Automotive

[Merged] Ask me anything about TORONTO Parking Tickets

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Jul 26, 2009
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submalst wrote: I got the ticket on a public road (fairholme ave). $40. (code 5)
Its a check box ticket with my car info written on top (not the ones that comes from those portable printers with the TPS PEO). But ya, its a nice yellow Parking infraction notice from the City of T.O
I was thinking that maybe they messed up because it says Contrary to (Bylaw or Code) North York..instead of Toronto..maybe luck..but ya its been 15 days..still not in the system. It sounds like I just have to keep on checking?

No they didn't mess up. Even after amalgamation there are some parking bylaws that are specific to the former City of North York. Sounds like the ticket was issued by a police officer and hand written tickets have to be entered into the system manually and that can take some time.
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pettapil wrote: Thank you!! But it's not for your reply. It's for that link. The sign has been changed! I have 5 photos (all of which I unsuccessfully tried to upload) and one of the signs in your link is different from my photos -- exact same location. (I was actually of thinking of returning to the location before our court date to rephotograph the sign --- just in case there were any changes.) So, I am going to assume that others have complained about this sign too and the city took action. If that's the case, then I believe we have a good case arguing our point.

I had a chance to swing by that location earlier today and found that you were correct. The sign had been changed since the Google picture was taken. But then I realized that you are still not off the hook. I went back and read your original post and picked up on a couple of details I missed before. There are not three signs on that post as you said but there are in fact four signs. See the link below.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Henry+Lane ... -1.37&z=16

Notice that another "No Parking" sign is posted at the top of the pole and it was still there when I checked it out today. You also stated that the ticket was issued at 1pm but there weren't any notations about time restrictions in the "Comments" box on the face of the ticket. If the "1201AM-730AM SAT-MON" time restriction was being enforced, you would have seen that specifically noted on the ticket but it wasn't otherwise you would have mentioned it in your first post. The regular "No Parking" sign is the one you were charged with violating and those signs are enforced 24/7. In order for that sign to be enforced all that is required is that 1/3 of the total length of the vehicle is in the prohibited area. I'm betting that when you arrived you parked at the end of a row of cars close to the corner. You may have even been parked next to the pole with the signs. As long as just 1/3 of your vehicle is in the prohibited area then you can be ticketed. I still say that the ticket was legitimate and you will be convicted. You should also know that the PEO may have photographed your vehicle so take that into consideration when deciding how to proceed.
Newbie
Aug 27, 2009
5 posts
Downtown Toronto
Hi, I just got a parking ticket which states that i parked in a disability parking spot without showing a disability permit. My situation is that I had the disability permit on the windshield, and I think that the parking guy made a mistake about the parking code. I was dropping off my uncle to see a movie (the disability permit is in his name), and when I came back to to my car (which isn't registered to him), the officer came up to me and asked to see my uncle because he wouldn't believe that i used it to drop him off. In the end, he ended up pushing a $450 ticket into my pocket (because I wouldn't accept it) & he kept my uncle's disability permit. I am pleading not guilty - but how should I best approach this situation?

P.S. where can I read Toronto's parking infraction laws? I can't find code 363 anywhere online - the only ones i find are about building and construction...

Thanks for any help!
Newbie
Jan 3, 2012
6 posts
PICKERING
Fox1971 wrote: I had a chance to swing by that location earlier today and found that you were correct. The sign had been changed since the Google picture was taken. But then I realized that you are still not off the hook. I went back and read your original post and picked up on a couple of details I missed before. There are not three signs on that post as you said but there are in fact four signs. See the link below.

The regular "No Parking" sign is the one you were charged with violating and those signs are enforced 24/7. In order for that sign to be enforced all that is required is that 1/3 of the total length of the vehicle is in the prohibited area. I'm betting that when you arrived you parked at the end of a row of cars close to the corner. You may have even been parked next to the pole with the signs. As long as just 1/3 of your vehicle is in the prohibited area then you can be ticketed. I still say that the ticket was legitimate and you will be convicted. You should also know that the PEO may have photographed your vehicle so take that into consideration when deciding how to proceed.
Thanks so much for checking out the sign. You're correct there is a 4th sign "no parking" with a small arrow pointing in the opposite direction of where we parked. We definitely parked far from that sign. In fact, between the sign and our car there was another car parked and that vehicle was also ticketed. The owner is a lawyer and is going to fight the ticket as well. As mentioned, I took multiple photos. I have close ups and pics showing the vehicles' location in reference to the sign. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about fighting this is that we were not attempting to break a law or get away with parking in a place where it was prohibited. We studied the sign and concluded that parking was permitted on Saturdays up until 7:30am Mondays. The city's parking/no parking signs should not be open to interpretation; in this particular case the way the information was laid out on the sign obfuscated the message.
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Jan 27, 2004
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just wondering...

