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More Weeds than grass, What to do?

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[OP]
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Jul 19, 2007
397 posts
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Markham

More Weeds than grass, What to do?

My Backyard has grown more weeds than the grass itself and now I personally have given up on pulling them off as there are so many. Even if I pull some of them there are a few huge patches of carpet weeds which grow sideways and are taking over more grass areas. What options do I have I personally it has gone beyond the DIY project scope. Can the lawns be revived when there is a like a 50/50 grass/weeds ratio area wise. If I hire weedman will they be able to target weeds and I can reseed? Please advise this is the 3rd year with my new house so the quality of groundfill underneath is pretty bad filled with stones and brick pieces. Any expert advice please help? Thanks.
Thread Summary
Basic maintenance of existing grass:

1. Water regularly, grass needs ~1-1.5 inches of water a week. Can see how much water your sprinkler puts down by using a couple of tuna cans, running sprinkler for a set period then measuring water depth. Most people are surprised how little is put down when they measure. Best time to water is early morning before heat of the day - less water lost to evaporation and less risk of fungus - and generally better to water heavier 1-2x/week than more often and lightly, as frequent shallow watering reduces drought tolerance.

2. Mow at a fairly high setting - most northern grass likes being cut at 2-3.5 inches high, and weed seeds hate it. Mow regularly with sharp blades, so that you generally don't cut off more than ~1/3 of the grass height each time you cut to avoid stressing grass. If you have to hack it down from a high height, do it in two or more mows spaced a couple of days apart. Generally, leave the clippings mulched instead of bagging them unless it's a lot of clippings that might smother grass - clippings return nutrients to the soil, reduce weed pressure (unless you're mowing weed seeds) and it's just easier.

Infrequent maintenance of existing grass:

1. If your soil is compacted, then consider core aeration. A big machine pulls plugs out of the ground that can be raked up or left to degrade back into dirt. This loosens the soil and improves air, water and nutrient penetration. It also breaks up light thatch (a mass of dead stems and roots that can mess with the top of the soil in excess). Many people do it annually, usually every couple years is fine.

2. Dethatching is the use of a manual rake (if in shape!) or a power rake to remove surface debris and thatch from the soil, exposing dirt. This is usually not needed for regular lawn maintenance, as most northern grasses don't make a ton of thatch, but is useful when cleaning up debris, before seeding and to help a neglected lawn as a one-off. A bit of thatch isn't bad, a lot is a problem.

3. A soil test is when you get a sample (or several samples) of your lawn soil (often mixed together) and send the bag to a soil testing lab. They will check it for pH, organic matter, nutrient levels, major minerals, etc. Finding out what's wrong with your dirt lets you fix it, which will drastically improve the quality of your grass (and your other plants). Best time to check is in early spring before you've applied fertilizer (fertilizer can mess with the tests).

4. Topdressing is the practice of applying a thin layer of soil to the top of the lawn. Generally it comes in two types - a soil high in mineral content (like sandy topsoil) that fills low spots and makes the lawn more levels, and topdressing compost, which has poor leveling but will improve your soil and add nutrients. Generally you cut your grass quite short, apply it in piles, rake it around using a wide, flat rake (landscaping rake, levelling rake) and move it around until your grass blades poke through. You want to do 1/4 to 1/2 inch, no more - more than 1/2 inch can kill the grass.

Fertilizing grass:

1. Fertilizing grass is easy. Don't pay someone. If you have done a soil test (and you did do one, right?) then you'll know what to do - if you don't, post here. If you didn't do one, then you can use a general lawn fertilizer high in nitrogen and low in phosphorus and potassium, as grass is a leafy plant that mostly needs nitrogen. Generally you apply 0.5-1lb/100sqft of nitrogen (so a 33% nitrogen fertilizer would be 3lbs/1000sqft), spaced 6-8 weeks apart for a total of 2-5lbs of nitrogen a year. Generally 2-4 applications is enough per year, starting from when the grass has started greening up and ending as the grass begins to stop growing, maybe taking it easy on the fertilizer in the summer heat.

