Real Estate

Lower your Listing/Selling Fees - Use Flat Rate MLS

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[OP]
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Aug 2, 2010
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Oh, and this from a 2009 Globe & Mail article quoting the ultra high-end Harvey Kalles real estate brokerage (who have a Rosedale MLS listing languishing on the market at 52 days):

"Deciding that "it was the same amount of work selling a $50,000 house as a house for $1,050,000," the family [Harvey Kalles Brokerage] decided to "farm" the ultra-tony Bridle Path neighbourhood.

(link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-o ... /?page=all)

Well, I'll be darned! There you have it right from the horses mouth! So, um, why do commission rates go up with house prices? Again, another argument for my proposal (subject of another thread you can find here: proposed-change-act-governing-real-esta ... 1711857/3/ ) that commission rates based on the difference between selling and listing price finally be legalized (currently prohibited by the legislation due to intense real estate lobbying). No point on paying any commission except maybe a flat rate on the amount you'd get anyway.
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The first course is quite easy. It is almost purely math questions. There is a noticeable difference in difficulty with Land, Structures and RE Trading and with the RE Transaction course.
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[OP]
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Aug 2, 2010
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oasis100 wrote:
Jun 25th, 2015 10:16 pm
The first course is quite easy. It is almost purely math questions. There is a noticeable difference in difficulty with Land, Structures and RE Trading and with the RE Transaction course.
Actually math is only 1/2 of the exam, but wrong thread. This is about flat rate MLS and doing the rest yourself and you don't need to take the course for that.

Post that in Earn back buyer's real estate agent commission - Become an Agent!
[OP]
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Aug 2, 2010
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So, here's a prime example that is happening right now that goes to the heart of what I am talking about:

Some prime agents in town, Sotheby's (with 3 agents working on the deal as a trio nonetheless), arguably a real estate brokerage that has one of the highest and most 'prestigious' profiles in town, recently convinced a homeowner to list a house in Rosedale, an area where these agents list a lot of homes. No doubt they showed up in fancy suits and presented a fantastic and beautiful-looking 'marketing plan' with all the bells and whistles to the homeowner. The house was priced using comparables, the house was staged, the pretty words listing put on MLS, the agents open houses done, the flyers sent out to the neighbourhood, the advertisements put in the papers and on social media, on the Sotheby's Wall St Journal advertisement and other highbrow ones around the world, the profile of the 'key buyer' was identified (a bunch of bull that sounds good but means nothing in terms of having that buyer actually make an offer btw), etc etc, ie all the standard no-brainer work most agents do. The house is 47 Maple Ave, Toronto. What happened?

Listed on 8 Apr 2015 at $3,195,000
Reduced by $396,000 to $2,799,000 a few weeks later
Still languishing on the market yesterday at 90 days

So, what happens today? Brand new listing showing ZERO days on the market for the same property at, voila, another $140,000 reduction to $2,659,000. Re-listing a house after it hasn't sold for quite some time (ie a 'dead' listing) resets the days on market counter to zero and is a clever ploy agents use to make listings look new as no one wants to buy a dead listing (it only fools the client not the agent as the latter has access to the MLS database which reveals the ruse). And yes I do realize sometimes the listing simply expires and they have to relist it again. However, not all buyers realize or find out the home was relisted (and I am not sure there is an obligation on the buyer's agent to inform a client of that, is there? Anyone know?)

So, tell me, how did that brilliant and strategic marketing plan do? How did that 'strategic' pricing do? How did that identification of the key buyer do? How did the 'network' those agents have do? What happened to the secret sauce marketing plan? Where is the value this owner will pay 2.5% for on $2,659,000 or $75,117 for (includes HST) just for the selling side and another $75,117 for the buy side (omg that much?) for a total of $150,224! What happened to all the 'strategy' on marketing?

Well, I tell you where it is. An agent once told me that once you do all of the no-brainer stuff most agents do to list a home, which any of us can do on our own (see my first post), the only reason a house doesn't sell she told me is

"Because the price is too high"

So, the only strategy is to lower the price when a house does not sell. Some strategy. Although I totally agree with it, I don't think that easy peasy strategy is worth $75K on this house (double the price of 8 years ago as house prices have doubled and the same work as selling something 1/10th the price). As Elise Kalles, arguable the most successful real estate agent in Toronto, said in a Globe and Mail article about what she realized when she started in the business years ago "Why sell $50K houses when it's the same work as a $1,050,000 house?"

Btw, the only other houses in Rosedale these agents have listed right now are languishing on the market for 31, 34 and 77 days as of today. I am sure they are great at what they do but it is nothing you cannot do yourself as long as you at least have the house listed on MLS and offer the buyer's agent (the co-operating brokerage in real estate parlance) a decent commission of 2-2.5%. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not saying these agents have no value. Many people don't want to do the work and have all of the stress (self-imposed) of listing a home on MLS themselves and would rather use an listing agent no matter what it costs. Fine. That's costing this homeowner $75K. I ain't paying that.
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Dec 21, 2010
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Actually, after the 90 days the home no longer shows up on the MLS and must be relisted to be active. It is called an EXPIRED LISTING. Ergo, the selling agent and/or homeowner has decided upon the new pricing with this fresh listing.