I got the parking ticket on May 2011 and I submitted for trail within 15 days. I still havent received anything yet until now. I read somewhere about they should send me a letter within 75 days from the day I requested for trial. Does that mean the ticket will be dismissed or?
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Jan 4, 2009
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Toronto
This recent Toronto Star article talks about a service where they will do the legwork for you to set up a court date for your traffic/parking tickets. What caught my eye was this part:

"In response, last September the City of Toronto implemented a fixed-fine system for parking tickets to remove the incentive to fight tickets simply to get a reduced fine. Now a judge cannot reduce a fine after a guilty plea."

Can anyone confirm if this is the case? It used to be that if you requested a trial for a parking ticket and plead guilty you'd see your fine reduced. Typically for a $30 fine you'd just end up paying $10. Has this practice of the prosecutor offering a reduced fine in exchange for a guilty plea now been discontinued?

One commenter posted this but I'm not sure is what he says is correct:

"A part of the article is incorrect where it say that the Judge ( Justice of the Peace) cannot lower the fine as a law was passed so that people do not get a lower fine by pleading guilty in court. That is totally incorrect. The Presiding officer has the right to reduce or even suspend the fine at his or her discretion. Section 59 of the Provincial Offences Act allows for this. The City by-law does not supercede the POA. The public can attend a trial date, have a trial or enter a plea of guilt and get a reduced fine. The City cannot dictate to the judiciary about fines."

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/111 ... ivers?bn=1

Clogged traffic court system gives breaks to guilty drivers
Published On Fri Jan 06 2012

BRENDAN KENNEDY/TORONTO STAR
Brendan Kennedy
Staff Reporter

A middle-aged man dressed in a suit and tie surreptitiously approaches Jay Kimel-Fleishman with a tightly folded $20 bill poking out from his clenched right fist.

Kimel-Fleishman nods and the two men duck away from the crowd to make the deal in private. Kimel-Fleishman takes the man’s money and his yellow traffic tickets. He gives him his freedom.

The 33-year-old founder of FileMyTickets.com will now wait an hour in the drab Edwards St. offices of Toronto’s provincial traffic court to set the man’s court date, while the man goes on with the rest of his day.

“I’m saving people time,” says Kimel-Fleishman, a restless salesman who left his family’s business a year ago to start his online startup. “Everybody wants more time.”

Kimel-Fleishman and his company are the products of Toronto’s overloaded traffic court system, which discourages drivers from fighting tickets and then rewards them if they choose to endure the tedious process.

It’s a confusing logic: to prevent taking up court time and resources with frivolous cases, the city and province require you to set a court date in person if you want to fight the ticket, while allowing you to easily pay fines online. But, if you dutifully jump through all the hoops — even just to plead guilty at the end — you are usually rewarded with a reduced penalty.

“That’s the ridiculous nature of the system,” says Chris Conway, a former Toronto traffic cop turned paralegal and founder of Ott Legal Services.

It works this way because Toronto’s traffic courts are so overwhelmed by the number of tickets handed out, Conway says, that prosecutors are forced to plea-bargain to avoid trials.

Kimel-Fleishman exploits a flaw in the system by removing the main deterrent governments use to keep you from fighting tickets: wasting your time.

“They’re making it hard; I’m making it easy,” he says, waving the brick-sized stack of tickets he uses as an advertising prop.

Other jurisdictions don’t work this way.

“It’s definitely different outside of Toronto,” says Randy Houlahan, a paralegal and owner of Road Warriors, which specializes in traffic-ticket defence.

Plea bargains are offered everywhere, Houlahan says, but prosecutors outside of Toronto — who deal in far less volume — are in a better position to take tougher stances because the threat of trial is real.