2. To fertilize, get a broadcast spreader (handheld if < 4000sqft lawn, push spreader (not Scott's, their wheel design is flawed) if > 4000sqft. Buy whatever fertilizer you like, synthetic is cheaper and faster, organic is harder to mess up. Put in a measured amount. Walk at a normal pace, follow bag settings and directions. Again, this is easy.

Seeding grass:

1. Not every grass is seeded. some is sodded, using rolls of grass and dirt and laying them on top of bare ground. Sod gives you 'instant grass', and it's easier than seeding. It costs much more though. Basically you remove existing grass and dirt down to an inch below where you want the lawn height to be (and this is your chance to improve the dirt if you want to), then you apply the sod rolls as soon as you get them (must be applied within a few hours of receipt, it dies fast), lay them like bricks with no gaps at all, pushed firmly into the dirt to get good contact, then water heavily until soaked and then water 1-2x/day until it's rooted and the sod won't easily lift up. Don't walk on it until rooted, usually takes a few weeks. Don't fertilize it until it's rooted. Cut it kinda high for a while. Most sod is a sun-loving grass called kentucky bluegrass, so generally not a great choice for shade unless you buy something that's listed as a 'shade grass'.

2. To seed grass, you have four times: first is seeding end of summer to early fall when the nights have started to cool and the heat isn't quite so bad. This is the best time to seed grass, because it'll have all fall and all spring to grow before the summer hits. Second is spring seeding, where you seed as soon as the weather warms up enough for grass to grow, usually soil temps of ~55F, or when the forsythias on your street start to bloom. Spring seeding tends to die due to it begin too new for the summer without a lot of luck and babying. Third way is dormant seeding, where you broadcast grass seed in the late fall to early spring when it's still too cold for it to germinate and turn into grass. This is a handy trick as it's less work than other seeding and you get grass growing a bit earlier in the spring, but it's prone to crop failure. Fourth is kind of a subtype - you soak the grass seed in daily changed water from anywhere from a couple days to a week or more (depending on grass type), then you take it out, drain it until it's half-dry, then mix it with dirt for patching or lots of organic fertilizer for broadcast spreading. Perk of this way is it starts growing as soon as you put it down, saving you a lot of time, water and risk.

3. To dive into the process, first you remove debris from your lawn, second you cut the existing grass quite short (maybe 2 inches), all at once to stress it. Then you level low spots with topsoil, then you apply seed in a broadcaster, then you apply something on top of the seed to retain moisture, hide it from critters and improve germination (like peat moss). Then you have to lightly water it minimum 2x/day, keeping the seedbed moist until the slowest seeds have popped (about three weeks). The watering is a pain, but if you forget a day and it gets baked then your grass seed will die so keep it up and maybe buy a watering timer or something. Keep on mowing the existing grass fairly short until the grass seed has popped and then slightly increase cutting height by a half inch and keep it there until the new grass has all come in. Once it's all an inch high or more, can reduce the watering to first 1x/day for a few days, then every other day, then back to usual schedule.

4. What seed to buy? Well buy the good stuff, which means good quality seed suited to your site conditions. Don't get the cheapest seed on clearance at Walmart, the grass won't perform as well and it'll have weeds in it. Don't get sunny mix for your shady yard. Even good seed isn't that expensive.

Weed control

1. In most of Canada (Ontario East), most good chemical weed control options have been banned (despite weak evidence for it, but I digress). You can get it from the West or from the US, but use knowing that although quite rarely enforced it is illegal to use most of the 'good stuff'.

2. Options that exist legally Canada-wide include a pea hormone based spray by wilson (which is a sluggish version of 'the good stuff'), or iron-based sprays that will knock back mature broadleaf weeds and might kill baby broadleaf weeds but don't pack to-the-root killing power, requiring frequent reapplication.

