Health & Wellness

[Merged] laser eye surgery

Poll: Mid twenties a good age to get it done?

  • Total votes: 420. You have voted on this poll.
Yes
 
220
52%
No
 
67
16%
Pizza is yummy
 
133
32%
Sr. Member
May 5, 2016
513 posts
504 upvotes
cheap sk8 wrote: Based on whom you've mentioned so far, since you're in Scarborough Bochner has an office there by Lawrence and Brimley with its own entrance and the surgeon is considered among the top in Canada so that would probably be your best bet. LASIK MD is like going to a hair salon with so many surgeons spread out and depending on who's renting the chair that day (that's literally how they also operate) your experience will vary. Herzig is located in a mall downtown so you'll have to commute all the way downtown and back and hope that the mall he's in is operating best practices during a pandemic, and TLC just went through bankruptcy restructuring and as a result staff left and those left behind, well you can imagine the moral at their office plus what monies are left in the pot for warranty work/touch-ups.

So, who would or have you decided upon?
I had consults with both Bochner and LASIK MD downtown, i also have a Herzig consult tomorrow.

LASIK MD - Yes it was obvious these guys deal in high volume but i was still fairly impressed. The "refraction consultant" was good in explaining to me what the procedure was going to be like and the testing to see if i was eligible or was fairly thorough. They seem to be using brand new equipment and they weren't trying to rush through the consult either, they were pretty patient with me because i'm super sensitive when it comes to putting stuff in my eye(like the drops and the pressure test) i felt like i got enough time and space to ask my questions. I was quoted $4450 and potential $200 discount if i got the procedure done in February

Bochner - even though the consult was in Scarborough, the surgery would be done in their downtown Office under Dr.Stein. They just have this little office space in Scarborough(inside another eye clinic) for consults only. This consult was kind of different, the lady doing the consult was way more experienced but she was also not as thorough as they were in LASIK MD, she actually forgot to do a corneal pressure test until it came up in a conversation and i reminded her that we didn't do it. And unlike LASIK MD, she didn't do a test for dry eyes either, to be fair i don't know if we needed that or not but overall i'd say the consult at Bochner was slightly less detail oriented. They also seem to be using older technology and older equipment compared to LASIK MD, it could be that this was because the consult was at their Scarborough office but i saw a clear difference. I was quoted $5400 but i was eligible for a $700 Venngo discount so $4700

What i understand from both consults is that i was kind of an ideal candidate for LASIK because of a mild prescription, above average corneal thickness and no other complications.

SO far its kind of tough to choose between them. LASIK MD isn't really that much cheaper but i didn't get the impression that they were compromising on quality of service either. Like you said, the one setback is not having a superstar Surgeon with a long track record but its not really clear to me that it matters that much. With Bochner, i was kind of disappointed with the office and their equipment given that this is the most expensive option but the consult being in Scarborough played a big role. The positives with Bochner is clearly their surgeons and the overall track record they have, it might be worth spending the extra couple hundred dollars to go with Dr.Stein. They're both downtown and its not really much of a difference for me, post op care and consultations are similar because you don't really deal with your surgeon in most cases.

We'll see what my experience with Herzig will be like, my guess is it will be the most expensive because they don't have any Venngo discounts.
Member
Sep 8, 2004
255 posts
32 upvotes
Toronto
azorahai wrote: I had consults with both Bochner and LASIK MD downtown, i also have a Herzig consult tomorrow.

LASIK MD - Yes it was obvious these guys deal in high volume but i was still fairly impressed. The "refraction consultant" was good in explaining to me what the procedure was going to be like and the testing to see if i was eligible or was fairly thorough. They seem to be using brand new equipment and they weren't trying to rush through the consult either, they were pretty patient with me because i'm super sensitive when it comes to putting stuff in my eye(like the drops and the pressure test) i felt like i got enough time and space to ask my questions. I was quoted $4450 and potential $200 discount if i got the procedure done in February

Bochner - even though the consult was in Scarborough, the surgery would be done in their downtown Office under Dr.Stein. They just have this little office space in Scarborough(inside another eye clinic) for consults only. This consult was kind of different, the lady doing the consult was way more experienced but she was also not as thorough as they were in LASIK MD, she actually forgot to do a corneal pressure test until it came up in a conversation and i reminded her that we didn't do it. And unlike LASIK MD, she didn't do a test for dry eyes either, to be fair i don't know if we needed that or not but overall i'd say the consult at Bochner was slightly less detail oriented. They also seem to be using older technology and older equipment compared to LASIK MD, it could be that this was because the consult was at their Scarborough office but i saw a clear difference. I was quoted $5400 but i was eligible for a $700 Venngo discount so $4700

What i understand from both consults is that i was kind of an ideal candidate for LASIK because of a mild prescription, above average corneal thickness and no other complications.