For instance, if a driver was ticketed for going 32 km/h over the speed limit in Toronto, the four-demerit offence would probably be plea-bargained down to 15 km over and zero demerits, Houlahan said. In Whitby, the same offence is likely to be reduced no lower than 25 km over and three demerits.

“It’s defeating the whole demerit point system,” says Conway.

As to parking tickets, the city found a 450 per cent increase in trial requests in recent years, from 2.5 per cent in 2004 to 11 per cent in 2010. Sixty per cent of the people who requested trial in 2010 didn’t even show up, wasting court time and resources.

In response, last September the City of Toronto implemented a fixed-fine system for parking tickets to remove the incentive to fight tickets simply to get a reduced fine. Now a judge cannot reduce a fine after a guilty plea.

“Ultimately the court system is there for people who have a valid dispute,” says Casey Brendon, the city’s director of revenue. “You shouldn’t be using it to obtain a lesser amount for a conviction.”

But even with this week’s proposal to jack up the fines for certain parking tickets, they are relatively little hassle compared with provincial traffic tickets, which come with stiffer fines, demerit points and potentially higher insurance premiums.

Not to mention the wait times — often less than 15 minutes to set a date for a parking ticket, compared with an hour or more for traffic tickets.

The province does not keep statistics to gauge how traffic offences are resolved, but the tickets can always be negotiated at a prosecutor’s discretion.

Despite Kimel-Fleishman’s cloak-and-dagger deal-making with the man with the $20 bill, the service he provides is legal.

For $12 a traffic ticket and $7 a parking ticket, he acts as your agent by waiting in line and setting your court date for you. He has no legal training and will not attend your trial or give advice. He’s just a guy willing to wait in line.

And he says business is booming. Since launching his website in January 2011, he says he has filed more than 5,000 tickets and now employs a handful of part-time runners so he can be setting trial dates at multiple GTA courthouses on a daily basis.

On Thursday, he filed about a dozen tickets at the downtown Edwards St. office, including three people he persuaded to leave the line on the spot for cash. He actively solicited anyone at the courthouse who would listen.

“You can file those online — Filemytickets.com,” he said quietly to the people waiting for their queue ticket.

“Do you work here?” one man asks.

A day earlier, at a Tim Hortons on Yonge St., near Eglinton Ave., Kimel-Fleishman picked a seat in the coffee shop that allowed him to keep an eye on his black Infiniti illegally parked on nearby Broadway Ave.

He explained that he came up with the idea for FileMyTickets.com because he was “notorious” for accumulating tickets and despised paying for them. “I pay taxes, it should be covered.”

Minutes later, he had a clear view as a traffic cop tucked another yellow ticket under his windshield wiper.
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kiasu wrote: just wondering...

I got the parking ticket on May 2011 and I submitted for trail within 15 days. I still havent received anything yet until now. I read somewhere about they should send me a letter within 75 days from the day I requested for trial. Does that mean the ticket will be dismissed or?

No.
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chanman wrote: One commenter posted this but I'm not sure is what he says is correct:

"A part of the article is incorrect where it say that the Judge ( Justice of the Peace) cannot lower the fine as a law was passed so that people do not get a lower fine by pleading guilty in court. That is totally incorrect. The Presiding officer has the right to reduce or even suspend the fine at his or her discretion. Section 59 of the Provincial Offences Act allows for this. The City by-law does not supercede the POA. The public can attend a trial date, have a trial or enter a plea of guilt and get a reduced fine. The City cannot dictate to the judiciary about fines."

This is true. The City has no authority to dictate to Provincial Courts how to conduct their business. Another example of how the Toronto Star screws up the facts in their reporting.
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Dec 11, 2007
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I know this has probably been asked but I can't find the bylw. If a street has no signs, can you park between 2am-6am?
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umop wrote: I know this has probably been asked but I can't find the bylw. If a street has no signs, can you park between 2am-6am?

There is no catch-all answer for your question. It depends on the city and whatever other signs might be posted. Different cities or even locations within cities have different rules for overnight parking. For example in North York there is a blanket No Parking 2AM-6AM parking bylaw that doesn't apply to the other pre-amalgamation cities that now make up Toronto. Signs are not necessary on the street for the No Parking 2AM-6AM bylaw to be enforced. However there are certain signed residential streets where one can park overnight if they have the proper street-parking permit displayed.

