Automotive

[Merged] Ask me anything about TORONTO Parking Tickets

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Dec 6, 2007
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So yesterday we got a $450 ticket for parking in a Handicap Loazing Zone for 10 minutes while I was dropping my grandfather in to the building...we were in his car and the handicap sign was clearly displayed...am I missing something here? Why did we get a ticket and how can I fight this?

Thanks!
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Jul 26, 2009
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kuzi wrote: So yesterday we got a $450 ticket for parking in a Handicap Loazing Zone for 10 minutes while I was dropping my grandfather in to the building...we were in his car and the handicap sign was clearly displayed...am I missing something here? Why did we get a ticket and how can I fight this?

Thanks!

If it was a "Handicap" Loading Zone as you say, it doesn't matter that your vehicle had a valid Accessible Parking permit displayed. I am guessing that the actual full charge on the ticket is Code 361 "Park Vehicle in Disabled Persons Loading Zone While Not Boarding or Discharging Permit Holder". Those spaces are meant to only be used to immediately let passengers in and out of the vehicle. It isn't a regular Accessible Parking space so you can't leave the vehicle there unattended for any reason, even though your passenger is a valid permit holder. By your own admission you were away from the vehicle for 10 minutes which is clearly not "immediate".
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Jul 21, 2009
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when i have a valid handicap permit displayed, is it true i am exempt from paying parking meter fees(downtown)? what about private parking lot fees (school parking lots)?
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submarine wrote: when i have a valid handicap permit displayed, is it true i am exempt from paying parking meter fees(downtown)? what about private parking lot fees (school parking lots)?

On public streets in Toronto vehicles displaying a valid Accessible Parking permit do not have to pay at metered parking spaces or pay & display spaces. On private parking lots that same vehicle is subject to the same level of enforcement as any other vehicle and must pay any applicable fees even if it's in a proper AP space.
Jr. Member
Jan 4, 2009
118 posts
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Toronto
kuzi wrote: So yesterday we got a $450 ticket for parking in a Handicap Loazing Zone for 10 minutes while I was dropping my grandfather in to the building...we were in his car and the handicap sign was clearly displayed...am I missing something here? Why did we get a ticket and how can I fight this?
If you want to fight it go to the Parking Tag office and request a trial. I'd recommend requesting a trial since the chances are good you could end up paying a reduced fine rather than the full amount. It depends on whether the money you save is worth the time to you that you'll need to spend taking all these steps: going to the parking tag office, attending the trial, etc. With the amount of your fine you'll likely get a trial within a year or sooner.

When you arrive at the trial the Prosecutor will likely offer you a deal: a reduced fine in exchange for a guilty plea. The amount of the reduced fine will vary. I've seen it be as low as 30% of the original fine but there are no guarantees of what the reduction will be.

You can then decide if you want to accept that deal or continue on with the trial and fight it. If you decide to go to trial but are found guilty you'll need to pay the fine. But you can always ask the Justice of the Peace
for a reduced fine based on the circumstances. For example, if any of these apply you could tell the JOP:

- Your grandfather has poor health and for his safety you had to accompany him rather than just dropping him off and letting him walk in alone
- If your grandfather has a limited income, explain that the amount of the fine will pose a financial hardship for him.

And for these reasons would the JOP kindly consider reducing the fine further based on the circumstances. Be respectful when asking and the JOP may take your request into consideration and give you/your grandfather a reduction. The guilty charge may remain but at least you could see your fine reduced to a lesser amount.
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Oct 21, 2009
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The information you give out and help other people on here is actually useful and informative from a law standpoint. This is a good thing, though why do you sometimes have to ruin the effect by giving some people attitude?

I know you say you don't care what people think about you and what they say, and you also said that many people lash out at you because they don't hear the answer they want. But you're not seeing the whole picture or not understanding.

First, you should care about what people think about you, you represent a subset of the police force, regardless if it's just parking enforcement. Instead of letting the stereotype define who you are, which you seem to either perpetuate or don't care, why don't you give a positive spin on things?

I really don't know about parking and laws and the types of people they employ in police department and their personalities. But from what I've seen from your posts, you don't like to "go around" and help people fight valid parking infractions. Like those x-copper or ticket fighters.

I understand you did say this thread is about "ask me anything about parking tickets" and not "How to get out of a legitimate ticket". But why do you have you lash out and give attitude against people who ask that? They, like everyone else in this world, don't want pay for things they don't have to. Yes they may have been wrong but they are just asking if there's any leverage or information you can use, some technicality, to help them. What's wrong with that? Or why are you so against any deviation to the topic that you'll only give information out rather than how to bypass the system.

