Automotive

Market Research - EV Quick Charging stations for home?

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[OP]
Newbie
Feb 21, 2009
66 posts

Market Research - EV Quick Charging stations for home?

Hi everyone,

I am doing a market research on EV quick charging. Stats show more than 80% people charge at home or at work and usually use level 2 chargers. Level2 charging time can vary from 4.5 to 6 hours to fully charge.
1. Wouldn’t EVs be more fun to drive if charging time could be reduced to say max 1 hour?
2. If so how would it change your EV usage behavior?
3. If this technology is Plug&Play ie: works on 120V without any installation fee (similar to portable AC) and can reduce charging to 1 hour. How much would you pay?
4. What is your max budget for a charger?

Side Note:
I am affiliated with RIC (Xerox Research Centre), Ryerson CUE and DMZ. We are a startup and our goal is to resolve the charging technology barrier to make driving Electric Vehicles more meaningful, fun and exciting. I would really like some honest, unbiased opinion to help us achieve our goal.

This product is REAL and we are going through development phase. I would be excited to give a demo to anyone interested (in future). We are now looking for EV owners to sign up for Beta units for feedback.

Compatible EVs: All EVs with CHAdeMO charging capability only.

I think low cost Quick chargers installed in public places and may help with more EV adoption, but what do you think?
If there is per usage fee, how much would be reasonable?

Thanks everyone
21 replies
Moderator
User avatar
Sep 21, 2004
10449 posts
4730 upvotes
Calgary
axex12 wrote: Hi everyone,

I am doing a market research on EV quick charging. Stats show more than 80% people charge at home or at work and usually use level 2 chargers. Level2 charging time can vary from 4.5 to 6 hours to fully charge.
1. Wouldn’t EVs be more fun to drive if charging time could be reduced to say max 1 hour?
2. If so how would it change your EV usage behavior?
3. If this technology is Plug&Play ie: works on 120V without any installation fee (similar to portable AC) and can reduce charging to 1 hour. How much would you pay?
4. What is your max budget for a charger?

Side Note:
I am affiliated with RIC (Xerox Research Centre), Ryerson CUE and DMZ. We are a startup and our goal is to resolve the charging technology barrier to make driving Electric Vehicles more meaningful, fun and exciting. I would really like some honest, unbiased opinion to help us achieve our goal.

This product is REAL and we are going through development phase. I would be excited to give a demo to anyone interested (in future). We are now looking for EV owners to sign up for Beta units for feedback.

Compatible EVs: All EVs with CHAdeMO charging capability only.

I think low cost Quick chargers installed in public places and may help with more EV adoption, but what do you think?
If there is per usage fee, how much would be reasonable?

Thanks everyone
1) Isn't that what CHAdeMO and Supercharger is doing? Of course one hour is great but as long as it gives a full tank after one night of charging then it is good.

2) like charging a smartphone, I wouldn't change my behavior as long as it gives full tank every morning.

3) it is not realistic but probably a couple thousand dollars.

4) $2,000.

As for pay per use charger rate, probably $10 for 30kWh, or $5 per hour.
Deal Addict
Jan 27, 2011
2506 posts
1652 upvotes
Toronto
axex12 wrote: Hi everyone,

I am doing a market research on EV quick charging. Stats show more than 80% people charge at home or at work and usually use level 2 chargers. Level2 charging time can vary from 4.5 to 6 hours to fully charge.
1. Wouldn’t EVs be more fun to drive if charging time could be reduced to say max 1 hour?
2. If so how would it change your EV usage behavior?
3. If this technology is Plug&Play ie: works on 120V without any installation fee (similar to portable AC) and can reduce charging to 1 hour. How much would you pay?
4. What is your max budget for a charger?

Side Note:
I am affiliated with RIC (Xerox Research Centre), Ryerson CUE and DMZ. We are a startup and our goal is to resolve the charging technology barrier to make driving Electric Vehicles more meaningful, fun and exciting. I would really like some honest, unbiased opinion to help us achieve our goal.

This product is REAL and we are going through development phase. I would be excited to give a demo to anyone interested (in future). We are now looking for EV owners to sign up for Beta units for feedback.

Compatible EVs: All EVs with CHAdeMO charging capability only.

I think low cost Quick chargers installed in public places and may help with more EV adoption, but what do you think?
If there is per usage fee, how much would be reasonable?

Thanks everyone
Ok I'll bite.

1. Yes
2. It wouldn't
3. If you can make that for the price of an L2 home charger or less, you'll have EV owners lining up forcing you to take their $$$!
4. See #3!

What the province needs is more QC outside the GTA, so that current EV can have that extended range. Usually when people drive into T.O. they're coming in to work. They don't really need a QC. They can use the L2's and have a fully charged car when they are ready to head home. If they're not working, Then they're hear to shop and usually for several hours. Again enough time to use L2's and go home.

If I wanted to drive to Niagara Falls from Pickering, There is one QC I can use in Mississauga to quickly top off for 1/2hr but none the rest of the way. It would be nice to have one in St. Catharines for another 1/2hr top off before enjoy the day at the falls. Then again if your product is portable and can use regular 120v outlet to quickly charge....

What I would like to see in the future is, to have some sort of power supply / re-charger built into our highways so that EV's can take advantage of using power off the grid wirelessly while travelling on them. Saving the car batteries when you're on local roads. Don't we have wireless charging for cell phs already? It can also be used to help in the winter by melting the snow when placed under the pavement. It may also help the pavement last longer, so less frequent re-paving.

