Real Estate

Lower your Listing/Selling Fees - Use Flat Rate MLS

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  • Sep 28th, 2019 1:08 pm
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[OP]
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2010
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Here 'n There
Goggle wrote:
Jul 6th, 2018 7:20 pm
Sorry dumb question, does the seller still have to pay 2.5% commision (or half month for lease) for the buyer agent (tenant agent for lease)?
No, but do you actually think any buyer agent is going to want to show your property if they aren't getting paid anything when other listings are providing 2.5% or 2%? Hardly!
Sr. Member
Mar 13, 2009
557 posts
76 upvotes
Maple
I have read this topic with great interest.

Like in any area, there are good professionals and bad professionals. Is it worth to pay 2.5% to a bad professional? No, it's not worth to hire a bad professional even for free.

But trust me, as someone who made over dozen real estate deals in the last 10 years, a food real estate agent can add a LOT of value and save you a LOT of money. But of course some people are cheap, and are trying always to save. They will file their own taxes and not hire an accountant (or try to find the cheapest one). It's matter of mentality.

Like everything in life, you get what you pay for. I will pay my agent every day because she saves me a LOT of money in the process. Same with my accountant.
[OP]
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2010
14329 posts
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Here 'n There
ak1004 wrote:
Feb 13th, 2019 9:39 am
I have read this topic with great interest.

Like in any area, there are good professionals and bad professionals. Is it worth to pay 2.5% to a bad professional? No, it's not worth to hire a bad professional even for free.

But trust me, as someone who made over dozen real estate deals in the last 10 years, a food real estate agent can add a LOT of value and save you a LOT of money. But of course some people are cheap, and are trying always to save. They will file their own taxes and not hire an accountant (or try to find the cheapest one). It's matter of mentality.

Like everything in life, you get what you pay for. I will pay my agent every day because she saves me a LOT of money in the process. Same with my accountant.
Trust me friend, you are totally off the mark when you say that you get what you pay for with real estate listings. Nothing could be further from the truth. The balance of power and information has shifted to the savvy consumer so much that it's not funny.

Just look at my first post and you tell me what an agent adds to that.

zzzzzz

Yup. I thought that would be your answer.

Now of course if you struggle to do those basic steps yourself and/or you just love paying an arm and a leg for hand-holding then who am I to tell you that you shouldn't throw away your money?
Sr. Member
Mar 13, 2009
557 posts
76 upvotes
Maple
eonibm wrote:
Feb 13th, 2019 5:46 pm
Trust me friend, you are totally off the mark when you say that you get what you pay for with real estate listings. Nothing could be further from the truth. The balance of power and information has shifted to the savvy consumer so much that it's not funny.

Just look at my first post and you tell me what an agent adds to that.

zzzzzz

Yup. I thought that would be your answer.

Now of course if you struggle to do those basic steps yourself and/or you just love paying an arm and a leg for hand-holding then who am I to tell you that you shouldn't throw away your money?
You completely missed my point.

Of course if you hire a bad professional, you don't get what you pay for. But having a good professional on your side is much better than doing it alone, and well worth the money.

Same is true with financial advisers, and any other professional. You can do everything alone instead of hiring a good professional, but instead of saving money, the outcome will be the opposite. You will just not be aware of it and think that you saved money.

Been there, done that.

In my business, I charge premium price because I add value to my clients (just ask around, some of them are members of RDF). Some similar businesses charge much less - most of them are not in business anymore, after blowing up their clients accounts.

So yes, you get what you pay for - if you know what to buy and whom to hire.
[OP]
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2010
14329 posts
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Here 'n There
ak1004 wrote:
Feb 13th, 2019 6:22 pm
You completely missed my point.

Of course if you hire a bad professional, you don't get what you pay for. But having a good professional on your side is much better than doing it alone, and well worth the money.

Same is true with financial advisers, and any other professional. You can do everything alone instead of hiring a good professional, but instead of saving money, the outcome will be the opposite. You will just not be aware of it and think that you saved money.

Been there, done that.

In my business, I charge premium price because I add value to my clients (just ask around, some of them are members of RDF). Some similar businesses charge much less - most of them are not in business anymore, after blowing up their clients accounts.

