Travel

Mandatory vaccinations by end of October: Will that encompass international, direct travel?

  • Last Updated:
  • Aug 17th, 2021 2:38 am
[OP]
Sr. Member
Jan 26, 2020
640 posts
155 upvotes
Canada

Mandatory vaccinations by end of October: Will that encompass international, direct travel?

So we will need to be vaccinated for travel within the country.
But what if we are getting a non-stop flight to a country like Mexico that doesn't even require a test? You wouldn't think they would restrict people leaving, surely.
Does anyone know about this? If so they'll probably ban anyone non-vaccinated from even entering an airport.
12 replies
Deal Guru
May 9, 2007
13752 posts
4114 upvotes
Vancouver Island, BC
I’m guessing that soon airline travelers boarding in Canada will be able to do so with confidence that all crew and passengers are vaccinated.

I think we will see more details in the next week or two, but here is the kind of wording I’m reading.
Travellers on commercial airlines, interprovincial trains and cruise ships will also be required to be vaccinated by that date.
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/0 ... travellers

I notice that there is a qualifier of “interprovincial” regarding trains, but not a similar qualifier regarding airlines or cruise ships. A plane departing from Canada uses an airport in federal jurisdiction and Canadian air space. I assume that foreign airlines must be licensed by Canada to fly into and out of Canada. So my guess is that this will apply to all air travel originating in Canada.

Even if it does not apply by law, it appears that Canadian airlines are supportive. They may introduce a requirement for passengers with federal support. I would think that it would be unhelpful from a business perspective for a foreign airline to not implement something similar and alienate the Canadian authorities.
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[OP]
Sr. Member
Jan 26, 2020
640 posts
155 upvotes
Canada
This is one very poorly written National Observer article considering its epic importance to so many of us.
"Earlier in the week, France and Italy both implemented systems that require people to show special virus passes before travelling by air or participating in some other non-essential activities.
Those passes are granted to anyone who is vaccinated against COVID-19, has recently recovered from the virus OR HAS TESTED NEGATIVE IN RECENT DAYS."

Its most likely referring to what France and Italy have proposed but, because of the sloppy writing, we're not sure. It could pertain to Canada. As we have to be PCR tested for travel to most countries anyways, why do they even mention this? It surely will allow unvaccinated people to get on that plane if they get a test. And if they're careful for a couple weeks before that test and stay away from people rigorously, the chances of an infection are extremely remote.
Deal Addict
Jun 15, 2021
1156 posts
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Unless Canada can force foreign airlines, you will not need to be vaccinated if you take an international flight with no in-canada connecting flight (air canada, westjet). So if you fly from Vancouver or Toronto with KLM/Lufthansa/British Airways/ANA, you can just have the 72hr PCR test.

Of course these airlines could enforce it by themselves, but it's another nail in the coffin for foreign tourism if Canada will not accept a PCR test like, every other country in the entire world (AFAIK, only Canada has a mandatory vaccination, no PCR alternative). If I was a betting man I'm going to say Australia will be the only other country to enforce this in the future (Qantas was saying a long time ago they want to only fly vaccinated passengers). Anyone is welcome to correct me if any other country in the world exists that mandates 100% vaccinations for airline travelers with no 72hr PCR/antigen test as an alternative.

IMO the future is bleak if you are working in the travel industry in Canada. Only domestic tourists and 30-70% of foreign tourists capacity, depending on the country of residence for each tourist.
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[OP]
Sr. Member
Jan 26, 2020
640 posts
155 upvotes
Canada
Canada is worried about the returning passengers of course, especially as people, when drinking, are not too astute with social distancing. Especially when she's really attractive. Then its often RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW!
Deal Guru
May 9, 2007
13752 posts
4114 upvotes
Vancouver Island, BC
MrBungal wrote: Unless Canada can force foreign airlines, you will not need to be vaccinated if you take an international flight with no in-canada connecting flight (air canada, westjet). So if you fly from Vancouver or Toronto with KLM/Lufthansa/British Airways/ANA, you can just have the 72hr PCR test.
Correct me if I’m wrong OP, but isn’t that the nature of your question?

Can Canada force a foreign airline, that is doing business in Canada, using a Canadian airport, and flying in Canadian air space to comply with Canadian law?

I would be surprised if the answer were “No”.
Global warming will be exceeded during the 21st century unless deep reductions in carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gas emissions occur (United Nations IPCC Report 2021)

Every disaster film starts with scientists being ignored
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jun 6, 2007
1676 posts
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Toronto
MrBungal wrote: So if you fly from Vancouver or Toronto with KLM/Lufthansa/British Airways/ANA, you can just have the 72hr PCR test.
Just to clarify you don't currently require a negative test, proof of vaccine, or quarantine for entering Netherlands.
MrBungal wrote: Anyone is welcome to correct me if any other country in the world exists that mandates 100% vaccinations for airline travelers with no 72hr PCR/antigen test as an alternative.
Not positive if you were talking about international arrivals or domestic flights. If international arrivals, Thailand comes to mind. Not only are you required to be fully vaccinated but you also still need to quarantine for 14 days in Phuket if you decide to go. Still better than many Asian countries where you can't even get in if you are fully vaccinated. I think Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Canbodia, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, etc fall in to that list.
Last edited by 99bimmer on Aug 15th, 2021 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Jan 26, 2020
640 posts
155 upvotes
Canada
> Correct me if I’m wrong OP, but isn’t that the nature of your question?