SO far its kind of tough to choose between them. LASIK MD isn't really that much cheaper but i didn't get the impression that they were compromising on quality of service either. Like you said, the one setback is not having a superstar Surgeon with a long track record but its not really clear to me that it matters that much. With Bochner, i was kind of disappointed with the office and their equipment given that this is the most expensive option but the consult being in Scarborough played a big role. The positives with Bochner is clearly their surgeons and the overall track record they have, it might be worth spending the extra couple hundred dollars to go with Dr.Stein. They're both downtown and its not really much of a difference for me, post op care and consultations are similar because you don't really deal with your surgeon in most cases.

We'll see what my experience with Herzig will be like, my guess is it will be the most expensive because they don't have any Venngo discounts.
Newer isn't always better as the technology may not be as well proven, learning curve to overcome, and like anything else, components may not be the same as its predecessor's reputation (Sony outsources all TV manufacturing and Blackberry just licenses its name out, for example).

I may be being picky, but having your own entrance in a medical environment these days is something to consider, or at least be in a medical building vs a mall, and even downtown Bochner has a private entrance. Might not be a deal breaker to you, but with the new variants of you-know-what....

Keep in mind, some of the places offer a slightly reduced price over their competition, but meds and follow-up or warranty is extra. Other places it's all-in like a Mexican vacation. Do you have to pay extra for eye-drops? Is there warranty, and if there is, do you have to go to one of their "approved" optometrists for regular checkups to keep it active?

Just some things to keep in mind.
Newbie
Nov 30, 2017
13 posts
1 upvote
azorahai wrote: I had consults with both Bochner and LASIK MD downtown, i also have a Herzig consult tomorrow.

LASIK MD - Yes it was obvious these guys deal in high volume but i was still fairly impressed. The "refraction consultant" was good in explaining to me what the procedure was going to be like and the testing to see if i was eligible or was fairly thorough. They seem to be using brand new equipment and they weren't trying to rush through the consult either, they were pretty patient with me because i'm super sensitive when it comes to putting stuff in my eye(like the drops and the pressure test) i felt like i got enough time and space to ask my questions. I was quoted $4450 and potential $200 discount if i got the procedure done in February

Bochner - even though the consult was in Scarborough, the surgery would be done in their downtown Office under Dr.Stein. They just have this little office space in Scarborough(inside another eye clinic) for consults only. This consult was kind of different, the lady doing the consult was way more experienced but she was also not as thorough as they were in LASIK MD, she actually forgot to do a corneal pressure test until it came up in a conversation and i reminded her that we didn't do it. And unlike LASIK MD, she didn't do a test for dry eyes either, to be fair i don't know if we needed that or not but overall i'd say the consult at Bochner was slightly less detail oriented. They also seem to be using older technology and older equipment compared to LASIK MD, it could be that this was because the consult was at their Scarborough office but i saw a clear difference. I was quoted $5400 but i was eligible for a $700 Venngo discount so $4700

What i understand from both consults is that i was kind of an ideal candidate for LASIK because of a mild prescription, above average corneal thickness and no other complications.

SO far its kind of tough to choose between them. LASIK MD isn't really that much cheaper but i didn't get the impression that they were compromising on quality of service either. Like you said, the one setback is not having a superstar Surgeon with a long track record but its not really clear to me that it matters that much. With Bochner, i was kind of disappointed with the office and their equipment given that this is the most expensive option but the consult being in Scarborough played a big role. The positives with Bochner is clearly their surgeons and the overall track record they have, it might be worth spending the extra couple hundred dollars to go with Dr.Stein. They're both downtown and its not really much of a difference for me, post op care and consultations are similar because you don't really deal with your surgeon in most cases.

We'll see what my experience with Herzig will be like, my guess is it will be the most expensive because they don't have any Venngo discounts.
Which did you end up going with? I just had a virtual consultation with TLC. Got Herzig and Bochner appointments scheduled for end of March. I’d like to get the surgery before my wedding in August but I’m concerned about those horror stories of having super dry eyes for months after the procedure. My prescription has also changed a bit in the last year so no idea if that makes a difference. TLC told me it was fine.
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jan 31, 2004
989 posts
140 upvotes
Toronto
I have a upcoming consultation with Herzig in 2 weeks. Anyone have a referral i can use for the discount?
Sr. Member
May 5, 2016
513 posts
504 upvotes
Osapravi wrote: Which did you end up going with? I just had a virtual consultation with TLC. Got Herzig and Bochner appointments scheduled for end of March. I’d like to get the surgery before my wedding in August but I’m concerned about those horror stories of having super dry eyes for months after the procedure. My prescription has also changed a bit in the last year so no idea if that makes a difference. TLC told me it was fine.

