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Locked: [Merged] Quality journalism from CBC news - Sunshine List

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Jan 22, 2003
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Wow, surprised by the low salaries for some managerial or University positions, especially engineering related. Must not include some defined pension benefit plan, otherwise no way folks would be there.
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Apr 14, 2017
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webdoctors wrote: Wow, surprised by the low salaries for some managerial or University positions, especially engineering related. Must not include some defined pension benefit plan, otherwise no way folks would be there.
Not a bad gig, and most have side business/jobs. Plus, you get a year of sabbatical every 7 years, summers off teaching, etc.
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Imagine how large the list would be if Hydro One was back on?
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May 14, 2009
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Micelli_Illuminatti wrote: Can I ask why you guys don't go work for the government, yourselves?
I do and it's still annoying to see that some of the fools I work with make that much money. Especially when I work with them and see how often they screw up or don't know what they're talking about half the time. Then there are the ones that did so much OT it makes you wonder how that happened when OT is supposed to be offered equitably.
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Sep 30, 2011
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Micelli_Illuminatti wrote: Can I ask why you guys don't go work for the government, yourselves?
Because government jobs are hard to get in, part of the reason is nepotism. There isn't really a competition on merit basis to get in, more or less the position is already filled with targeted individual before they play an posting and interview game.
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@napoleonbot Or if you are qualified you may be able to get in, without connections; I've seen it happen. Don't despair.

@amz155 That sounds like sour grapes; just apply for those positions too, then.
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Mar 27, 2015
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I've never seen anyone get in without connections. I've also seen new jobs created out of thin air for no other purpose than because someone knows someone.
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FreshCo wrote: Not a bad gig, and most have side business/jobs. Plus, you get a year of sabbatical every 7 years, summers off teaching, etc.
(This was re University positions.)

It's not a bad gig, because of the stability, the pension benefits (which yes are not included in the numbers), and the greater-than-typical (though no means unbounded) freedom to do your own thing, both in terms of scheduling and in terms of research focus.
However, people often have a number of misconceptions about academic positions in particular:
  1. It's a lazy job, since you don't teach over the summer and get sabbaticals --> There's a perception that a professor's job is first and foremost teaching. In reality, expectations vary by position, but say for my spouse it's 40% teaching, 40% research, 20% service (processing admissions files, supervising graduate students, sitting on committees, journal editorial boards and peer review, etc.). It varies during the year, so during teaching term lots of profs have no time for research, and make it up over the summer. Yes there are tenured academics who coast, but a lot of them work -- like my spouse -- 60-70 hrs/week in peak times and 40-45 hrs/wk in off-peak.
  2. It's really well paid --> for senior, tenured academics, it's pretty decent indeed. (For the increasing number of junior, part-time faculty much much less so). And pensions do help. But in many professional fields, an academic's salary lags that of their private sector fields quite a bit. My spouse took a 30% pay cut to join academia, and now lags private-sector peers by 50%. That's rather unusually high, but not out of line.
  3. They make even more through side gigs and research grants --> some do, but lots don't. Research grants generally aren't salary, they're for research expenses and supporting graduate students. In some fields, consulting fees do add up, but in others (including my spouse's), most who do get the occasional honorarium throw it into the kitty for expenses. In my spouse's area, for instance, a lot of supporting coordinator and research assistant positions are so-called "soft-funded", which means there's no continuous support from the University, it's what faculty members carve out of their research grants and/or honoraria and consulting fees that pays for them.
  4. It's low stress, since they have tenure. --> once an academic gets tenure (which is by no means guaranteed, and a pipe dream for many junior faculty in recent years), yes they have a great dollop of job security, and can coast. But few do. There's a lot of type-A personalities, a lot of competition for grants (see above), and lot of competition just for competition's sake, and in many cases a more tear-down rather than supportive culture than I've seen in most (not all) areas of the private sector. So indeed a self-confident hermit can grab the tenure ring and coast, but most are under a similar level of stress as private sector managers or executives.
  5. You do all sorts of boondoggle travel to conferences and on sabbatical --> there is some boondoggle travel, for sure, just like among the "traveling class" in the private sector. But rules on expenses in the public sector tend to be as stringent as the worst of the private sector, so most academics I know routinely end up paying some of their work travel expenses personally just to save hassle. And those sabbaticals - yes they typically squeeze in some vacation in there, but an awful lot of days on sabbatical are spent going to library to do research, finishing writing that overdue article, interviewing such and such. Or getting on skype with colleagues back home. A sabbatical is not "do what you want for X months", but "skip the regular teaching to be able to concentrate on research; and please continue to do at least some of the service."
Last edited by houska on Mar 28th, 2018 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sep 30, 2011
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Micelli_Illuminatti wrote: @napoleonbot Or if you are qualified you may be able to get in, without connections; I've seen it happen. Don't despair.
@amz155 That sounds like sour grapes; just apply for those positions too, then.
There's a chance, of course, no one say there isn't. But how could so many cop family, teacher family, TTC family etc, etc in our daily life?