Or... if you don't wish to help people out that way, why not just say "Sorry, you got a legitimate ticket and there's no way to fight it" or something similar, why give them attitude that people expect and stereotype about police/authority figures?

That guy who responded to you, he was right that you like to show some superiority or attitude to people like that, why not just be nice? I really don't understand. These people "lash out" at you because you act like this to them.. So what if they are wrong, let JoP deal with it or the system. As you said, enforcement officers have no way to debate or null a ticket right? So why are you doing that now?

Last thing, can you once see things in different people's view instead of just a medium channel for the law? You always cite law as 100% non-refutable. I'm sure legally it is most of the time, but we are human aren't we? There is something called empathy and different situations merit different responses, and most of the time you've shown you're not compassionate on anyone's side but the law.
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FlashEngineer wrote: The information you give out and help other people on here is actually useful and informative from a law standpoint. This is a good thing, though why do you sometimes have to ruin the effect by giving some people attitude?
I only give attitude when I get it first. Otherwise my responses are very straightforward and to the point. I'm not here to hold people's hands to make them feel better.
FlashEngineer wrote: I know you say you don't care what people think about you and what they say, and you also said that many people lash out at you because they don't hear the answer they want. But you're not seeing the whole picture or not understanding.
I don't care what people think of me here. However your characterization of "many people" lashing out at me is not accurate. It is actually a very small but vocal group of self-centred RFD members who have a general problem with law enforcement when they are inconvenienced by us. Otherwise I have found a tremendous amount of support from RFDer's and my posts.
FlashEngineer wrote: First, you should care about what people think about you, you represent a subset of the police force, regardless if it's just parking enforcement. Instead of letting the stereotype define who you are, which you seem to either perpetuate or don't care, why don't you give a positive spin on things?
No, I do not represent the police in any capacity. I am not an employee of any police service. Here I represent myself and that is it. When I am here I am not held to a higher standard than any other RFD member, I am permitted to express myself in any manner I choose. When I am at work I represent the City and I conduct myself accordingly. Stereotypes are exactly that, stereotypes and anybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that they do not represent the reality of the whole. Anybody who buys into them are people I probably wouldn't be able to convince otherwise so why would I waste my time and energy trying?
FlashEngineer wrote: I really don't know about parking and laws and the types of people they employ in police department and their personalities. But from what I've seen from your posts, you don't like to "go around" and help people fight valid parking infractions. Like those x-copper or ticket fighters.
It isn't my job to help people fight tickets and I have made that very clear right from the beginning here on RFD. I have on many occasions advised people both on the forum and in the many PM's I've received to consult a paralegal or a lawyer. And FYI, ex-officers who go to work for paralegal firms are not regarded very highly in active law enforcement circles. In fact they are looked upon as traitors to their brothers and sisters in LE. Why would I voluntarily subject myself to that stigma from my co-workers? Not to mention the fact that it would be a violation of my personal and professional ethics to undermine the work done by my fellow officers and help people escape the consequences of their actions.
FlashEngineer wrote: I understand you did say this thread is about "ask me anything about parking tickets" and not "How to get out of a legitimate ticket". But why do you have you lash out and give attitude against people who ask that? They, like everyone else in this world, don't want pay for things they don't have to. Yes they may have been wrong but they are just asking if there's any leverage or information you can use, some technicality, to help them. What's wrong with that? Or why are you so against any deviation to the topic that you'll only give information out rather than how to bypass the system.