I ended up going with Herzig, i was meaning to post an update so here it is.

Herzig Consultation: It was good, very thorough in terms of tests. The refractive consultant(the optometrist) was fairly in explaining what my options were. She bought up the fact that Herzig was the only place also offering SMILE reflex LASIK for eligible patients and that it was their opinion that it was a better procedure due to potentially fewer incidences of dry eyes. And because one of the surgeons was in that day i even got a quick 5 minute consult with him, he took a look at me eyes and said he wanted to do another test because my nerves in the back of the eye were large, this could be due to previous trauma or it could be natural. It was later concluded that it was natural. The price quoted was 5700 for SMILE LASIK vs 5500 for LASIK.

Here was the price breakdown in case anyone missed my previous post

LASIK MD : $4450 for LASIK with a potential $200 for getting it in February, included in this is a 5 year gurantee in terms of corrections
Bochner: $5400 with a $700 discount, includes lifetime guarantee for corrections with some conditions
Herzig: $5700 for SMILE lasik vs $5500 for LASIK, similar lifetime guarantee as Bochner

In terms of the post op kit and medications they gave you, they all seem pretty similar except Herzig is giving you fewer days of lubricating drops(OTC), so you have to buy more of your own.

I decided to go with Herzig just for the fact that it was the only place offering SMILE, although its not a slam dunk there is just enough research to suggest that its a better option when it comes to long term dry eye outcomes and corneal regeneration. It comes down to the fact that SMILE requires 1/4 of the incision of regular LASIK.

OTOH, a lot of people argue that outcomes for SMILE and lasik are not really all that different and it might not really be worth it. I decided to go with it but from what i understand most experts are perfectly satisfied with both.

So i decided to go with Herzig and got an appointment relatively quickly, within 2 weeks, on the 4th of march. I went with Dr.Herzig himself although the other surgeon would have been fine too, he performs the procedure on Thursdays, the other guy does it on Fridays. I guess that's one thing to keep in mind for those considering between the 3 options, Bochner has a longer waiting list before you get an appointment compared to LASIK MD and Herzig.

As for the procedure itself, i'll post more details in the next post.
Sr. Member
May 5, 2016
513 posts
504 upvotes
SMILE procedure with Herzig

Day of surgery: My appointment was at 1PM, i was told previously that the i would be in and out in under 90 minutes. After i got there, i had to complete my payment minus the $500 deposit you have to pay to book your surgery appointment. They did a few more final tests before a quick 2minute consult with Dr.Herzig. He did one final examination and briefly walked me through the procedure.

The procedure: Literally lasted less than 5 minutes. They get you into the operative room, it takes a couple of minutes to get you to lie down and have your head rested securely so that you don't move. They put in numbing drops and clamp your eyelids so you don't blink. And then the laser itself begins, it lasts 30 seconds in each eye and another 30 seconds where the surgeon does something with the flap, they count down the time the laser works on you. Its obviously uncomfortable but not painful. Once the procedure is done on both eyes they get you out of the operating room and rest on a chair outside for like 5 minutes and then the surgeon takes a visual look at your eye. Dr.Herzig said everything looked fine and handed me over to the LASIK consultant who went over the medication schedule, general post op and my next appointments. I was cleared to go home within like 15 minutes after the surgery, they don't require you to wait.

Post op same day: The pain(a burning sensation) begins like an hour after the procedure and the numbing drops wear off. Its not that bad to be honest, they give you pain killers but you don't need them at all. I went home and just rested my eyes, i didn't take a nap or anything, just took the medication on the schedule described. You also have to take your lubricating drops every 30 minutes on teh day of. Saw hints of improved distance vision in daylight pretty much right after i came home.

Day 1 post op: Had my post op 1 day appointment with an optometrist(the surgeons don't see you) at the clinic and it was super quick. They did a quick vision test and an examination of the eye under a microscope. I was seeing 20/20 in one eye but not in the other and apparently there was more swelling in the other eye which is common. The eyes can heal at different rates apparently, overall the optometrist said my eye was healing like you would expect at that stage.

Days 2-7: Just continue taking my drops but did start to notice the usual side effects. The halos and starbursts were pretty bad at night, my vision was noticeably worse once it got dark. When looking at a phone or a computer, my vision is pretty cloudy and hazy. Dry eyes was not that bad because the medication schedule is rigorous enough to take care of it. Had a 7 day appointment over the phone but again it was super quick and i felt like i was rushed, i would have preferred an in person appointment.