And of course all those jobs are normal civil servant jobs that many people qualify for, there are more than 20,000 people on waiting list of Ontario teacher.
Can you elaborate how the qualification process works that those 20 k people are found less qualified than the existing ones (many would be on the sunshine list)?
Why they would want to wait for their chance if the system is even close to a merit based system.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report- ... e35307960/
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Feb 23, 2015
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So much butthurt in this thread.

Life is too short to give a shit about what others make, live and let live. Be humble you got a roof over your head and a hot meal!
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flyingnurse wrote: So much butthurt in this thread.

Life is too short to give a shit about what others make, live and let live. Be humble you got a roof over your head and a hot meal!
In general I would agree with you; when I see other people working for private businesses making six figures or millions, good for them.

However, there is a big difference for people that are working from my (in this case, Ontarians') tax dollars. As a taxpayer, I am their employer so it very much matters how much they get paid and what valuable work they do in return for the money they are taking from me. The only people I care about wrt how much money they make and how they spend their time are public servants, because I pay them.
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Nov 26, 2016
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flyingnurse wrote: So much butthurt in this thread.

Life is too short to give a shit about what others make, live and let live. Be humble you got a roof over your head and a hot meal!
Are you a public sector employee?
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Feb 23, 2015
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Anglia15 wrote: Are you a public sector employee?
Both
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LeisureSuitL wrote: In general I would agree with you; when I see other people working for private businesses making six figures or millions, good for them.

However, there is a big difference for people that are working from my (in this case, Ontarians') tax dollars. As a taxpayer, I am their employer so it very much matters how much they get paid and what valuable work they do in return for the money they are taking from me. The only people I care about wrt how much money they make and how they spend their time are public servants, because I pay them.
If it were up to the public ttc workers would make $14 an hour. Admins would make the same i guess. Engineers for the city would make MAX $20.

Let them make their $$$, continue to grind away like many of us and aim for it.

No need to put a dollar sign on another human.
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flyingnurse wrote: If it were up to the public ttc workers would make $14 an hour. Admins would make the same i guess. Engineers for the city would make MAX $20.

Let them make their $$$, continue to grind away like many of us and aim for it.

No need to put a dollar sign on another human.
Well no, because there could be a sort of market balance in even government jobs. Since I'm their employer, I decide what they earn. If public services start becoming unsatisfactory, and they are having a hard time recruiting employees, then obviously their wages need to be raised. Since public service seems to be the golden seat, it's fair to say that market forces have zero impact in determining their salaries...electioneering politicians do. That's wrong.

They should earn what they are worth and what their services are worth, nothing more and nothing less. That would be determined by how well public services are being distributed/performed and adjustments would be made accordingly. Every public servant I've ever met has shown to be earning far more than the worth they are providing though, and there's nothing to address that gap.

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