3. If you want a 'kill all plants' chemical, use glyphosate. The other options don't kill to the root well. The concentrate is cheaper and you can adjust strength. Wear clothes and don't bathe in it and you'll be fine, it works great. Takes ~2 weeks to really kick in, but those plants will die if you get it all over their leaves.

4. The 'good stuff' for weeds is 2-4D, or a blend of herbicides containing 2-4D like trimec, weed-b-gon, etc. It kills broadleaf plants but leaves grassy plants alone (unless they're seedlings, don't spray on new grass or in the two weeks before planting). Read directions.

Bug control

1. There are many bugs that eat grass. First is grubs, white gross things that turn into beetles. Webworms are caterpillars that turn into moths. Chinch bugs are little crawling bugs that eat grass juice. Ants can mess with grass too. You can kill them on contact with a spray of water mixed with a tiny dash of surfactant (like a tiny squirt of jet-dri) or a squirt of dish soap. If you have access to US 'good stuff', then you can use grub preventer (use in early July) or 24-hour grub killer (use in late spring). If you only have access to nematodes, then buy fresh ones end of June or early July, store in fridge, wait until evening when sun is setting, water grass, spray nematodes then water grass heavily again and keep grass wet for three days. Or apply them in the rain then keep it wet. They kinda work on new grubs, don't at all on mature ones.

Common issues

1. My grass won’t grow in the shade!

Well, grass all needs at least ‘part sun’, or a few hours of direct sun a day. Some grass needs 7h+, some can handle as little as 5 and be fine, but it needs at least some sun. Grass is not a deep shade plant. So buy the most shade tolerant grass you can, baby it in every other way, and cut it hog so it has long blades to catch any light it can. If it is under trees then prune the trees to let some light hit the ground, and your grass might been more water and nutrients at margin as it is fighting with tree roots. If you really can’t get light though, just do something else.

2. My grass is dying in patches!

Well, first give it a tug. If it comes up like a carpet with no roots, you have root-eating insects and must address. If the blades are discoloured (slimy, dusty red, blackened, yellow) then you might have fungus - reduce watering frequency, avoid fertilizers and pray (unless you have a US fungicide, in which case use it ASAP). Fungus isn’t as bad here as in the US southeast with long hot wet seasons but it happens. Also, you may not be watering the whole lawn - check coverage.

3. My grass has brown tips!

Sharpen your mower blade, it’s dull and tearing the blades. You should sharpen every year or every 20 hours of use, whichever comes first.

4. It’s summertime, should I seed?

No. It’ll die.

5. I won’t water regularly, should I seed?

No, it’ll die, though you could try dormant seeding and get lucky.

Good luck and keep on learning and having fun! Ask questions here, share stories, post pictures, participate and when you've developed some expertise please give back to the community and keep the cycle going.
7520 replies
Deal Addict
Feb 3, 2008
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Winnipeg
Use killex. Then add topsoil and reseed the areas after the weeds have died.
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Aug 12, 2006
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Blame Municipal and Ontario ban on pesticide. But yours is not only one. There are lots and will see same around any road and municipal properties.
get started working right now. Its tiring, frustrating but with no alternative.
There was a series on CTV and CBC about this few months back. Some sores still have this stuff to kill the weeds they said.