As for the pay per use fee, I think the province does not allow companies to charge for electricity. I think some charging companies have a fee to be a member to use their charging sites, but 90% of the public chargers are FREE! Yes, some are in parking lots in down town T.O. but you're paying for parking and the charging is free. At less the ones I've used so far.

I wouldn't mind beta testing to help your group out, so let me know when the time comes.

Good Luck!
Deal Fanatic
Oct 26, 2008
6303 posts
1947 upvotes
BC
EV QC stations at home is an answer to a question that is not being widely asked.

As you said yourself :
axex12 wrote: I think low cost Quick chargers installed in public places and may help with more EV adoption, but what do you think?
Those public places need to be out on the inter-city highways, not at shopping malls dotted throughout the GTA.

Even in the Bay Area which is the core of EV ownership, there is not a lot of demand (or supply) of 1-hour full-charge stations, and the metered rate is typically $12.

Current EV owners seem to enjoy the thrill of the hunt for economic charging, both at home and away, and it's just the range anxiety on that special trip to pastures new that bothers them.

Whether it's advances in battery technology or public charging networks doesn't really matter. If you think you are on to part of the solution, you deserve encouragement.

But always keep the bigger picture in mind.

Update: I see some1not beat me to it with what I was expressing.
Deal Addict
Dec 19, 2013
1274 posts
258 upvotes
North Vancouver
1. If the application is only at home, then it wouldn't be more fun. The car is gonna be charged every night anyways. Doesn't matter if it's 1 hour or 8 hours, it's gonna be full charge the next morning.
2. Which means I won't be changing my behaviour, car gets charged anyways. I might even be more inclined to use level 2 chargers since it might put less strain on the battery than having it charged to 100% in an hour and then let it sit plugged in for 7 more hours at full charge.
3. With the reasons above, I probably won't spend more than what a level 2 charger cost. Probably $500-1000
4. Max: $2000

Your application will probably be better in public places like malls, parking lots, rest areas, etc. I don't really see a lot of uses for home. Maybe for people who suddenly need a quick charge like truck drivers, delivery, home improvement services.
Deal Expert
Mar 23, 2009
18404 posts
4762 upvotes
Toronto
Yeah, $2000 seems reasonable, if feasible.

Mind you, it's kinda moot for me, since I drive a Plug-in Prius. The current model charges in 2.5 hours anyway just on 120 V. It's 1.5 hours on 240 V. The reason is because the battery is very small, comparatively speaking. Also, it doesn't do quick charges.
Deal Fanatic
Apr 20, 2011
7747 posts
2700 upvotes
ON
A home quick charge just cannot happen.
Most people do not have the available amperage to support charging faster than a mid-range 40A(32A usable) EVSE
They would need 200A service, and 100A of that dedicated to the DCFC.
So that's only 24kW @ 240V, but you said 120V, so 12kW
Or about two hours for a leaf.

It's just not worth it for a home environment. The vast majority charge at home overnight. Any sort of top off would be brief to get a small amount of range to go to a local store, or at a commercial chademo that can provide 50+ kW with ease.

Add in TOU and it isn't helping.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
25188 posts
3098 upvotes
Montreal
If you read the leaf manual, it clearly states that quick charge will actually wear out the battery and it should be avoided. Not ready for prime time.
Deal Expert
Jan 15, 2006
15316 posts
12772 upvotes
Richmond Hill
With current battery tech non of them liked to be charged like that. Anything above 2C and degradation will occur.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 23, 2004
2110 posts
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Montreal
Something just doesn't add up here...

You say you want to sell a quick charger that will charge the car's battery in 1 hour and that it will only use a standard 120V outlet.

Let's say you have 120V at 12A. P = V I. P = 120 * 12 = 1440W

That power will not charge a car battery in one hour... A Nissan Leaf is 24kWh.

How do you create energy?
Sr. Member
Apr 18, 2010
578 posts
91 upvotes
"Stats show more than 80% people charge at home or at work":
I'm just wondering where the other 20% are charging? Surely 20% of owners aren't charging at highway chargers?
Deal Fanatic
Oct 26, 2008
6303 posts
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BC
fredf wrote: .......Surely 20% of owners aren't charging at highway chargers?
No, that 20% would include those who routinely take advantage of an overnight charge at free charging stations located close to their home, such as at malls, recreation centres, golf courses, dealerships, town halls.

Depends what city we are talking about, of course, but in some the opportunity exists. I doubt it does in most of GTA.
Deal Addict
Mar 30, 2010
2847 posts
1154 upvotes
GTA
AMD wrote: Something just doesn't add up here...

You say you want to sell a quick charger that will charge the car's battery in 1 hour and that it will only use a standard 120V outlet.

Let's say you have 120V at 12A. P = V I. P = 120 * 12 = 1440W

That power will not charge a car battery in one hour... A Nissan Leaf is 24kWh.

How do you create energy?
Good question - maybe the solution involves batteries of it's own to charge the car's batteries quicker...
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Jul 23, 2004
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Viperoni wrote: Good question - maybe the solution involves batteries of it's own to charge the car's batteries quicker...
Could be, but considering the current cost of batteries (the principal factor impeding wide distribution of EVs), that charger would be cost prohibitive and very big and heavy!
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Sep 21, 2004
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AMD wrote: Could be, but considering the current cost of batteries (the principal factor impeding wide distribution of EVs), that charger would be cost prohibitive and very big and heavy!
So using a Tesla Powerwall to charge another battery? A 7kWh Powerwall cost $3,000 so it is not realistic to use it to charge an EV. You are correct sir.

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