Let me guess, you got a ticket for parking on the street overnight between 2AM-6AM and now you are thinking that since there was no sign specifically posted where you were parked that somehow invalidates the ticket? You are SOL if that is the case and the ticket is legitimate.
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Dec 11, 2007
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I didn't get a ticket. I want to know the rule so I don't get one.

Here it says the rule only applies from Dec. 1 to March 31, and only in North York.
Newbie
Jan 11, 2012
2 posts
TORONTO
Hi Fox,

I am going to court regarding a ticket for driving in a lane designated for taxis/buses between 4-6 pm. The offence is stated on the ticket as "Drive vehicle designated lane" and as contrary to Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 400 Section 21(c)(i) [writing is difficult to read, so numbering may not be correct]. I am wondering if the code # is correct and if so, if there is a way to locate this portion of the code online. Upon looking at the Toronto Municipal Code on the City of Toronto website, there does not appear to be a Chapter 400, nor can I locate a Section 21 in the Chapter 950 for Traffic and By-laws. After calling court services, they said they are not familiar with the Code and that I could try hunting in the Provincial Offences Act. Would the labelling of the offence incorrectly be grounds for having the ticket dismissed?

Thanks very much.
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Nov 21, 2009
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thehook78 wrote: Hi Fox,

I am going to court regarding a ticket for driving in a lane designated for taxis/buses between 4-6 pm. The offence is stated on the ticket as "Drive vehicle designated lane" and as contrary to Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 400 Section 21(c)(i) [writing is difficult to read, so numbering may not be correct]. I am wondering if the code # is correct and if so, if there is a way to locate this portion of the code online. Upon looking at the Toronto Municipal Code on the City of Toronto website, there does not appear to be a Chapter 400, nor can I locate a Section 21 in the Chapter 950 for Traffic and By-laws. After calling court services, they said they are not familiar with the Code and that I could try hunting in the Provincial Offences Act. Would the labelling of the offence incorrectly be grounds for having the ticket dismissed?

Thanks very much.

if it's a by-law ticket, it will not affect anything. no points, no insurance increases
I would pay it up and be done with it
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Jul 26, 2009
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thehook78 wrote: Hi Fox,

I am going to court regarding a ticket for driving in a lane designated for taxis/buses between 4-6 pm. The offence is stated on the ticket as "Drive vehicle designated lane" and as contrary to Toronto Municipal Code Chapter 400 Section 21(c)(i) [writing is difficult to read, so numbering may not be correct]. I am wondering if the code # is correct and if so, if there is a way to locate this portion of the code online. Upon looking at the Toronto Municipal Code on the City of Toronto website, there does not appear to be a Chapter 400, nor can I locate a Section 21 in the Chapter 950 for Traffic and By-laws. After calling court services, they said they are not familiar with the Code and that I could try hunting in the Provincial Offences Act. Would the labelling of the offence incorrectly be grounds for having the ticket dismissed?

Thanks very much.

This is the Toronto PARKING TICKET thread. Here is the thread you want below. And FYI, I do not help people fight tickets. Call a paralegal or a lawyer.

ask-me-anything-about-your-traffic-ticket-847924/
Newbie
Jan 11, 2012
2 posts
TORONTO
vero95 wrote: if it's a by-law ticket, it will not affect anything. no points, no insurance increases
I would pay it up and be done with it

That is great to hear, as that is the real cost impact. Thanks for the help. Fox, apologies for misinterpreting the nature of advice on the thread (new here). I unfortunately am a lawyer, and will be representing myself. One thing lawyers are good at is asking the advice of knowledgeable persons.

Thanks all.
Member
Oct 25, 2010
499 posts
61 upvotes
Hi,

Question:

On Lippincott street at College there is a school. The school has a accessway that goes from their property out to Lippencott. The accessway appears to be a private drive. Here is the streetview of it:

http://g.co/maps/4p5uz

Important thing to note: The curb is NOT cut where the laneway meets Lippencott (it appears to look a little like it in the photo, but believe me it isn't).