As I have stated before, I respond to what I get. Sometimes people say such stupid or offensive things that I reply with "colourful" language but so what? If all somebody is asking is how to fight a ticket, it is often apparent that they didn't understand why they were ticketed in the first place and so I tell them. Most people are grateful for the clarification and move on. Others post back with things like "the law is stupid" or "the meter maid was an idiot" or some other nonsense. If they do that I am going to respond as is my right to do so.
FlashEngineer wrote: Or... if you don't wish to help people out that way, why not just say "Sorry, you got a legitimate ticket and there's no way to fight it" or something similar, why give them attitude that people expect and stereotype about police/authority figures?
That's pretty much what I do. Some people just don't want to accept that and then their imagination starts replacing the reality. Where do you think all those "meter maids gotta meet quota" remarks come from. They don't come from me. They come from people who are not willing to accept the consequences for their actions so they rationalize their situation by blaming us for what happened.
FlashEngineer wrote: That guy who responded to you, he was right that you like to show some superiority or attitude to people like that, why not just be nice? I really don't understand. These people "lash out" at you because you act like this to them.. So what if they are wrong, let JoP deal with it or the system. As you said, enforcement officers have no way to debate or null a ticket right? So why are you doing that now?
No, I act like this because they start it. I just finish it. Who said they have no way to "debate or null a ticket"? I have never said those words ever. This is part of the problem, people speak in an imprecise manner and read into others remarks what they want to hear. In Toronto, parking enforcement officers in the field do not have the authority to cancel parking tickets. Period. How does that relate to what I am posting on an internet message board? Try to stay on point, please.
FlashEngineer wrote: Last thing, can you once see things in different people's view instead of just a medium channel for the law? You always cite law as 100% non-refutable. I'm sure legally it is most of the time, but we are human aren't we? There is something called empathy and different situations merit different responses, and most of the time you've shown you're not compassionate on anyone's side but the law.

My only intention here is to provide the best, most accurate, factual information about parking tickets, the enforcement process and to a certain degree the courts. When people come on here with questions I just cite the law and how it relates to their circumstances because that's all I really can do. I save the empathy for when I am in the field and can make first hand observations that determine if a ticket is warranted or not. I am not a robot that just goes around ticketing everything in sight. I let people off the hook every single shift I work. I look at the totality of the situation before making a decision on how to proceed. I can't do that on RFD because I only have one side of the story, usually a biased one, and very little else to go on. I stick with the law because that is the only truly appropriate way to respond. Unfortunately sometimes people are not looking for answers, they are looking for somebody to take their side and little else.
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Nele wrote: I just got a ticket for the above stated reasons and was wandering what would be the best approach in court?

Received it at Cherry beach under the following circumstances:

Got there with my family around 3pm. It was a mess, cars everywhere, at least 50 parked on grass under no parking signs. A guy was getting out and I just pulled into his spot. It was obviously on grass as most of other cars and visible from the street. Came back around 6pm and found a greeting on the windshield. All cars around me were gone. I think they all bailed when they saw the cop. Curious to notice that one entire line of cars, illegally parked as well, but sort of on the inner side of the lot avoided ticketing. This is really annoying as I would never have parked there if I did not see so many cars the same way. And the damage is $105 too.

Any advice much appreciated.

Cheers
Fox1971 wrote: So let me see if I understand you correctly. You arrived at the beach, saw that there were no legal parking spaces available and like a lemming you decided to park somewhere you knew wasn't legal just because a bunch of other people already did it. Right so far? So now you have a ticket and you are trying to find a way to weasel your way out of it. The cars that were gone when you came back probably did get tickets, they just left before you did so how would you know if they left before parking enforcement arrived on the scene? The cars that didn't have tickets were obviously not illegally parked or they would have been tagged right along with your car. My advice to you is to not concern yourself why other why people's cars were or were not ticketed and worry about your own actions. You parked your car yourself, nobody forced you to do it so grow up, stop whining and accept responsibility for your actions. You have nobody to blame but yourself. :rolleyes:


Good answers, but maybe I'm just easily affected by things or just see things differently. Right here is the type of response I'm talking about that's unnecessary. You could have just said "You were illegally parked, therefore given a ticket, there's nothing else you can do but plead guilty and ask nicely for a lesser fine"

Why did you have to antagonize the person, just because he's trying to weasel out on the ticket? So let him try, if you truly believe the system will prevent most people from successfully winning in these cases. Why do you care so much, again who are you to be a judge or enforcer on these forums as you said you don't represent the police, and only yourself, so you're not held to a higher standard. In his mind, he may feel right and who are you to dispute that? That's for the court system to decide.