Day 7 to 10- The medicated drops ended, now it was just artificial tears that i had to taken when i needed them. Around day 7 is when i started noticing an increased problem with dry eyes. I work a desk job and there was a strong correlation between computer usage and how much my eyes bothered me. At one point i had to take eye drops every 30 minutes to an hour just to get through work. My right eye was noticeably worse than the left, also had a bit of "foreign body sensation"(like there's something in your eyes) on that eye which freaked me out a little but apparently its quite normal. There's also a bit of dull pain. I didn't have a problem with dry eyes in the morning, it gets noticeably worse in the evening because of all the strain that you put on it over teh course of the day.

Current(Day 11): Gave my eyes complete rest over the weekend with no screen time and its noticeable how much better your eyes feel, i needed eye drops much less frequently when i wasn't straining them. Even today(the monday) seems to have been an improvement in terms of dry eye, i don't have the foreign body sensation anymore in that eye but its still noticeably more dry than the other. I'm using drops every hour to 2 hours. I started taking omega 3 supplements a few days ago, there's some research to suggest it helps with the dry eyes, its too soon to tell if they're working or not. The hazy vision when looking at a computer or phone has gotten a little bit better but the halos are still there.

Overall, both the procedure and the post op recovery has gone as i had expected. One thing i would tell people is to keep in mind just long it takes to see improvements in your overall vision(not just distance vision during daytime) and for the side effects to go down, the expecations before you get the procedure is important. Even i freaked out a little and started doomscrolling but i've decided to just continue taking my artificial tearss when i need them and continue to rest my eyes from computer screen as much as i can outside of work, and then just let me eyes heal.

I'll post a another update when i have my 1 month appointment.
Sr. Member
May 5, 2016
513 posts
504 upvotes
Osapravi wrote: Which did you end up going with? I just had a virtual consultation with TLC. Got Herzig and Bochner appointments scheduled for end of March. I’d like to get the surgery before my wedding in August but I’m concerned about those horror stories of having super dry eyes for months after the procedure. My prescription has also changed a bit in the last year so no idea if that makes a difference. TLC told me it was fine.
Even if the procedure goes percectly, you'll have dry eye and other vision symptoms for atleast a month, and very likely 3 months and for others it can take a year. Maybe you're different from me but i freak out a little when it comes to things like this and my dry eye(and i have a fairly moderate case of it, only 10 days out from the surgery) has stressed me out a little bit.

Honestly, i wouldn't do it before a wedding, which is stressful as is, you don't need a LASIK procedure to add to it, however minor it may be. That's another thing i would tell people, get the procedure done when you have no other stressors in your life.
Newbie
Nov 30, 2017
13 posts
1 upvote
azorahai wrote: Even if the procedure goes percectly, you'll have dry eye and other vision symptoms for atleast a month, and very likely 3 months and for others it can take a year. Maybe you're different from me but i freak out a little when it comes to things like this and my dry eye(and i have a fairly moderate case of it, only 10 days out from the surgery) has stressed me out a little bit.

Honestly, i wouldn't do it before a wedding, which is stressful as is, you don't need a LASIK procedure to add to it, however minor it may be. That's another thing i would tell people, get the procedure done when you have no other stressors in your life.
Thanks for taking the time to write up the update with Herzig. I'm happy it well for you! You're definitely right about the timing. I'm considering moving it back to Sept/Oct or even next winter but I'm going to do all the consultations now anyway and see what kind of feedback the doctors have, like if I'm an eligible patient.
Sr. Member
May 5, 2016
513 posts
504 upvotes
Osapravi wrote: Thanks for taking the time to write up the update with Herzig. I'm happy it well for you! You're definitely right about the timing. I'm considering moving it back to Sept/Oct or even next winter but I'm going to do all the consultations now anyway and see what kind of feedback the doctors have, like if I'm an eligible patient.
Make sure you get a consult from LASIK MD too, i was fairly impressed with them. Don't assume that they're low quality just because they're lower priced and deal in volume.
Deal Addict
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Aug 21, 2009
4596 posts
330 upvotes
Inclemental wrote: Sorry, was expecting everyone lives in GTA and knows North York General Hospital as NYGN.

Post is updating with my experience. Post-surgical recovery section will be updated

I have myopia around -5.5 to -6.0 for both eyes and 0.5 to 1 astigmatism with most recent prescription. Myopia has been stable for the past 10 years while astigmatism fluctuate between 0 to 1.75 due to bad habit of rubbing eyes. however it seems to be hovering around 0.5 to 1 for the past few years. Went consultation with LASIK MD twice in 2014 and 2016. I was quoted ~$3300-$3600 for custom wavefront LASIK. I wasn't ready at the time so I didn't go further after consultation.