You will learn this in your studies eventually.
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Nov 19, 2004
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loriblum wrote:
Jul 8th, 2015 2:53 pm
Actually, after the 90 days the home no longer shows up on the MLS and must be relisted to be active. It is called an EXPIRED LISTING. Ergo, the selling agent and/or homeowner has decided upon the new pricing with this fresh listing.

You will learn this in your studies eventually.
It may expire automatically, but it should not be considered a new listing, when it is just being renewed. We had to "re list" after 90 days and there was no change in price or listing. So yes, it is just a way to pad stats when they talk about average days to sell.
[OP]
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loriblum wrote:
Jul 8th, 2015 2:53 pm
Actually, after the 90 days the home no longer shows up on the MLS and must be relisted to be active. It is called an EXPIRED LISTING. Ergo, the selling agent and/or homeowner has decided upon the new pricing with this fresh listing.

You will learn this in your studies eventually.
Thanks. Haven't got to that part yet but listings do not have to expire after 90 days. They can even be as long as 180 days or longer. So, crafty agents convince sellers to list for only 90 days so that they can then instantly relist it and shorten the reported days to sell and make buyer's think the property has been listed much shorter than it really has.

Does the buyer's agent have an obligation to let the buyer know it was listed, didn't sell and was instantly relisted?

Also, when relisted and if it sells in, say, 10 days, can the listing agent (it's the same one as before btw) then boast they sold the house in 10 days or do they have to say 100 days?
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No, there is no obligation. It is up to :the buyer's agent to do his or her research. Many times a home gets stale if it is overpriced or has any other stigma so it is not uncommon. We don't set the final selling price until a house actually sells so there is some assumption made when pricing out a listing.

And yes, they can then claim 10 days. As it becomes an ann-new listing, most often with a new agent assigned to the listing.
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don242 wrote:
Jul 8th, 2015 4:18 pm
It may expire automatically, but it should not be considered a new listing, when it is just being renewed. We had to "re list" after 90 days and there was no change in price or listing. So yes, it is just a way to pad stats when they talk about average days to sell.
Your listing expired after 90 days. It says so in the contract you signed. The fault is your own if you relisted at the same price, not the agents (although I'm sure there were discussions about price on both sides) and you signed with him or her again.
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loriblum wrote:
Jul 8th, 2015 4:40 pm
And yes, they can then claim 10 days. As it becomes an ann-new listing, most often with a new agent assigned to the listing.
Which just pads stats and provides false advertising when agents claim an average selling time.
[OP]
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loriblum wrote:
Jul 8th, 2015 4:40 pm
No, there is no obligation. It is up to :the buyer's agent to do his or her research. Many times a home gets stale if it is overpriced or has any other stigma so it is not uncommon. We don't set the final selling price until a house actually sells so there is some assumption made when pricing out a listing.

And yes, they can then claim 10 days. As it becomes an ann-new listing, most often with a new agent assigned to the listing.
Well I doubt any buyer's agent who wants to convince a client to buy the property is going to mention that it was on the market and didn't sell for 90 days or for whatever period and then was relisted. That isn't going to make them any more interested now is it?

I can see that boasting a 10 day period to sell is reasonable where there was some kind of time gap in time between the two listings. However, having an agent list a property and it not sell and then the same agent instantly relisting it the day after the listing expires and not having to add the previous period as part of the total days to sell period is extremely misleading, but then why am I surprised?

Also, is it not possible for a seller and client to mutually agree to terminate the agreement before the specified date and then relist the property? I just saw this happen in Rosedale recently with a listing that was just on for a few weeks.
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don242 wrote:
Jul 8th, 2015 4:47 pm
Which just pads stats and provides false advertising when agents claim an average selling time.

Sorry, but that makes no sense. If I take on a listing that has expired because some other agent could not sell it, I would most certainly mark it as a new listing and make sure that the listing is set to day 1
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[OP]
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loriblum wrote:
Jul 8th, 2015 4:51 pm
Sorry, but that makes no sense. If I take on a listing that has expired because some other agent could not sell it, I would most certainly mark it as a new listing and make sure that the listing is set to day 1
Yeah you take it on, but this is the same damn agent!
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loriblum wrote:
Jul 8th, 2015 4:44 pm
Your listing expired after 90 days. It says so in the contract you signed. The fault is your own if you relished at the same price, not the agents (although I'm su,re there were discussions about price on both sides) and you signed with him or her again.

Why lower the price when you are dealing with stupid buying agents who are acting in bad faith on offers on the house. No need for us to lower the price and neither did our agent suggest lowering it. Not sure where the "fault" comes in for not lowering the price.

Not to mention, if you list with someone else instead, aren't you beholden to pay to the original listing agent since they usually have some clause about selling even after your original listing is up. These guys have themselves covered so you can't just sell right after the contract ends and not have to pay them a commission.
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As a buyer's agent, I would most certainly do my research and use the fact that a house has been relisted to my advantage. There are many angles to use this to a buyer's advantage. I don't know how you can't see this? It shows me that the seller is now in a position to be more desperate to make this sale! Perfect opportunity for my buyer to come and low ball!

As well, it is the seller's option to terminate an agreement.

Again, you will learn the terminology in the listings, such as "holdover" and others, and you will become better informed.

Best of luck. I'm off to a showing.
Award Winning Realtor - I LOVE MY JOB!!
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