So yes, you get what you pay for - if you know what to buy and whom to hire.
Not really. You need to stop being a lemming and drinking the 'have to have a real estate agent to list a house' kool-aid. The fact you don't realize that it's the buyers' agent hungry for the 2-2.5% co-op fee who bring 98%+ of the buyers, not the listing agent, shows you have totally lost the plot. But, hey, it's your money. Pay $50K just to list a $2M house because you have been hypnotized into thinking the value is there. I have proven it is not.
Sr. Member
Mar 13, 2009
557 posts
76 upvotes
Maple
eonibm wrote:
Feb 14th, 2019 7:13 pm
Not really. You need to stop being a lemming and drinking the 'have to have a real estate agent to list a house' kool-aid. The fact you don't realize that it's the buyers' agent hungry for the 2-2.5% co-op fee who bring 98%+ of the buyers, not the listing agent, shows you have totally lost the plot. But, hey, it's your money. Pay $50K just to list a $2M house because you have been hypnotized into thinking the value is there. I have proven it is not.
You will pay the 2.5% to the buying agent anyway. And if you sell with an agent that you have been working with for years, you should never pay more than 1-1.5%. But if you believe that anyone is going to provide the same level of service for flat fee of $799, you are delusional.
Sr. Member
Mar 13, 2009
557 posts
76 upvotes
Maple
Here is an example of a good agent who adds value:

When we listed our previous house about 2 years ago, the market was completely dead. Our agent brought her own team of renovators and stagers and completely transformed our house while we were on vacation in Europe. Then she insisted that we offer a bonus to the buying agent.

The house was sold in 3 weeks in a completely dead market (sales down 80% in our area) for 1.67M while similar houses were selling around 1.55-1.60M. A house next to us was listed one month later for 1.8M. Is was on the market more than 4 months and was sold for 1.58M. Similar size, but much more upgrades. A house on next street which was 800 sqft larger was sold for 1.67M.

This is the power of a good agent.
[OP]
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2010
14329 posts
4189 upvotes
Here 'n There
ak1004 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2019 7:52 pm
Here is an example of a good agent who adds value:

When we listed our previous house about 2 years ago, the market was completely dead. Our agent brought her own team of renovators and stagers and completely transformed our house while we were on vacation in Europe. Then she insisted that we offer a bonus to the buying agent.

The house was sold in 3 weeks in a completely dead market (sales down 80% in our area) for 1.67M while similar houses were selling around 1.55-1.60M. A house next to us was listed one month later for 1.8M. Is was on the market more than 4 months and was sold for 1.58M. Similar size, but much more upgrades. A house on next street which was 800 sqft larger was sold for 1.67M.

This is the power of a good agent.
Well of course if you don't have the basic no-brainer skills to hire a good renovator and stager (they are a dime a dozen) and then don't mind paying $42,000 (2.5% of 1.67M) on top of that to your agent just to list on MLS then that is of course your business. I'd rather put that money in my pocket!
Jr. Member
Jan 8, 2011
108 posts
69 upvotes
Ottawa
ak1004 wrote:
Feb 14th, 2019 7:25 pm
You will pay the 2.5% to the buying agent anyway. And if you sell with an agent that you have been working with for years, you should never pay more than 1-1.5%. But if you believe that anyone is going to provide the same level of service for flat fee of $799, you are delusional.
I see your point in a slow market in a quiet city. But why would anyone pay out $30,000+ in commissions in a warm or hot market in Toronto? It seems like a big waste of money. Yes, agents may 'bring' buyers to you but don't the vast majority of buyers look at MLS, Facebook groups, Kijiji etc. by themselves as well? What value from an agent am I getting exactly?

It's so easy to price your unit now with all the public info out there, what am I missing here?
Sr. Member
Mar 13, 2009
557 posts
76 upvotes
Maple
SWilliams2 wrote:
Feb 15th, 2019 7:51 pm
I see your point in a slow market in a quiet city. But why would anyone pay out $30,000+ in commissions in a warm or hot market in Toronto? It seems like a big waste of money. Yes, agents may 'bring' buyers to you but don't the vast majority of buyers look at MLS, Facebook groups, Kijiji etc. by themselves as well? What value from an agent am I getting exactly?

It's so easy to price your unit now with all the public info out there, what am I missing here?
Well the fact is that our house was sold in three weeks in a completely dead market, for $100k more than similar houses in the area. Not to mention most of them took 4-6 months to sell. So yes, I was very happy to pay $30k to my agent.