That's another thing I have going for the law, it feels like it's guilty before proven innocent. I only know that speeding has something like this, about if you speed, you're already guilty.
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Fox1971 wrote: I only give attitude when I get it first. Otherwise my responses are very straightforward and to the point. I'm not here to hold people's hands to make them feel better.
See my previous post; Yes you don't have to hold hands, but you give judgement and attitude in the previous post to that person. He asked nicely, he didn't attack you at all, again so what if he asked to weasel out, who gives a ****?
No, I do not represent the police in any capacity. I am not an employee of any police service. Here I represent myself and that is it. When I am here I am not held to a higher standard than any other RFD member, I am permitted to express myself in any manner I choose. When I am at work I represent the City and I conduct myself accordingly. Stereotypes are exactly that, stereotypes and anybody with an ounce of intelligence knows that they do not represent the reality of the whole. Anybody who buys into them are people I probably wouldn't be able to convince otherwise so why would I waste my time and energy trying?
So express your manner in a more less antagonistic way. You haven't heard the saying "If you have nothing good to say, don't say it"

And about stereotypes, sure that it what it is, but you can't deny the certain occupations usually has people employed with a certain personality. Example is my wife, she is a dentist, most dentists have a Type-A personality. Google it if you don't understand. I'm sure there are some personalities that are more common with police officers.
It isn't my job to help people fight tickets and I have made that very clear right from the beginning here on RFD. I have on many occasions advised people both on the forum and in the many PM's I've received to consult a paralegal or a lawyer. And FYI, ex-officers who go to work for paralegal firms are not regarded very highly in active law enforcement circles. In fact they are looked upon as traitors to their brothers and sisters in LE. Why would I voluntarily subject myself to that stigma from my co-workers? Not to mention the fact that it would be a violation of my personal and professional ethics to undermine the work done by my fellow officers and help people escape the consequences of their actions.
It's my turn to say, "I don't care". I don't care if you guys frown on ex-officers doing these services. I don't care about personal ethics, that's your own thing, just like religion/politics. Don't help then, but don't bash on people for being slimeballs/douches.

No, I act like this because they start it. I just finish it. Who said they have no way to "debate or null a ticket"? I have never said those words ever. This is part of the problem, people speak in an imprecise manner and read into others remarks what they want to hear. In Toronto, parking enforcement officers in the field do not have the authority to cancel parking tickets. Period. How does that relate to what I am posting on an internet message board? Try to stay on point, please.
Again, that guy did not start ****, all he did was ask how to weasel out of a ticket in a nice way, so don't respond to him if you don't like his question. I mean, why do you try to delegate judgement on people in these forums yet you can't cancel a simple ticket once its' written? You tell people to take it to the courts to deal with it but here you deal your own justice in your own way.

My only intention here is to provide the best, most accurate, factual information about parking tickets, the enforcement process and to a certain degree the courts. When people come on here with questions I just cite the law and how it relates to their circumstances because that's all I really can do. I save the empathy for when I am in the field and can make first hand observations that determine if a ticket is warranted or not. I am not a robot that just goes around ticketing everything in sight. I let people off the hook every single shift I work. I look at the totality of the situation before making a decision on how to proceed. I can't do that on RFD because I only have one side of the story, usually a biased one, and very little else to go on. I stick with the law because that is the only truly appropriate way to respond. Unfortunately sometimes people are not looking for answers, they are looking for somebody to take their side and little else.


Why do you have to be so selective again? Do you know how it feels to people when they get a ticket? Or some people's situations? At least on here, you can understand from their view, regardless if it's bias and make them understand what's going on in your end to be giving such a ticket.
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Jul 5, 2006
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FlashEngineer wrote: Good answers, but maybe I'm just easily affected by things or just see things differently. Right here is the type of response I'm talking about that's unnecessary. You could have just said "You were illegally parked, therefore given a ticket, there's nothing else you can do but plead guilty and ask nicely for a lesser fine"

Why did you have to antagonize the person, just because he's trying to weasel out on the ticket? So let him try, if you truly believe the system will prevent most people from successfully winning in these cases. Why do you care so much, again who are you to be a judge or enforcer on these forums as you said you don't represent the police, and only yourself, so you're not held to a higher standard. In his mind, he may feel right and who are you to dispute that? That's for the court system to decide.

That's another thing I have going for the law, it feels like it's guilty before proven innocent. I only know that speeding has something like this, about if you speed, you're already guilty.

2 words - Power Trip.