Until early this year, I figured it would be a good time to get it done this year as I would take my parental leave this year. I started my research and found this thread. After much readings, like many RFDers here, I was very interested in TransPRK with SMARTSurface. Unfortunately NVision closed and only places offer SMARTSurface were in Montreal and Vancouver. I leaned toward Dr. David Lin from PLEC in BC. I contacted PLEC and quoted $4300. We arranged a in clinic consultation and surgery within 2 days in May since I've already scheduled time off from work. Due to COVID-19, the whole thing was ruined and I couldn't travel anywhere. I began my search in GTA and hope for a regular PRK locally in May. But all clinics were closed in May and not opening till July. At this point, PRK was completely off my list if I wanted it be done this year as I had no more vacation.

Then I looked for LASIK option locally and began with LASIKMD first. The website was completely down. All page I clicked directed me back to their Vaughan location closure page. I tried email and phoned them but I wasn't able to connect anyone. I called Herzig for a consultation and an in clinic appointment was scheduled in May and got pushed to June then eventually in July as business finally allowed to be opened. TLC also arranged me a consultation appointment in July. Bochner was fully booked till August for consultation.

In July I went to Herzig and TLC for their consultation. At Herzig, I was offered both LASIK and SMILE. Price was $4700 and $5200. I was a good candidate for SMILE and they highly recommended it. Pro of SMILE is faster recovery and less prone to dry eyes. CON is newer technology compared to LASIK. Since they had a surgery slot end of July, I took the spot until I make my decision after seeing TLC.

Then I had my TLC appointment a week after. I was quoted $4800 for LASIK. Consultant offered LASIK only. I asked other option such as PRK. I was told only 10% of their procedures were PRK due ineligibility to LASIK. She knew only limited customer insisted PRK. I also asked Dr. Jeff Machat to perform my surgery but unfortunately he is currently in US and not able to come back to perform any surgery. I could choose an early September appointment with other surgeons.

After more consideration and research, I finally chose to get SMILE from Herzig by Dr. Herzig himself at the end of July.

Thanks for this forum and many RFDers posts. I also got Omega-3 and Lutetin supplement for the procedure. I got Kirland's Alaskan Salmon fish oil as family has been taking this. Without much research, I got B+L Ocuvite regular which has Lutein, Zinc and Vitamin C. All hope for less issue with dry eyes. I started taking supplement daily one week before the procedure. Without knowing which lubricating drops and quantity I will get from Herzig, I got a pack of Bion Tears from Costco as many mentioned here that keeping eyes moist is key to recover and to combat dry eyes. I also stocked up a few bottles of Hylo which can be used after exhausting Bion Tears.

Surgery was on the Thursday afternoon before Civic Holiday. I took both Thursday and Friday off so I will have 4 days resting at home after the surgery.

Day 0 Surgery day
Got to the clinic 15 minutes prior the appointment time. Had temperature checked and COVID-19 related questions answered. They taped the upper side of my mask to my nose which preventing me taking my mask off inside the clinic (according to staff that many customer took their mask off in the clinic). Signed all wavier form and paid my balance at the front desk. Then I was taken to do one more measurement before the procedure. I was given a relaxant pill and sat outside the operating room for my turn. I was also given my post surgery kit which included a sunglass, antibiotic drops, steroid drops, and lubricating drops. 2 different type of lubricating drops were included. The Refresh Celluvisc vital (10 vitals) and Systane Complete. It included 2 tabs of Tylenol 3. There were 2 patients ahead of me. One had LASIK and the other person had PRK on one eye and SMILE on the other. I got to watch their procedures while waiting for my turn.

I met Dr. Herzig before my turn. He checked my eyes again to confirm my condition. Answered a few of my questions before stepping into the OR room. Then the staff led me into the OR room. I got placed onto the table and prep with more PPE over my head/ears and anesthetic drops to my eyes. Then I got swing under the laser head. Dr. Herzig mentioned each step to me while performing the procedure. I know what happen at each stage. First I was aligned to the laser and the suction cup descent to hold my eye at place. Then the actual procedure began and lasted 30 seconds for each eye. Tech counted the time on the side at each 5 seconds interval. I was asked to follow the green dot all time. 15 seconds into the procedure, my vision started blurry and losing sight of the green dot. It was the time lenticular tissue being detached from the cornea. At the end of the laser treatment, it was completely blurred. Dr. Herzig then switch the laser to a bright LED microscope for lenticular tissue removal. During this procedure, he insert the instruction into my eye and began scoping out the tissue. At this stage, all I felt was the movement and slight pressure from the tool. It took less than a minute for him to remove the tissue out of my eye. Then he puts a few drops to my eye. The whole procedure repeated for another eye. Overall, the whole procedure lasted than 10 minutes in and out in the OR. Dr. Herzig then took me back to the examine room to check for incision site. Then I was clear to go once he was ok with the incision.

