estate licencing course I am doing has really opened my eyes at how tiny a hurdle it is to become a licensed agent The main challenge to becoming successful is marketing yourself so you can get as many listings and buyers to represent as possible. The rest is pretty easy peasy. Anyone with a good head on their shoulders, who understands customer service and is willing to work hard can do very well and likely much better these days than they could do in a 9-5 job unless they have a specific profession that they were trained for that provides a high income. Even part-time you can make some nice scheckels on saving the commission on buying your own homes or listing one here and there.

Too bad RECO is more interested in generating fees from agents than upping the qualification requirements and requirements to keep one's licence. Fewer agents to compete with would be better for those agents out there who do want to work hard.
Deal Addict
Jun 6, 2015
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Talking about realtors, I was royally screwed. Why is there no website giving reviews, unlike other tradespeople or professions. Why should realtors consistently get away with lies and blue murder?
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Jun 6, 2015
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eonibm wrote:
Jun 15th, 2015 5:09 pm
But, alas, yes I am probably done here posting much more about real estate as the back and forth is tiresome, ie Not a gravy train, yes a gravy train, not a lot of work, yes it's a lot of work, baseless claims made on anecdotal experience, etc. Also, there's not much more to say. I have 3 real estate threads posted on 3 important different real estate topics that have generated a ton of interest and they have basically been discussed out ad infinitum.

The OREA real estate licencing course I am doing has really opened my eyes at how tiny a hurdle it is to become a licensed agent The main challenge to becoming successful is marketing yourself so you can get as many listings and buyers to represent as possible. The rest is pretty easy peasy. Anyone with a good head on their shoulders, who understands customer service and is willing to work hard can do very well and likely much better these days than they could do in a 9-5 job unless they have a specific profession that they were trained for that provides a high income. Even part-time you can make some nice scheckels on saving the commission on buying your own homes or listing one here and there.

Too bad RECO is more interested in generating fees from agents than upping the qualification requirements and requirements to keep one's licence. Fewer agents to compete with would be better for those agents out there who do want to work hard.
eonibm

Your work and input has been greatly appreciated. I for one hope that you continue to post in future. Just ignore trolls.

Thanks again for everything, you've got a great head on those shoulders. Cheers.
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The real estate course is nowhere near as easy as people think. It is a large thing to overcome and even after the courses and exams are passed then it is entry into a field with a myriad of things to follow

There is already a site with reviews, just like with other professions. www.yelp.ca
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Carebra wrote:
Jun 16th, 2015 2:52 pm
Talking about realtors, I was royally screwed. Why is there no website giving reviews, unlike other tradespeople or professions. Why should realtors consistently get away with lies and blue murder?
oh please tell - there should be a public shaming forum for bad realtors.

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