To OP: Are you guilty? Hmm... maybe, maybe not. That's not a judgment any of us could make here based on the facts (or non facts). So why don't you request a trial and make them prove it to the judge that you are? Worry about how to deal with it later if/when the eventuality comes because there is no need to think about things that might or might not happen.
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FlashEngineer wrote: Good answers, but maybe I'm just easily affected by things or just see things differently. Right here is the type of response I'm talking about that's unnecessary. You could have just said "You were illegally parked, therefore given a ticket, there's nothing else you can do but plead guilty and ask nicely for a lesser fine"
In your opinion it may have been unnecessary or antagonistic. That post was unique and in my opinion in the sense that that most of the time people don't understand why they were ticketed. That was not the case with this guy. He was fully aware that what he was doing was against the law and he still had the nerve to complain about it and try to worm his way out of the consequences. Those kinds of people do not deserve to be treated with anything other than contempt. They are the ones who are bad neighbours, obnoxious customers, are generally self-centered and make life for the rest of at best inconvenient and at worst a living hell. Despite his "polite" request for help his actions and attitude about the situation was disrespectful to everybody whether they realize it or not.
FlashEngineer wrote: Why did you have to antagonize the person, just because he's trying to weasel out on the ticket? So let him try, if you truly believe the system will prevent most people from successfully winning in these cases. Why do you care so much, again who are you to be a judge or enforcer on these forums as you said you don't represent the police, and only yourself, so you're not held to a higher standard. In his mind, he may feel right and who are you to dispute that? That's for the court system to decide.


I said what I did because his post was offensive to me. It's a simple as that. I am not passing judgment on the ticket, that is black and white. I responded because I was offended that somebody would deliberately break the law and then have the nerve to try and get out of trouble. I can express my feelings about that in any way I choose.
FlashEngineer wrote: That's another thing I have going for the law, it feels like it's guilty before proven innocent. I only know that speeding has something like this, about if you speed, you're already guilty.
I just lay the charge, the court decides if you are guilty or not.
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Fox1971 wrote: In your opinion it may have been unnecessary or antagonistic. That post was unique and in my opinion in the sense that that most of the time people don't understand why they were ticketed. That was not the case with this guy. He was fully aware that what he was doing was against the law and he still had the nerve to complain about it and try to worm his way out of the consequences. Those kinds of people do not deserve to be treated with anything other than contempt. They are the ones who are bad neighbours, obnoxious customers, are generally self-centered and make life for the rest of at best inconvenient and at worst a living hell. Despite his "polite" request for help his actions and attitude about the situation was disrespectful to everybody whether they realize it or not.



I said what I did because his post was offensive to me. It's a simple as that. I am not passing judgment on the ticket, that is black and white. I responded because I was offended that somebody would deliberately break the law and then have the nerve to try and get out of trouble. I can express my feelings about that in any way I choose.



I just lay the charge, the court decides if you are guilty or not.

So tell me, what makes you a person to decide to pass judgement on that guy, are you god now? Or is it because you have police background so that makes you an expert on psychology? How do you know he's a bad neighbour, obnoxious, rude, whatever, you just jump to conclusions. You don't know the person outside of a single post about a stupid, yes STUPID parking ticket. It's not the end of the world for him, and it shouldn't be for you.

Bottom line, I don't understand how you see fit to pass judgement on PEOPLE themselves and why you have to do it at all, again I stress, is it because of your police background, because most people just ignore ignorant folks like that guy.
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To also add,

How is what he did disrespectful, you mean parking in whatever that grass area? Or you mean his post? I'm pretty sure most people aren't offended by his worming out when he knew (or not knew) he parked illegally.

Either way, I think you really take too much into thinking, again I claim no expert on parking and rules but from a regular person viewing parking, is more of a inconvenience than anything, it's not going to self-destruct the universe because a bunch of people parked on a grass lot. Whatever, who cares. I don't know and I probably won't ever, understand why such a incidence that guy did, is such a big deal.

It would make more sense if he parked in the middle of Bloor and Yonge intersection and got out to go buy something. That'll cause problems.