Sure is.

> Can Canada force a foreign airline, that is doing business in Canada, using a Canadian airport, and flying in Canadian air space to comply with Canadian law?

Yes, you would think they could certainly dictate conditions. And they won't suffer nearly as much as the destination country if people don't go, instead of going abroad, getting infected, then coming home to a hospital here. Health care costs are reduced if people stay home and don't get infected as much abroad. Also there is the risk of further mutations and their spread with international travel. I wonder if they are trying to prod people to get vaccinated by making these threats. It does work after all. If enough get vaccinated they can back off and look better to more centrist ring wingers whom they are hoping for votes. Trudeau may also choose to implement this after the Sep 20 election so he doesn't look draconian before the election. The timing is suspicious. As if they need 2 months to implement something like this. They could probably get it done by their legal team in just a few days if they wanted.
[OP]
Sr. Member
Jan 26, 2020
640 posts
155 upvotes
Canada
> I think Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Canbodia, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, etc fall in to that list.

I think its their experience with SARS a few years ago that scared them to death. Also tropical countries are addicted to air conditioning and that is often in very poorly ventilated spaces so its ripe for airborne viruses. Also many people in that region live very densely with others so if one gets it they all get it. Often multiple people sleeping in the same room. We can't imagine it but for them it just feels normal. Now if they opt for air conditioning it just hugely magnifies the problem because they are probably using those long narrow units that mount near the ceiling (because they are cheap) and tightly seal the windows shut to maximize the cooling effectiveness. The irony is a generation ago much of the region was much poorer and couldn't even consider air conditioning, not only for the initial cost but the huge power consumption. Many of these countries have power rates much higher than ours and they often make much less than we do so it hits them very hard. But back then they would have had the windows wide open maximizing airflow. Its a different world now. And its much less healthy.
Deal Expert
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Oct 5, 2008
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Another “one way to Mexico” thread by the OP for a situation that only pertains to himself

Bring on the downvotes!
Deal Guru
May 9, 2007
13752 posts
4114 upvotes
Vancouver Island, BC
MichaelZZZ wrote: If enough get vaccinated they can back off and look better to more centrist ring wingers whom they are hoping for votes. Trudeau may also choose to implement this after the Sep 20 election so he doesn't look draconian before the election. The timing is suspicious. As if they need 2 months to implement something like this. They could probably get it done by their legal team in just a few days if they wanted.
I disagree, but there is plenty of opportunity to discuss that in the appropriate forum,

politics-and-religion-f195/
Global warming will be exceeded during the 21st century unless deep reductions in carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gas emissions occur (United Nations IPCC Report 2021)

Every disaster film starts with scientists being ignored
[OP]
Sr. Member
Jan 26, 2020
640 posts
155 upvotes
Canada
> Another “one way to Mexico” thread by the OP for a situation that only pertains to himself

You don't think a mandatory vaccine and its implications will affect people vacationing in Mexico or any other country?

A lot of us are not anti-vaccine per say. We just want to wait a little longer to see more data.

Also as the virus mutates new vaccines may be more effective. As your enemy changes your battle plan changes, right?

A vaccine is a drug and drugs have side effects. Even an Aspirin has side effects and they're not good. So obviously vaccinations are always minimized. If they should be minimized than I'd rather get less than more. I should qualify this by mentioning that I live alone and lead a rather solitary life, socializing with others only outside, socially distanced. I also take particular care when around older people in places like food stores, holding my breath (not inhaling or exhaling) when passing them as they're far more vulnerable.

For most people that have to work around others and live with others and have been exposed to immune system reducing things like antibiotics, its a very different situation. For them the vaccine is most definitely the right choice and should be welcomed. And this is the vast majority of the population.
Deal Guru
May 9, 2007
13752 posts
4114 upvotes
Vancouver Island, BC
MichaelZZZ wrote: > Another “one way to Mexico” thread by the OP for a situation that only pertains to himself

You don't think a mandatory vaccine and its implications will affect people vacationing in Mexico or any other country?

A lot of us are not anti-vaccine per say. We just want to wait a little longer to see more data.

Also as the virus mutates new vaccines may be more effective. As your enemy changes your battle plan changes, right?

A vaccine is a drug and drugs have side effects. Even an Aspirin has side effects and they're not good. So obviously vaccinations are always minimized. If they should be minimized than I'd rather get less than more. I should qualify this by mentioning that I live alone and lead a rather solitary life, socializing with others only outside, socially distanced. I also take particular care when around older people in places like food stores, holding my breath (not inhaling or exhaling) when passing them as they're far more vulnerable.

For most people that have to work around others and live with others and have been exposed to immune system reducing things like antibiotics, its a very different situation. For them the vaccine is most definitely the right choice and should be welcomed. And this is the vast majority of the population.
Sigh, I was going to provide a reasoned response to this, but this is not the right forum and I’m tired of wasting electrons anyway.
Global warming will be exceeded during the 21st century unless deep reductions in carbon dioxide (CO2) and other greenhouse gas emissions occur (United Nations IPCC Report 2021)

Every disaster film starts with scientists being ignored

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