Boxing Day 2016 Discussion

Lowest Boxing Day 6700K is $50 more expensive than lowest Black Friday price !?

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  • Dec 31st, 2016 2:49 am
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[OP]
Newbie
Dec 25, 2016
9 posts
4 upvotes
Toronto (downtown)
"We are smaller" is the excuse of the monopolist-oligarchs who rip us off on a daily basis: banks, telecoms, AIRLINES, retailers. No, we are not small. We have a population the size of California. California alone is the 7th largest economy on the planet. That is not small.

Sure, there's always someone bigger than us in every respect. Even in land mass we're smaller than Russia, but so effin' what??!! We're still G7, top-of-the-pops world economy! If Canada was in Europe it would have been the 5th largest country by population. That is not small.

Canadian oligarchs have long used that mantra to put the Canadian people down and justify their greed, ineptness and immoral profits. Just look at the latest study for mobile telephony - Canada pays the most expensive price tag in the developed world. Look at the annual profits of the banks (the most disgusting oligopoly in Canada!) - they are awash in cash sucked dry out of the Canadian working people - their profits are much higher, size/market adjusted, than many bigger banks in USA, Europe and Asia!

It is time for the Canadian people to stop taking oligarchs' BS and boycott Canadian monopolies and their immoral profits!!
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AlienWare user.... BeWare of the Alien....
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Jan 31, 2011
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There was some pretty good deals to be had. It is just a matter of luck if the item you were looking for happens to be on a good deal.

You seem to have convinced yourself that every item must have a BD price which is less than a BF price which is in turn less than regular price. That was never true. It will always be a mixed bag.

There is very good logic as to why retailers would want to push sales harder on BF than BD, especially when they are not having a great fiscal year.
Deal Expert
Mar 23, 2004
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thunder wrote: Nothing is known about graphics chip which will be integrated into the chip, nor the TDP.
The funny part is this is the only thing that could really be of any interest about Kaby Lake. KL offers zero IPC improvements over Skylake, only higher stock clock speeds for the newer processors. E.g. A 7600K will have slightly higher base/turbo than a 6600K. Other than that we'll have a new set of boards (200-chipset) that may (or may not) offer some newer features--big whoop. KL CPUs will still work in 100-series chipset boards provided the manufacturer releases a BIOS update (99% of which will, apart from off-brand/no-name stuff and possibly some OEM boards).

So, the iGPU is the only thing that could possibly have improved! Now we know it has a little more complete HEVC coverage than did HD 5xx but the actual GPU speed remains to be seen. I'm guessing this is the only thing Intel cared to put under NDA given it's the only thing we haven't seen any reviews on yet! The rest of "Kaby Lake" is more like "Skylake Refresh" than anything else. If not for the GPU difference this would absolutely be no different than Haswell Refresh was to Haswell.
[OP]
Newbie
Dec 25, 2016
9 posts
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Toronto (downtown)
cheamh wrote:
You seem to have convinced yourself that every item must have a BD price which is less than a BF price which is in turn less than regular price.
Yes, that's exactly what I expected and counted on as a Canadian, not American. All BD discounts to at least match and even go deeper that the BF ones. But the ugly truth came out - we live in the 51st state of the Union - it's all Americanized now, no more Canadiana.
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AlienWare user.... BeWare of the Alien....
Sr. Member
Dec 26, 2011
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ES_Revenge wrote: The funny part is this is the only thing that could really be of any interest about Kaby Lake. KL offers zero IPC improvements over Skylake, only higher stock clock speeds for the newer processors. E.g. A 7600K will have slightly higher base/turbo than a 6600K. Other than that we'll have a new set of boards (200-chipset) that may (or may not) offer some newer features--big whoop. KL CPUs will still work in 100-series chipset boards provided the manufacturer releases a BIOS update (99% of which will, apart from off-brand/no-name stuff and possibly some OEM boards).

So, the iGPU is the only thing that could possibly have improved! Now we know it has a little more complete HEVC coverage than did HD 5xx but the actual GPU speed remains to be seen. I'm guessing this is the only thing Intel cared to put under NDA given it's the only thing we haven't seen any reviews on yet! The rest of "Kaby Lake" is more like "Skylake Refresh" than anything else. If not for the GPU difference this would absolutely be no different than Haswell Refresh was to Haswell.
K-series 7700k's already have retail availability. As such they in the hands of both tech sites and regular buyers sans NDA.