Just because a law is there, doesn't mean it's always right. I'll say it again.
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FlashEngineer wrote: See my previous post; Yes you don't have to hold hands, but you give judgement and attitude in the previous post to that person. He asked nicely, he didn't attack you at all, again so what if he asked to weasel out, who gives a ****?
I could ask you the same thing? Why do you give a **** about how I respond to other posters?
FlashEngineer wrote: So express your manner in a more less antagonistic way. You haven't heard the saying "If you have nothing good to say, don't say it"
Did somebody die and make you a moderator?
FlashEngineer wrote: And about stereotypes, sure that it what it is, but you can't deny the certain occupations usually has people employed with a certain personality. Example is my wife, she is a dentist, most dentists have a Type-A personality. Google it if you don't understand. I'm sure there are some personalities that are more common with police officers.
What does that have to do with how I respond to posts that I find offensive?
FlashEngineer wrote: It's my turn to say, "I don't care". I don't care if you guys frown on ex-officers doing these services. I don't care about personal ethics, that's your own thing, just like religion/politics. Don't help then, but don't bash on people for being slimeballs/douches.
You don't care about personal ethics? I pity anybody you conduct business with. I do have ethics, both personal and professional and they guide my actions at all times. Most other people do as well. Standing up and pointing out unethical behaviour and attitudes is the complete opposite of unethical. That is what I do here sometimes. I was raised to be honest, considerate of others and to make noise when somebody is doing something wrong. Apparently you were not since you are more concerned with my perceived rudeness to somebody who is acting in an unethical manner than the unethical behavior itself.
FlashEngineer wrote: Again, that guy did not start ****, all he did was ask how to weasel out of a ticket in a nice way, so don't respond to him if you don't like his question. I mean, why do you try to delegate judgement on people in these forums yet you can't cancel a simple ticket once its' written? You tell people to take it to the courts to deal with it but here you deal your own justice in your own way.
I'll respond to him and anybody else in any manner that I feel is appropriate. There are no consequences to me chewing somebody out here so your comparison to me dealing "justice" is not relevant.
FlashEngineer wrote: Why do you have to be so selective again? Do you know how it feels to people when they get a ticket? Or some people's situations? At least on here, you can understand from their view, regardless if it's bias and make them understand what's going on in your end to be giving such a ticket.
I can be as selective as I choose here. What makes you the arbiter of what is appropriate for me to feel or understand? If people don't agree with the charges, they are free to dispute the matter in court just like anybody else.
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FlashEngineer wrote: To also add,

How is what he did disrespectful, you mean parking in whatever that grass area? Or you mean his post? I'm pretty sure most people aren't offended by his worming out when he knew (or not knew) he parked illegally.

Either way, I think you really take too much into thinking, again I claim no expert on parking and rules but from a regular person viewing parking, is more of a inconvenience than anything, it's not going to self-destruct the universe because a bunch of people parked on a grass lot. Whatever, who cares. I don't know and I probably won't ever, understand why such a incidence that guy did, is such a big deal.

It would make more sense if he parked in the middle of Bloor and Yonge intersection and got out to go buy something. That'll cause problems.

Just because a law is there, doesn't mean it's always right. I'll say it again.

I already explained my position. I'm not going to keep repeating myself because you lack the basic reading comprehension skills to get it.
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FlashEngineer wrote: So tell me, what makes you a person to decide to pass judgement on that guy, are you god now? Or is it because you have police background so that makes you an expert on psychology? How do you know he's a bad neighbour, obnoxious, rude, whatever, you just jump to conclusions. You don't know the person outside of a single post about a stupid, yes STUPID parking ticket. It's not the end of the world for him, and it shouldn't be for you.

Bottom line, I don't understand how you see fit to pass judgement on PEOPLE themselves and why you have to do it at all, again I stress, is it because of your police background, because most people just ignore ignorant folks like that guy.

See my previous response.
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Fox1971 wrote: You don't care about personal ethics? I pity anybody you conduct business with. I do have ethics, both personal and professional and they guide my actions at all times. Most other people do as well. Standing up and pointing out unethical behaviour and attitudes is the complete opposite of unethical. That is what I do here sometimes. I was raised to be honest, considerate of others and to make noise when somebody is doing something wrong. Apparently you were not since you are more concerned with my perceived rudeness to somebody who is acting in an unethical manner than the unethical behavior itself.

Finally, this is what I am talking about, Standing up and pointing out unethical behaviour and attitudes. Generally it is good and ethical, I never said it wasn't, and you're talking about my reading comprehensions.

But for cases like PARKING, god forbid, it's such a horrible thing, it's equal to murder. Come on, it's just a parking violation. Not even a moving one.

I don't care about YOUR personal ethics. What you do with your own beliefs and time and religion is your own issues.

Again you keep going on and on passing judgement and assuming you know everyone here, including me by just a few posts. Why don't you meet me and see who I am in person before you pass your godly judgement on people.

The main thing was pretty much, why you made noise for over such a small thing, regardless it's "wrong" or "unethical". Everyone lies, everybody does what that guy does in their life time at least over a dozen times. And it's just parking.
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Apr 15, 2006
1216 posts
1111 upvotes
5dark wrote: I hope you're not implying it's a black and white situation

I could see some forum posters defending letting the house burn down because that's the law currently on the books.

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