Wheels and Tires

Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, Pilot Super Sport, etc

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Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, Pilot Super Sport, etc

Need advice from guys w performance tires experience, because I'm just in a fog haha. I've always bought Michelin PSS cuz that's the recommended go-to performance tire. Due to oos issues, I have PSS up front and the 4S in the rear for my RWD car (E89 Z4, staggered setup 225 front, 255 rear), and my rears are in need of replacement. It's a little pita because the rears wear much faster than my fronts and ideally if I wanted a different brand/model I could switch all 4 but obviously can't here.

Anyway, I never paid much attn to the prices but it's about ~$450 per tire(!) all-in (install/balance/taxes) and I'm wondering if there are better options out there. I don't track my car at all. Right now, I'm limited to what's compatible w my front PSSs but if you have any great bang-for-buck choices, lemme know (how do you go about if you wanted to switch to totally different tires, just sell the 2 remaining on kijiji?). TIA for your views.
Last edited by tranquility922 on Apr 15th, 2021 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Are you staggered? If not than rotating tires regularly front to back will even your wear. Firestone Firehawk INDY 500 and Falken FK510 are both very good for the price from my personal experience I'd recommend the INDY 500. Your not going to notice a huge difference between INDY 500 and PS4S on the street for the price of 2 PS4S you might be able to replace with 4 INDY 500.
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kev604 wrote: Are you staggered? If not than rotating tires regularly front to back will even your wear. Firestone Firehawk INDY 500 and Falken FK510 are both very good for the price from my personal experience I'd recommend the INDY 500. Your not going to notice a huge difference between INDY 500 and PS4S on the street for the price of 2 PS4S you might be able to replace with 4 INDY 500.
Darn, I forgot to mentioned I'm staggered. Tx for the reco, will look into them.
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Continental ExtremeContact Sport is a great alternative to the pricier Michelins
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Like I said for the price of a pair of PS4S you might be able to pick up a set if 4 INDY 500 or Falken FK510 your not going to notice much of a difference on the street but you'll notice a difference in your pocketbook. Extreme Contact and PZero are excellent tires too and I highly recommend them if you've got some money to burn but again probably more than what you need based on your application. INDY 500 have a aggressive looking tread pattern too looks good on any car.

https://m.tirerack.com/videos/amp/playe ... k+Indy+500

https://m.tirerack.com/videos/amp/playe ... Type=Short
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derass wrote: Anything from this list would work with your front PSS since they're all in the same performance category. Looks like Continental and Pirelli are a bit cheaper than Michelin.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyre ... iameter=17
Viperoni wrote: Continental ExtremeContact Sport is a great alternative to the pricier Michelins
kev604 wrote: Like I said for the price of a pair of PS4S you might be able to pick up a set if 4 INDY 500 or Falken FK510 your not going to notice much of a difference on the street but you'll notice a difference in your pocketbook. Extreme Contact and PZero are excellent tires too and I highly recommend them if you've got some money to burn but again probably more than what you need based on your application. INDY 500 have a aggressive looking tread pattern too looks good on any car.

https://m.tirerack.com/videos/amp/playe ... k+Indy+500

https://m.tirerack.com/videos/amp/playe ... Type=Short
Tx guys, I'll look into those. Unfortunately, the links aren't working.

I'm just concerned about mixing my front PSS w other brands for the rear, but there's no concern at all? I never mixed tires before so I dunno, have you guys done it and felt anything different?
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tranquility922 wrote: Tx guys, I'll look into those. Unfortunately, the links aren't working.

I'm just concerned about mixing my front PSS w other brands for the rear, but there's no concern at all? I never mixed tires before so I dunno, have you guys done it and felt anything different?
You should never mix tires especially high performance tires handling won't be uniform making the car unpredictable. To a lesser extent same tires with different levels of treadwear can exhibit those issues too.
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tranquility922 wrote: Tx guys, I'll look into those. Unfortunately, the links aren't working.
Go to Tirerack >Tires > Find > By Tire Category

Tirerack is always my first stop for tire research.

You will see that Michelin PSS/4S are "Max Performance Summer". Anything else in that category would be a comparable replacement. You will also see that Firehawk Indy 500 and FK510 are in the lower "Ultra High Performance Summer" category. You gain treadlife at the expense of grip.
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kev604 wrote: You should never mix tires especially high performance tires handling won't be uniform making the car unpredictable. To a lesser extent same tires with different levels of treadwear can exhibit those issues too.
Tx, that's what I assumed but (unless I read derass' post wrongly) it was said I could mix w other tires?

derass wrote: Anything from this list would work with your front PSS since they're all in the same performance category. Looks like Continental and Pirelli are a bit cheaper than Michelin.

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyre ... iameter=17
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I'm sure any car manufacturer or tire manufacture will tell you that the 4 tires MUST match. How much of a real-world effect that will have is a different story.

I don't know about making the car unpredictable. Changing it's handling characteristics slightly, sure. But from then on, it's going to be the same every time (predictable).

I'm sure there are people out there driving around on 4 mistmatched tires, probably with the cords showing on one, and a bubbled sidewall on the other, and their cars aren't exploding into flames as they drive to the liquor store.
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derass wrote: I'm sure any car manufacturer or tire manufacture will tell you that the 4 tires MUST match. How much of a real-world effect that will have is a different story.

I don't know about making the car unpredictable. Changing it's handling characteristics slightly, sure. But from then on, it's going to be the same every time (predictable).

I'm sure there are people out there driving around on 4 mistmatched tires, probably with the cords showing on one, and a bubbled sidewall on the other, and their cars aren't exploding into flames as they drive to the liquor store.
Have you personally mixed and were the results good?
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All the time with my RWD track car. That's when you can tell the differences in handling.