Dont know how good is this.
Green Earth Weed and Grass Killer RTU - 1 Litre
[IMG]http://www.homedepot.ca/wcsstore/HomeDe ... LRTU_4.jpg[/IMG]
Ban Steve Downie from NHL
Self Proclaimed PYwner Late Miss. Masco:My Gramma is gooder than your typos Says GrammerNazi.
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[OP]
Member
Jul 19, 2007
397 posts
106 upvotes
Markham
Thanks all for valuable tips. I have taken an appointment with Weedman to come and quote on the Weed removal treatment. I am hoping that they are able eliminate weeds more effectively than a newbie such as myself. I am holding off on reseeding until the weeds are controlled cause I feel there is no sense in seeding the land which is filled with weeds better to clear them first.
Has anyone had an experience with Weedman and their treatments and how effective they are? My land is about 20X10 in the front and 30X42 feet in the back. Also what would be an estimated cost of weedman service for weeds? Just want to get the feel as this will be my first quote ever so has no clue.
Thanks all.
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Dec 31, 2007
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Richmond Hill
resan wrote: Thanks all for valuable tips. I have taken an appointment with Weedman to come and quote on the Weed removal treatment. I am hoping that they are able eliminate weeds more effectively than a newbie such as myself. I am holding off on reseeding until the weeds are controlled cause I feel there is no sense in seeding the land which is filled with weeds better to clear them first.
Has anyone had an experience with Weedman and their treatments and how effective they are? My land is about 20X10 in the front and 30X42 feet in the back. Also what would be an estimated cost of weedman service for weeds? Just want to get the feel as this will be my first quote ever so has no clue.
Thanks all.

:facepalm:

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/careful-weedman-253023/
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Aug 12, 2006
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Check this from CTV 6.00 news today.

Growing the greenest lawn

Tom Hayes investigates several tricks on how Toronto residents can grow a green lawn this spring.
Ban Steve Downie from NHL
Self Proclaimed PYwner Late Miss. Masco:My Gramma is gooder than your typos Says GrammerNazi.
smitty9999 on saving power: nooB Powers on the PC just to post stfu.
board123:when challenged runs away as fast as it can, hide behind mommy.
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Dec 12, 2009
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champlinD wrote: Check this from CTV 6.00 news today.

Growing the greenest lawn

Tom Hayes investigates several tricks on how Toronto residents can grow a green lawn this spring.

Lawn envy what! I spend an inordinate amount of time, seeding, weeding, cutting. My neighbor's lawn compares to a city park. There are people out there who just don't care. My next strategy is to look after his lawn as well.
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Aug 29, 2001
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I remember once seeing an add on the internet about a weed killer that used something like a long drill bit with an 'agitator' at the bottom designed to dig in and rip up the root.

Its hard to mass kill weeds without pesticide. Weedman won't get rid of weeds anymore without pesticides - they will apply 'natural' stuff that could eventually kill the weeds, maybe.

I wait for dandelion season (now) and rip 'em up with a puller (cover the holes with dirt+grass seed) and spray the iron based weed killer on the stuff to that can't be pulled easily.
Deal Fanatic
Jun 7, 2005
9951 posts
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Toronto
resan wrote: My Backyard has grown more weeds than the grass itself and now I personally have given up on pulling them off as there are so many. Even if I pull some of them there are a few huge patches of carpet weeds which grow sideways and are taking over more grass areas. What options do I have I personally it has gone beyond the DIY project scope. Can the lawns be revived when there is a like a 50/50 grass/weeds ratio area wise. If I hire weedman will they be able to target weeds and I can reseed? Please advise this is the 3rd year with my new house so the quality of groundfill underneath is pretty bad filled with stones and brick pieces. Any expert advice please help? Thanks.

Yes, same here. My backyard is not bad, but the huge front corner lawn is full of different kinds of weeds. It ruins the look of the landscaping. The grass itself is not strong and dense either. I remember I literally pulled out hundreds of weeds every time last year. I am giving up this year and will be meeting a lawn care company. But don't how much they will charge and whether they can make a difference. One of my neighbours use full lawn care services, but their lawn isn't a lot greener than mine.

Like I said the problem for me is front lawn. I think even I cleared all weeds from my front lawn, they will still be spreaded from neighbours' lawn again……. The backyard is enclosed, thus not many weeds at all.
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Oct 1, 2008
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rdx wrote: Like I said the problem for me is front lawn. I think even I cleared all weeds from my front lawn, they will still be spreaded from neighbours' lawn again……. The backyard is enclosed, thus not many weeds at all.