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/99820 ... ke/?page=5
http://www.eteknix.com/intel-core-i7-77 ... -review/6/
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Mar 23, 2004
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arandomguy wrote: K-series 7700k's already have retail availability. As such they in the hands of both tech sites and regular buyers sans NDA.

http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/99820 ... ke/?page=5
http://www.eteknix.com/intel-core-i7-77 ... -review/6/
The Hexus link is obviously not on the iGPU--nearly 7000 on TimeSpy would make that as fast as the fastest GPU out there! :lol: And low and behold that's exactly what they tested with--a GTX 1080. ;) If HD 630 were that fast people would be clearing these off the shelves like nobody's business! LOL.

The Eteknix link actually does test the iGPU--this is the first test I've seen of this, thanks for posting. The HD 630 iGPU is about 20% faster than HD 530 it looks like, which is not bad and again the only improvement in these CPUs. I wonder if this makes it trump APUs like A10-78xxK? Too bad they didn't include one of those in the test. AMD probably still has the edge with the high-clocked iGPUs in the A12s but those aren't even consumer CPUs (OEM only) and nobody gives a damn about Bulldozer anyway lol. However I'm going to imagine that once Ryzen releases they will still have the upper hand in iGPU performance, possibly by a good bit. That may force Intel to use Iris Pro in Coffee Lake, but who knows?
[OP]
Newbie
Dec 25, 2016
9 posts
4 upvotes
Toronto (downtown)
Probably the best reason to wait for the 7700K is the HEVC hardware decoding for 4K streams. Nowadays, even dedicated gamers wait quite a bit b/w updates, not 3 years, more like 5, if not 6, and 5 years from now 4K will be as common as FHD today. The iGPU bump is reasonable, but nothing special, after all no iGPU is going to get you 80FPS in Witcher 3 with hairworks on.
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AlienWare user.... BeWare of the Alien....
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Yeah I'm pretty mad about this, too. I ended up ordering from MemEX cause I don't feel like waiting anymore since my plan was to have a PC built already.
Koodo, Fido, Telus, Public Mobile, Virgin customer.
Deal Addict
Feb 28, 2004
3807 posts
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Vancouver
Simply put,
Intel supports retailers for BF sales.
If retailer's upfront cost for 6700K is $400, intel maybe chipped in $50 per every CPU sold.
Intel being US company, cares less about Boxing day. Now retailers have to work with their front end cost alone or lower $ support from Intel.
Also, Intel wouldn't want to run separate big sales on BF in US and Boxing day in Canada, it will get messy with retailers who has market on both sides or gray markets.

This has been happening with almost all electronics.
Days of dumping aging stock on Boxing day is long gone.
Margins are paper thin and inventories are kept at minimum.
Retailers have to rely on manufactures to drive the sale price.

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Deal Fanatic
Dec 5, 2006
8336 posts
3778 upvotes
Markham
XtremeModder wrote: You answered your own question. It's because we're in Canada. We don't argue about pricing, we take what is offered and accept it.

In another sense, if regular gas went from $1.05/L up to $2.50/L. All you would see is 'BOYCOTT x GAS STATION' and that's it, we'd still pay that high price and not really say anything.

Another example; Why aren't people protesting about hydro rates and making a huge fuss about it until the companies get annoyed and drop prices? That's right! Because we take it and don't do crap about it.
Funny thing is when hydro has different price for different time period,people praise it and when uber has surge price, people are mad and they are same person.
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Mar 23, 2004
27423 posts
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importpsycho wrote: Simply put,
Intel supports retailers for BF sales.
If retailer's upfront cost for 6700K is $400, intel maybe chipped in $50 per every CPU sold.
Intel being US company, cares less about Boxing day. Now retailers have to work with their front end cost alone or lower $ support from Intel.
Also, Intel wouldn't want to run separate big sales on BF in US and Boxing day in Canada, it will get messy with retailers who has market on both sides or gray markets.
This is actually a very good point. The discount on BF was probably heavily "subsidised" by Intel themselves. I'm guessing no such discount is given/given anymore by Intel for BD. I'm guessing they may have in the past but they probably tell retailers, "hey, we're only doing this once a year, either take it for BF or take it for BD" and retailers probably leaned toward BF to compete with US/just to become more Americanised. Plus stores that are US-owned anyway (like Newegg) will have an easier time co-ordinating their sales like this between Can and US.
importpsycho wrote:This has been happening with almost all electronics.

Retailers have to rely on manufactures to drive the sale price.
Aside from computer parts, I think this only happens with companies that do business like Crapple where they set the price and the retailer basically has to follow because otherwise they won't be "allowed" to sell those products and/or the profit margin is tightly controlled by the manufacturer as well.