It took just over an hour including all paper work and waiting time in the clinic. Initially we were told it would take at least one and half hour for the whole procedure. While I was out of clinic, my wife was still shopping on Bloor street. Unlucky me, I'd to go find her in one of the store near the clinic. With sunglass on. I don't have any light sensitiveness while walking on the street. But it was very hard to look at my phone screen to call my wife. My vision is about 70-80% close to preoperative. I waited half an hour for her to finish check out. While I was waiting, I was able to see most thing. Only thing I had difficulty was seeing darker colour items. I wasn't able to tell the colour of 2 darker clothing in the store. Then we walked another 10 minutes back to the park lot. I didn't feel any pain during the whole time. I felt tired and some pressure on my eyes only. On our way out of downtown. I could use the phone as GPS and navigated her out to Hwy 404. While she was driving, I had no problem seeing traffic. I felt like I could drove myself at such condition. Took us 1+ hour to get home due to traffic on highway. Most of the time I was able to keep my eyes open and able to see much. But eyes got tired quickly and needed to be closed for a coupe minutes in between.

I was told to start using drops when I get home. So in the first 2 hours after the surgery, I didn't put a single drop into my eyes. Once home, I started using the antibiotic every 4 hours, steroid every 2 hours and Refresh every 30 minutes till bed. For the 1st day. I didn't experience any pain or much discomfort. I just felt tired, slight pressure on the eyes and light tension headache. I kept wearing the sunglass the whole time including sleeping.

Day 1 After Surgery
Woke up in the morning with completely dried crust on the eyes and not able to open my eyes at all. Had to loose up with my drops and water to clean the eyelid. It was due to Fresh Celluvisc. Vision was a bit blurry but seems to be better after applying more drops (Celluvisc). But it got sticky very quickly due to gel base. Wife drove me back to downtown for 1 day follow up. I was able to see all signs and my phone screen for GPS. Optometrist at Herzig checked my eyes, left was 20/20 and right was 20/25. But combined reading was 20/20. I was cleared to drive but warned about night driving due to halo. I didn't like Fresh Celluvisc due to it was gel. I was told to skip it and move onto Systane Bion Tears. Instead of using it every 1/2 hour. it was as needed. But I kept using it every 30 minutes to keep my eyes moist. Took me 1+ hour on DVP/404 to get home from downtown due to traffic. During the time, vision was good for driving. It got a bit dry and sting when close to home and needed to apply drops right away after getting home. Vision stayed the same throughout the day. Eyes seem very easy to get strain. Over problem I experienced was seem like my eyes weren't producing any tears and needed to by moist all time by Bion Tear. Again I had kept sunglasses on while sleep.

Day 2
Eyes not sticky anymore in the morning after switched over to Bion Tear. Vision seems to be blurrier than previous day during the morning. It got better close to noon time and felt much more optimal in the afternoon and seem to get a bit blurry again at night. I was told it was normal as vision would fluctuate. I just kept using all the drops according to schedule. Eyes are still sensitive to light. Even lights at home. Had to wear sunglass most of the time even at home. Like previous day, didn't feel eyes were producing any tears and needed Bion Tear every 30 min to a hour. Again slept with sunglass.

Day 3
Very similar to day 2. Woke up with blurry vision but got much better within an hour of waking up. After applying my 2nd time of antibiotic of the day, my eyes suddenly felt very sting. Tears kept dropping. (first time feeling I can make tears after the surgery). I had to wiped out all drops in order to open my eyes. Called Herzig immediately to report the situation. I was told it was due to dry eye. I was asked to use Bion Tear every 20 minutes for the next couple days. Right away, I put more Bion Tear every 20 minutes for the day. Stinging feeling went away within the first hour after full moist. Went out to shopping center with family in the afternoon when I felt better. Stayed at inlaw's home for dinner. This day was first time to drive at night. It was bad. Halo from oncoming traffic glowed as big as the car. Had worsen glow with yellow yellowish headlight than bright white headlight. A lot of light noise on the road even without any oncoming traffic. Tried to wear sunglass and immediately it helped a lot to reduce light noise and able to see much better. Halo got more managable. Instead of sparking glow, it got more rounded glow.

Day 4
Woke up with tired eyes. Vision was blurry before applying any drops. With drops applied, vision got much more clear. However, throughout the day, vision was more blurry compared to previous days. At times, it seem to be worse than right after surgery. It only got better closing to end of day. But overall, vision was still blurrier than previous day. To prepare going back to work (8hr in front of a PC), I got myself a pair of anti-blue light glasses. Kept applying Bion Tear every 20-40 minutes.