I don't know if this is helping or not but one thing I'm doing this year is when my neighbors let their dandelions grow, I rip off the yellow flowers as soon as I see them. That way they can't go to seed and spread... that's the theory anyway.
Deal Addict
Mar 11, 2006
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champlinD wrote: Check this from CTV 6.00 news today.

Growing the greenest lawn

Tom Hayes investigates several tricks on how Toronto residents can grow a green lawn this spring.

Thanks champlinD. I unfortunately have the dandelion infested version of the lawn at the end of the report, but will follow their instructions.
Member
Oct 1, 2008
387 posts
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Toronto, ON
aliikram wrote: Thanks champlinD. I unfortunately have the dandelion infested version of the lawn at the end of the report, but will follow their instructions.

Drive to Buffalo or Niagra Falls New York and purchase some weed killer there for your lawn and the problem will be solved. It is not illegal to purchase or bring it back here. It is against the law to use it on your lawn though.
Deal Expert
Oct 20, 2001
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Sauga
Today is a great time to pull weeds in the GTA. The ground is completely soaked with all the rain we've had, so the roots can come out pretty easily. I pulled a bunch of dandelion and thistle from my backyard last night and got plenty of roots that were almost a foot long. :confused: The more of the root you can get, the better. It can take a really long time on a big yard, though...depends on how much area you have.

And beyond that, the most important thing is to maintain healthy grass. So you'll need to aerate, re-seed, fertilize, water deeply but not too frequently, mow on a high setting, mow regularly, etc.
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Dec 31, 2007
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Rehan wrote: Today is a great time to pull weeds in the GTA. The ground is completely soaked with all the rain we've had, so the roots can come out pretty easily. I pulled a bunch of dandelion and thistle from my backyard last night and got plenty of roots that were almost a foot long. :confused: The more of the root you can get, the better. It can take a really long time on a big yard, though...depends on how much area you have.

And beyond that, the most important thing is to maintain healthy grass. So you'll need to aerate, re-seed, fertilize, water deeply but not too frequently, mow on a high setting, mow regularly, etc.

+1 did some pulling last night after work before the rain. Will be doing more this evening.
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Aug 12, 2006
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Rehan wrote: Today is a great time to pull weeds in the GTA. The ground is completely soaked with all the rain we've had, so the roots can come out pretty easily. I pulled a bunch of dandelion and thistle from my backyard last night and got plenty of roots that were almost a foot long. :confused: The more of the root you can get, the better. It can take a really long time on a big yard, though...depends on how much area you have.

And beyond that, the most important thing is to maintain healthy grass. So you'll need to aerate, re-seed, fertilize, water deeply but not too frequently, mow on a high setting, mow regularly, etc.
Yeah. I did same last evening...just before game started...
some the roots were real thick, was difficult to remove by hand. remaining will be done today evening.
Ban Steve Downie from NHL
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I'm beginning that it is not possible to get rid of these... :( Might be possible to win a few battles, but they come back with reinforcements. I pull, cover, seed their holes, but I cannot seem to get rid of them. Right now, if I look in my yard, I could cry. All the hard work that I put into getting rid of them, and how many are out there now waving at me... it seems to no avail.

[IMG]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/37/10476 ... 6b5b_z.jpg[/IMG]
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One season is a battle. It takes many battles to win the war. This is the truth, not an analogy. :)
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koffey wrote: I'm beginning that it is not possible to get rid of these... :( Might be possible to win a few battles, but they come back with reinforcements. I pull, cover, seed their holes, but I cannot seem to get rid of them. Right now, if I look in my yard, I could cry. All the hard work that I put into getting rid of them, and how many are out there now waving at me... it seems to no avail.
That's when I look around the neighborhood and find other people's houses with lawns that look worse than mine. Then I can say "Well, at least I'm not as bad as that guy" and that makes me feel a little bit better. :razz:

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