Some time after the google streetview photo was taken, signs were attached to the wooden fence saying that you could not park in-front of that lane.

[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/15ryyc6.jpg[/IMG]

As far as I can tell, this is NOT a city of Toronto sign (doesn't look like one, PLUS it's mounted on private property). Understanding that I have to follow the other parking restrictions on the street (time of day), as far as I can tell I'm perfectly entitled to park here.

1) Am I right?
2) What is the chance that a parking officer is confused by the sign and gives me a ticket (particularly in the winter when the fact that the curb is not cut isn't obvious).
Member
Aug 25, 2010
291 posts
31 upvotes
Hi,

I got a ticket for parking in a 1h zone for longer than an hour. However, what really happened was after ~50 minutes, I realized that I would be another 30 minutes or so, so I went back out and moved the car up a few feet. I still got a ticket at the 1h10 mark. Do I have grounds for fighting the ticket, or is moving the car not sufficient?

Thanks!
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Jul 26, 2009
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Steve98 wrote: Hi,

Question:

On Lippincott street at College there is a school. The school has a accessway that goes from their property out to Lippencott. The accessway appears to be a private drive. Here is the streetview of it:

http://g.co/maps/4p5uz

Important thing to note: The curb is NOT cut where the laneway meets Lippencott (it appears to look a little like it in the photo, but believe me it isn't).

Some time after the google streetview photo was taken, signs were attached to the wooden fence saying that you could not park in-front of that lane.

[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/15ryyc6.jpg[/IMG]

As far as I can tell, this is NOT a city of Toronto sign (doesn't look like one, PLUS it's mounted on private property). Understanding that I have to follow the other parking restrictions on the street (time of day), as far as I can tell I'm perfectly entitled to park here.

1) Am I right?
2) What is the chance that a parking officer is confused by the sign and gives me a ticket (particularly in the winter when the fact that the curb is not cut isn't obvious).

No, you are not "perfectly entitled" to park there. In Toronto you are not allowed to park within 60cm of any private driveway or lane and signs do not need to be posted for this to be enforced. This offence would be enforced when the occupant of the property serviced by the driveway, in this case the school, calls to request enforcement. It is never enforced proactively so you wouldn't need to worry about some random PEO driving by giving you a ticket. However the placement of the signs on the fence are something you should not ignore just because they are not "official" city signs. If you did get a ticket there the signs would definitely be a part of the PEO's evidence and the fact they are mounted on a private fence would not be relevant, just the fact that you ignored them. They are just that extra bit of gravy in the PEO's evidence that will make it easier to convict you. Because that driveway is where the dumpster is located I wouldn't park anywhere near it to avoid any possible collisions while the garbage truck is entering/exiting the property. And if you did block access for garbage pick up of any other vehicle you can count on being towed too. Bottom line, don't park there because you will regret it.
Newbie
Jan 15, 2012
1 posts
WHITBY
Hey there, I just moved to Toronto and have a car so I needed to park it along side the road by the house I've moved into until I can change my residence and get a permanent permit. In the meantime I went online and printed off a temporary permit and went ahead an parked along the side the road. However going out to my car later on the next day I find I've been ticketed irregardless. The sign on the side of the road states "No parking between 12am and 7am without a permit" however I do have a temporary permit and it is clearly displayed, whats even more confusing is the ticket was issued at 12:41 PM, not am.

The infraction was a Code No. 5 PARK SIGNED HIGHWAY DURING PROHIBITED (TIMES/DAYS). I just don't get it... wtf did I do wrong?
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Lucky75 wrote: Hi,

I got a ticket for parking in a 1h zone for longer than an hour. However, what really happened was after ~50 minutes, I realized that I would be another 30 minutes or so, so I went back out and moved the car up a few feet. I still got a ticket at the 1h10 mark. Do I have grounds for fighting the ticket, or is moving the car not sufficient?

Thanks!

No you do not have grounds to fight the ticket. You were still parked in the same location so even if you did move the car a few feet. You are playing games when you do stuff like that and the courts take a very dim view of what you did. I have actually seen fines increased by the JP for stuff like that. In order to stop the clock on a violation like that you need to completely remove your vehicle from the location. You can return later and park in the same spot but moving the vehicle a few feet is not a legitimate way to re-start the clock.

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