Day 5
Same as previous day vision only got cleared after drops. First time starring at monitor after surgery. Light from screen was too harsh for the eyes. Then I put the anti-blue light glasses on and it helped by warmed colour from bluish to yellowish. Kept using Bion Tear religiously every 30 mins to an hour or whenever eyes felt strained. Toward end of the work day, eyes got very tired and had tension headache on one side. Otherwise vision was clear.

Day 6-7
Very similar to day 5. Eyes are adjusting to long hour to screen time. Took times off the screen after 15-20 minutes. Blink and rest for a minute or 2 before resuming work. Reducing Bion Tears frequency to every one to two hour. Not feeling any sting at all even when skipping some drops in between. However eyes seem still be easier tired out and strained.

Had one week follow up with Herzig on day 7. Mentioned about less depending on Bion Tears. I was told even I may not need the drops. I am still required to put them on as they will moist the surface of the cornea and help to improve vision. At day 7, I completed all antibiotic and steroid and use lucubrating drops exclusively.

Day 8+ till now at 2 weeks point
Vision is stable. I don't need drops in the morning to get away the blurriness. I reduced using Bion Tears to just 3-4 times a day. Halo was still a problem for night driving. But now it glowed as an outter ring of night source only.
Thanks for your review. Unless I missed it, do you still experience any issues? Is the night time halo a permanent thing?
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azorahai wrote: I ended up going with Herzig, i was meaning to post an update so here it is.

Herzig Consultation: It was good, very thorough in terms of tests. The refractive consultant(the optometrist) was fairly in explaining what my options were. She bought up the fact that Herzig was the only place also offering SMILE reflex LASIK for eligible patients and that it was their opinion that it was a better procedure due to potentially fewer incidences of dry eyes. And because one of the surgeons was in that day i even got a quick 5 minute consult with him, he took a look at me eyes and said he wanted to do another test because my nerves in the back of the eye were large, this could be due to previous trauma or it could be natural. It was later concluded that it was natural. The price quoted was 5700 for SMILE LASIK vs 5500 for LASIK.

Here was the price breakdown in case anyone missed my previous post

LASIK MD : $4450 for LASIK with a potential $200 for getting it in February, included in this is a 5 year gurantee in terms of corrections
Bochner: $5400 with a $700 discount, includes lifetime guarantee for corrections with some conditions
Herzig: $5700 for SMILE lasik vs $5500 for LASIK, similar lifetime guarantee as Bochner

In terms of the post op kit and medications they gave you, they all seem pretty similar except Herzig is giving you fewer days of lubricating drops(OTC), so you have to buy more of your own.

I decided to go with Herzig just for the fact that it was the only place offering SMILE, although its not a slam dunk there is just enough research to suggest that its a better option when it comes to long term dry eye outcomes and corneal regeneration. It comes down to the fact that SMILE requires 1/4 of the incision of regular LASIK.

OTOH, a lot of people argue that outcomes for SMILE and lasik are not really all that different and it might not really be worth it. I decided to go with it but from what i understand most experts are perfectly satisfied with both.

So i decided to go with Herzig and got an appointment relatively quickly, within 2 weeks, on the 4th of march. I went with Dr.Herzig himself although the other surgeon would have been fine too, he performs the procedure on Thursdays, the other guy does it on Fridays. I guess that's one thing to keep in mind for those considering between the 3 options, Bochner has a longer waiting list before you get an appointment compared to LASIK MD and Herzig.

As for the procedure itself, i'll post more details in the next post.
Wow, based on the timing of your posts, you got a lot of things done in relatively quick order. Consultation for me is a month out at Lasik and not sure if I should wait. I am more surprised at how fast you were able to book the surgery!
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Lovable wrote: Wow, based on the timing of your posts, you got a lot of things done in relatively quick order. Consultation for me is a month out at Lasik and not sure if I should wait. I am more surprised at how fast you were able to book the surgery!
I wanted to get the procedure in Late February/Early March so i would be good to go by Summer.

With LASIK MD, i just got lucky, there was an appointment open for the next day but everything else was booked for weeks. With Bochner, if you're willing to go to Scarborough vs Downtown for your consult you might be able to get a faster appointment. With Herzig, they'll try to get you for a "virtual consultation", tell them you're serious about getting the procedure and would actually get it relatively soon if you're eligible, that will get you an in-person appointment much sooner.

As for surgery bookings, like i said in my post, Bochner has considerably longer waiting lists compared to LASIK MD and Herzig.
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azorahai wrote: I wanted to get the procedure in Late February/Early March so i would be good to go by Summer.

With LASIK MD, i just got lucky, there was an appointment open for the next day but everything else was booked for weeks. With Bochner, if you're willing to go to Scarborough vs Downtown for your consult you might be able to get a faster appointment. With Herzig, they'll try to get you for a "virtual consultation", tell them you're serious about getting the procedure and would actually get it relatively soon if you're eligible, that will get you an in-person appointment much sooner.