You won't be able to tell putting around on the street. You're talking about the smallest of differences between two tires in the same performance category.

You might be able to tell a difference if it was something extreme. Like your PSS in the front, and some winter tires in the rear.
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derass wrote: All the time with my RWD track car. That's when you can tell the differences in handling.

You won't be able to tell putting around on the street. You're talking about the smallest of differences between two tires in the same performance category.

You might be able to tell a difference if it was something extreme. Like your PSS in the front, and some winter tires in the rear.
Tx, that gives me some confidence. Still, I haven't found anything online support this view, but many opposing it though, so hence my concern.
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derass wrote: Go to Tirerack >Tires > Find > By Tire Category

Tirerack is always my first stop for tire research.

You will see that Michelin PSS/4S are "Max Performance Summer". Anything else in that category would be a comparable replacement. You will also see that Firehawk Indy 500 and FK510 are in the lower "Ultra High Performance Summer" category. You gain treadlife at the expense of grip.
Based on OP street application I doubt he is going to notice much if any difference between those tires. He is never going to get anywhere near the limits of any of those tires on the street.
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PSS are the outgoing model compared to the 4S which outperforms it in all regards. I'd feel more confident sticking with the two if you were to mix again.

Indy 500s are a good budget tire, they have stiffer sidewalls than the Michelins. They have weaker wet performance which is where you end up saving $$.

The FK510s I'd probably stay away from as the sidewalls are soft and mixing the two tires would probably be bad for handling/feel with the front and the back behaving differently. A full set would be fine, all though again if you like crisp turn in feel these probably aren't for you.

I am about to mount a set of Yokohama advan V105s. They were comparable to the PSS as the released around the same time. No idea if yoko has updated them since 2013 behind the scenes. Sidewalls are reasonably stiff as well. They're listed at a 240 treadwear but those numbers can be misleading. My stock primacy HP tires on factory wheels are also 240 and are nowhere as grippy as the Indy 500s which are a 340TW.


The Conti extreme contact sports are 90% a PS4S for less $$. You can find the Falken rt615k for dirt cheap as they're the outgoing 200TW tire replaced by the RT660. Overkill for a street car but figured I'd throw it out there.
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If you're thinking about swapping rears only the general rule of thumb is to try to run the same tire all around. You should be able to get by with two different brands, but I would just consider changing all 4 if you can afford it. IMO you won't feel the difference too much if you're just using the car for regular commuting unless you buy a considerably inferior tire to PSS (discontinued anyway).
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If budget is not an issue then PS4S is the best for daily sports by far IMO, but are also the most expensive lol.

If you want budget I've been very happy with my FK510's, but I would go all 4 corners not just the rears. I wouldn't go Indy 500s because of poor wet weather performance, but that's just me.

Conti has some new performance tires that are supposed to be very good, but I haven't used them yet.

I personally would not want to have different tires front/rear.
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MyGoToUserName wrote: PSS are the outgoing model compared to the 4S which outperforms it in all regards. I'd feel more confident sticking with the two if you were to mix again.

Indy 500s are a good budget tire, they have stiffer sidewalls than the Michelins. They have weaker wet performance which is where you end up saving $$.

The FK510s I'd probably stay away from as the sidewalls are soft and mixing the two tires would probably be bad for handling/feel with the front and the back behaving differently. A full set would be fine, all though again if you like crisp turn in feel these probably aren't for you.

I am about to mount a set of Yokohama advan V105s. They were comparable to the PSS as the released around the same time. No idea if yoko has updated them since 2013 behind the scenes. Sidewalls are reasonably stiff as well. They're listed at a 240 treadwear but those numbers can be misleading. My stock primacy HP tires on factory wheels are also 240 and are nowhere as grippy as the Indy 500s which are a 340TW.


The Conti extreme contact sports are 90% a PS4S for less $$. You can find the Falken rt615k for dirt cheap as they're the outgoing 200TW tire replaced by the RT660. Overkill for a street car but figured I'd throw it out there.
I've been running a set of INDY 500 on my wife's car for a few years now and driven them through the worst rain that Vancouver weather can throw at them and speaking from experience they are excellent in the wet.

The Falken FK510 cost a fraction of the PS4S but offer high level of performance. I had a set of Falken FK453 before it was superseded by the FK510 it was an excellent street tire.


The Yokohama V105 have been around for a while they were good tires for their time than I think they were replaced by the Fleva V701 also a good tire. I picked up a set of the new Yokohama Advan Apex v601 from Quattro tires it is supposed to be their best street tire yet going to have them mounted next Friday can't wait to give them a go.

Take any treadwear rating with a grain of salt there is no industry standard for measuring treadwear rating so basically the manufacturer does its own tests and determines its own numbers.

RT660 is a track tire I doubt you'll get 2 summers out of them. Amazing dry grip but not the best on wet. If you daily your car than these won't make sense.
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Lots of great posts here. I'm just getting confused though. Some say it's ok to mix, some say no way! Falkens, Contis, Indys *head spinning* lol.

I'm just wondering if I am overspending for something I'm not really using. Supposedly the PSS/4S are the best but I'm not going hard on the streets, so will all those advantages even be manifested? I actually never noticed before and need to check my old bills, but $450/tire seems pretty steep, I don't remember a pair being close to $1K before, not to mention it seems they wore out quite fast(!) compare to previous times.

Ideally, I would like to SAFELY mix because I don't want to bother going on kijiji to sell my remaining front PSSs or having them 'wasted' if I must get a full set.

WWYD guys if you were me? What rears or all 4 would you get? Maybe I'll start a poll, these are the candidates so far?
.Indy 500
.Yoko Advan V105
.Falken FK510
.Michelin 4S
.Conti Extreme CS
+whether to mix or not
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