As a professional who provides trading education, I hear those arguments every day. People ask me why they should pay me for something that is available on the internet for free. Then some of them sign up and tell me that they are now making money for the first time in their trading career.

So yes, it still pays off to pay to a good professional. I know that the spirit of RFD is to get things for free, or as cheap as possible. Trust me, it rarely works.
[OP]
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2010
14329 posts
4189 upvotes
Here 'n There
SWilliams2 wrote:
Feb 15th, 2019 7:51 pm
I see your point in a slow market in a quiet city. But why would anyone pay out $30,000+ in commissions in a warm or hot market in Toronto? It seems like a big waste of money. Yes, agents may 'bring' buyers to you but don't the vast majority of buyers look at MLS, Facebook groups, Kijiji etc. by themselves as well? What value from an agent am I getting exactly?

It's so easy to price your unit now with all the public info out there, what am I missing here?
Exactly and once posted on MLS it attracts a hungry pack of dobermans (aka real estate agents hungry for the 2.5%) trying to get their clients to buy it. A selling agent has very little to do with the home being sold. In fact, less than 2% of the listing agents ever actually also find the buyer.
[OP]
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2010
14329 posts
4189 upvotes
Here 'n There
ak1004 wrote:
Feb 15th, 2019 9:19 pm
Well the fact is that our house was sold in three weeks in a completely dead market, for $100k more than similar houses in the area. Not to mention most of them took 4-6 months to sell. So yes, I was very happy to pay $30k to my agent.

As a professional who provides trading education, I hear those arguments every day. People ask me why they should pay me for something that is available on the internet for free. Then some of them sign up and tell me that they are now making money for the first time in their trading career.

So yes, it still pays off to pay to a good professional. I know that the spirit of RFD is to get things for free, or as cheap as possible. Trust me, it rarely works.
Trust me, you are so wrong. So called 'professionals' are worth it in certain industries. The boat has sailed on the real estate industry requiring them, except of course for people like you who can't hire stages and renovater if your life depended on it. So yes, for people like you it's worth paying $30-$50K for something others can do with their eyes closed.
Jr. Member
Jan 8, 2011
108 posts
69 upvotes
Ottawa
ak1004 wrote:
Feb 15th, 2019 9:19 pm
Well the fact is that our house was sold in three weeks in a completely dead market, for $100k more than similar houses in the area. Not to mention most of them took 4-6 months to sell. So yes, I was very happy to pay $30k to my agent.

As a professional who provides trading education, I hear those arguments every day. People ask me why they should pay me for something that is available on the internet for free. Then some of them sign up and tell me that they are now making money for the first time in their trading career.

So yes, it still pays off to pay to a good professional. I know that the spirit of RFD is to get things for free, or as cheap as possible. Trust me, it rarely works.
For sure - in a quiet time when houses can sit for months without an offer, an agent makes sense. But I don't see any value using an agent when selling a condo in a hot market. Comparing agents to other professionals doesn't really make sense to me - it's a completely different ball game.
Sr. Member
Mar 13, 2009
557 posts
76 upvotes
Maple
SWilliams2 wrote:
Feb 16th, 2019 12:04 pm
For sure - in a quiet time when houses can sit for months without an offer, an agent makes sense. But I don't see any value using an agent when selling a condo in a hot market. Comparing agents to other professionals doesn't really make sense to me - it's a completely different ball game.
I believe even in hot markets a good agent can still add value. And same arguments are often made about accountants, financial planners etc. Everything is available on the internet, so why to pay anyone to file your taxes? Why to pay a financial professional to manage your portfolio? etc etc
[OP]
Deal Guru
Aug 2, 2010
14329 posts
4189 upvotes
Here 'n There
ak1004 wrote:
Feb 16th, 2019 3:22 pm
I believe even in hot markets a good agent can still add value. And same arguments are often made about accountants, financial planners etc. Everything is available on the internet, so why to pay anyone to file your taxes? Why to pay a financial professional to manage your portfolio? etc etc
Your reply makes it pathetically obvious why you are struggling so much with the concept of selling a property yourself on MLS and prefer to pay $30-$50K so someone else can hold your hand and guide you through the simple process. Your comparisons are faulty parallelism. The bar is so insanely low to become a real estate agent it's not funny. You can become one in less than 4 months after spending less than $5K, studying part time and you don't even have to have finished high school! That's hardly the case with those professions you try to compare them to. I mean really, are you that naive? (Rhetorical question btw...)

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