As for surgery bookings, like i said in my post, Bochner has considerably longer waiting lists compared to LASIK MD and Herzig.
Yup, booked for Herzig and Lasik which are a few weeks out but got Bochner sooner.

Has the recovery been tough on you? Thinking SMILE would have been a quick recovery but it seems to take as long as PRK?
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Lovable wrote: Thanks for your review. Unless I missed it, do you still experience any issues? Is the night time halo a permanent thing?
Halo is temporary and based on your condition. If you have drier eyes, you will get more halo. Consistent eye drops will help. I have much manageable halo issue now as it just grow on the outer ring of light source and no spread nor spike. But a few night ago after a long day in front of PC, endless virtual meeting and lack of sleep. My eyes were so tired and dry. I had very bad halo that I hardly manage to see anything while driving at night. All light have shooting halo. I'd stop a few times to get eyes moist in a 45 minutes home. The next day after a full rest. Halo was gone as eyes are well moist themselves.
Lovable wrote: Yup, booked for Herzig and Lasik which are a few weeks out but got Bochner sooner.

Has the recovery been tough on you? Thinking SMILE would have been a quick recovery but it seems to take as long as PRK?
Recovery from surgery is much quicker with SMILE. The actual full recovery has no difference. It still takes 6+ months for most people for stable eye sight.
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Inclemental wrote: Halo is temporary and based on your condition. If you have drier eyes, you will get more halo. Consistent eye drops will help. I have much manageable halo issue now as it just grow on the outer ring of light source and no spread nor spike. But a few night ago after a long day in front of PC, endless virtual meeting and lack of sleep. My eyes were so tired and dry. I had very bad halo that I hardly manage to see anything while driving at night. All light have shooting halo. I'd stop a few times to get eyes moist in a 45 minutes home. The next day after a full rest. Halo was gone as eyes are well moist themselves.



Recovery from surgery is much quicker with SMILE. The actual full recovery has no difference. It still takes 6+ months for most people for stable eye sight.
So halo is a permanent thing then going forward? Introduced as a result of Lasik?

I too am worried in my profession, I find myself in front of a screen, mobile or not for extremely long periods of time.
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Lovable wrote: So halo is a permanent thing then going forward? Introduced as a result of Lasik?

I too am worried in my profession, I find myself in front of a screen, mobile or not for extremely long periods of time.
No, Halos are like dry eye symptoms. They're expected to go away after a full recovery which can vary by patient, 3 months vs 6 months vs 12 months.

And like Dry Eyes they can be a long term problem in a small percentage of people. Large pupils are a risk factor for Halos.
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azorahai wrote: No, Halos are like dry eye symptoms. They're expected to go away after a full recovery which can vary by patient, 3 months vs 6 months vs 12 months.

And like Dry Eyes they can be a long term problem in a small percentage of people. Large pupils are a risk factor for Halos.
Ah so the misconception (perhaps on my part) is that the recovery does take a few months for some and you are not just back in action after a week or two?
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Lovable wrote: Ah so the misconception (perhaps on my part) is that the recovery does take a few months for some and you are not just back in action after a week or two?
I guess i haven't been clear. You are "back in action" much sooner than that, the Doctor will likely clear you to work on Monday if you get it done on Thursday or Friday. You will likely see distance vision improvements in the daytime right away, and there is nothing that stops from you getting back to your daily life, you can go ahead with exercise, lifting, sports(although non contact) etc.

What i was talking about in terms of "fully recovered" are the side affects from the surgery, the dry eyes, the halos at night and things like that. Those can take a while for your recover from. You will have to continue taking drops for the dry eyes until you no longer need them. If you work a desk job, you will notice that your eyes get drier the more you look at a monitor, so you will have to use more drops. How quickly you will recover from dry eyes and halos depends on your current prescription, your pupil size, your current eye dryness issues etc
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azorahai wrote: I guess i haven't been clear. You are "back in action" much sooner than that, the Doctor will likely clear you to work on Monday if you get it done on Thursday or Friday. You will likely see distance vision improvements in the daytime right away, and there is nothing that stops from you getting back to your daily life, you can go ahead with exercise, lifting, sports(although non contact) etc.

What i was talking about in terms of "fully recovered" are the side affects from the surgery, the dry eyes, the halos at night and things like that. Those can take a while for your recover from. You will have to continue taking drops for the dry eyes until you no longer need them. If you work a desk job, you will notice that your eyes get drier the more you look at a monitor, so you will have to use more drops. How quickly you will recover from dry eyes and halos depends on your current prescription, your pupil size, your current eye dryness issues etc
Ah, got it - thank you!

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