All the older skool/regular-way-of-doing business stuff is still fair game to deep discounts, though the retailers certainly aren't that forthcoming. Even the manufacturers that don't allow advertised prices under MSRP (those ones where you have to "add to cart" to see the price, etc.) still do business the regular way, unlike underhanded Crapple. That's why you can often see great deals on things like speakers, AVRs, etc just on random days in the year...though these are still more common in the US than Canada but that's due to other factors, not the manufacturers.
[OP]
Newbie
Dec 25, 2016
9 posts
4 upvotes
Toronto (downtown)
Naveedx wrote: Yeah I'm pretty mad about this, too. I ended up ordering from MemEX cause I don't feel like waiting anymore since my plan was to have a PC built already.

that was my plan too. but now it's not going to happen. I'm going to wait a couple of months and get the 7700K at full price as soon as it comes out - obviously it makes no sense to wait a year for the prices to go down.. and the 1080 might come down a bit by then
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AlienWare user.... BeWare of the Alien....
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Sep 19, 2002
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As someone who has worked in this industry, I can tell you:

1. Vendors and distributors have limited budgets for marketing campaigns. Once they blow their funds on Black Friday, that's it. The discounts come from top down. It isn't Newegg or Memory Express that's funding these Black Friday prices, it's Asus, TP-Link, Netgear, etc. And those guys aren't betting on Boxing Day.
2. The PC market is shrinking by double digits annually. The peak was around 2010.
3. Canada is a small market with high shipping costs, weak dollar and economy.

Black Friday sales are about as good as it gets for the entire year.
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Mar 2, 2005
2032 posts
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gbg2000 wrote: "We are smaller" is the excuse of the monopolist-oligarchs who rip us off on a daily basis: banks, telecoms, AIRLINES, retailers. No, we are not small. We have a population the size of California. California alone is the 7th largest economy on the planet. That is not small.

Sure, there's always someone bigger than us in every respect. Even in land mass we're smaller than Russia, but so effin' what??!! We're still G7, top-of-the-pops world economy! If Canada was in Europe it would have been the 5th largest country by population. That is not small.

Canadian oligarchs have long used that mantra to put the Canadian people down and justify their greed, ineptness and immoral profits. Just look at the latest study for mobile telephony - Canada pays the most expensive price tag in the developed world. Look at the annual profits of the banks (the most disgusting oligopoly in Canada!) - they are awash in cash sucked dry out of the Canadian working people - their profits are much higher, size/market adjusted, than many bigger banks in USA, Europe and Asia!

It is time for the Canadian people to stop taking oligarchs' BS and boycott Canadian monopolies and their immoral profits!!
I am not here to debate on this lower pricing on boxing day mantra, but you obviously have little to no knowledge of economies of scale. Maybe you are still a student and have little to zero hands on experience as to how different Canada and its legislation are compared to US.

No one said boxing day was supposed to be lower pricing because this is Canada. The hey day for boxing day was the rise of computers and flat panel televisions. Those days are long gone.

The particular item you wanted is priced higher on Boxing Day than on Black Friday. So what? You gambled and lost. Do you still need it? If yes, then $50 isn't going to break your bank. If you can wait for something better to come along, then do that.

Life is way more than fretting over $50 and "how dare they priced it higher on Boxing Day?" notions.

Learn from it, smile and move on, Good Luck.
Sr. Member
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Jan 19, 2007
950 posts
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Torontario
Spinner wrote: As someone who has worked in this industry, I can tell you:

1. Vendors and distributors have limited budgets for marketing campaigns. Once they blow their funds on Black Friday, that's it. The discounts come from top down. It isn't Newegg or Memory Express that's funding these Black Friday prices, it's Asus, TP-Link, Netgear, etc. And those guys aren't betting on Boxing Day.
2. The PC market is shrinking by double digits annually. The peak was around 2010.
3. Canada is a small market with high shipping costs, weak dollar and economy.

Black Friday sales are about as good as it gets for the entire year.
And other more general arguments:

4. These TVs and others deal like the above do not 3-d print themselves - these are made 3-6m advance in China. These get shipped by latest Oct from there to be here -- so most of the deals you see are actually decided months in advance!!!

5. Coordination of budgets, trade allowances, and marketing expenses is much easier when you run global campaigns - in the last couple of years UK and some EU countries do Blackfriday as well

6. Boxing day was historically to liquidate surplus and less desirable stock left from Christmas shopping season. Thus having BF makes more sense to sell for Christmas gifting, and BD will move back to be liquidation day...

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