Real Estate

[ON] MPAC 2016 Property Assessment Thread (share your pain)

  • Last Updated:
  • Apr 18th, 2016 3:14 pm
Tags:
None
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Nov 24, 2013
6214 posts
2967 upvotes
Kingston, ON

[ON] MPAC 2016 Property Assessment Thread (share your pain)

Well, my fellow Ontarians, we're about to feel our quadrennial pain! MPAC has begun the process of mailing out 2016 property assessment notices for the 2017-2020 property tax years. Barrie/Orillia will be the first to receive their bad news. Full schedule here:

https://www.aboutmyproperty.ca/pdf/Noti ... ule_en.pdf

I'm not sure how mine's going to work May 9th. I appealed my assessment on my new build property and my RfR is still being reviewed. I can't even log in to check the status of that anymore as they've revamped the website and you can't log in until you get your new assessment.
35 replies
Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2014
830 posts
296 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
i'm expecting to pay a few hundred dollars more each year. hopefully not more than $500.
Banned
Dec 5, 2015
2038 posts
429 upvotes
Concord, ON
You guys do know property taxes won't go up just from higher assessment right?

Property tax depends on the budget and any increases from municipality and the mill rate along with the value of all properties in the municipality

If the increase in value of your home is same % as municipal average... Your taxes stay same assuming no budget increases or if there are..same % as budget increases

You would only feel "pain" if the % increase in your assesed value went up higher than avwehae
Deal Addict
May 18, 2005
3412 posts
358 upvotes
GrandePike wrote: You guys do know property taxes won't go up just from higher assessment right?

Property tax depends on the budget and any increases from municipality and the mill rate along with the value of all properties in the municipality

If the increase in value of your home is same % as municipal average... Your taxes stay same assuming no budget increases or if there are..same % as budget increases

You would only feel "pain" if the % increase in your assesed value went up higher than avwehae
not sure what you mean but property tax=(assessed value) times (property tax rate). it is almost guaranteed that property tax rate won't go down so if assessed value increases then your property tax goes up too.
Deal Addict
Mar 10, 2011
2321 posts
436 upvotes
Toronto
LoveRFD wrote: not sure what you mean but property tax=(assessed value) times (property tax rate). it is almost guaranteed that property tax rate won't go down so if assessed value increases then your property tax goes up too.
GrandePike is correct. It is not guranteed that your property tax will go up. Theoretically if the value of all properties in the municipality went up by the same percentage, (and there was no increase in the municipalty budget), then there would be no tax increase on any of the properties as the tax rate would be reduced.

In practice however, some hot neighbourhoods where properties increase in value more, will get tax increases and some neighbourhoods where the increase in value is less, would see a reduction in taxes. Municipality budgets go up a few percent each year so some properties who might have had a tax reduction might not see it.
Newbie
Oct 9, 2013
99 posts
19 upvotes
Gloucester, ON
Also interesting to note, reading on the MPAC website, it looks like you'll be able to see a lot more information about other homes around you.
I'm interested in checking out that feature.
Banned
Dec 5, 2015
2038 posts
429 upvotes
Concord, ON
LoveRFD wrote: not sure what you mean but property tax=(assessed value) times (property tax rate). it is almost guaranteed that property tax rate won't go down so if assessed value increases then your property tax goes up too.
Wrong

Property tax = mill rate x assessed value

Do you think the city just gets 30% more revenue if average assesed values goes up 30%?

City determine their budget and what if any increase...so they work out how much revenue they need..then they look at the assessed values of their tax base to determine the mill rate x assessed values which will get them the revenue they need
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
5985 posts
3165 upvotes
Thornhill
GrandePike wrote: You guys do know property taxes won't go up just from higher assessment right?

Property tax depends on the budget and any increases from municipality and the mill rate along with the value of all properties in the municipality

If the increase in value of your home is same % as municipal average... Your taxes stay same assuming no budget increases or if there are..same % as budget increases

You would only feel "pain" if the % increase in your assessed value went up higher than avwehae
That's the line municipalities love to use. Yet, while mill rates can actually decrease, municipal spending increases as councillors see fit ans the tax payable still ends up costing a homeonwer more than the previous year.

It's all carefully calculated after all. Cities will take advantage of whatever valuation increases will produce an increase to the tax coffers and still be able to rightly claim and sell it on the basis that the mill rate actually decreased.

The bottom line to the homeowner is still an increase to their tax liability.
Newbie
Jul 16, 2014
8 posts
2 upvotes
London, ON
April 18th Yay?!? I need to look at a re-assessment EDIT: I have been looking at it for some time but the process seems horrible since its hard to find comparable homes in the boonies~!
Sr. Member
Aug 6, 2014
830 posts
296 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
GrandePike wrote: You guys do know property taxes won't go up just from higher assessment right?

Property tax depends on the budget and any increases from municipality and the mill rate along with the value of all properties in the municipality

If the increase in value of your home is same % as municipal average... Your taxes stay same assuming no budget increases or if there are..same % as budget increases

You would only feel "pain" if the % increase in your assesed value went up higher than avwehae
i don't quite follow.. ottawa has a property tax calculator that seems to depend entirely on assessed value:

https://app06.ottawa.ca/cgi-bin/tax/tax.pl?lang=en

maybe it's different elsewhere?
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Nov 24, 2013
6214 posts
2967 upvotes
Kingston, ON
Saleshrink wrote: Also interesting to note, reading on the MPAC website, it looks like you'll be able to see a lot more information about other homes around you.
I'm interested in checking out that feature.
mnagel55 wrote: April 18th Yay?!? I need to look at a re-assessment EDIT: I have been looking at it for some time but the process seems horrible since its hard to find comparable homes in the boonies~!
Before Apr 4, their AboutMyProperty website had interactive maps with info and property assessments on everything near your home. I submitted my Request for Reconsideration online and easily linked neighboring properties that I wanted them to compare against, even being out in the boonies myself.

Hopefully whatever changes they have are even better.
Deal Addict
Apr 22, 2014
3097 posts
468 upvotes
Oshawa, ON
The %rate you see there is what "they" call the MILL RATE.

"They" define PROPERTY TAX as the amount of tax dollars budgeted for collection. "They" are basically just being dicks when they screw with the mill rate and when assessments go up. PROPERTY TAX will never go down. MILL RATE will go up and down as needed to compensate for changes in assessment to ensure that a number at least as small as PROPERTY TAX is collected.

All those words are used to hide the fact that you will never pay less next year than you did this year. "They" are dicks after all.
fisher44 wrote: i don't quite follow.. ottawa has a property tax calculator that seems to depend entirely on assessed value:

https://app06.ottawa.ca/cgi-bin/tax/tax.pl?lang=en

maybe it's different elsewhere?
Banned
Dec 5, 2015
2038 posts
429 upvotes
Concord, ON
fisher44 wrote: i don't quite follow.. ottawa has a property tax calculator that seems to depend entirely on assessed value:

https://app06.ottawa.ca/cgi-bin/tax/tax.pl?lang=en

maybe it's different elsewhere?

Because you are using the same mill rate because it's the same tax year and only variable you're changing is assessed value

Mill rate is set each year depending on budget.. So yes in a given year..higher assesed value results in higher taxes

But mpac is providing assessment values for 2016 and the cities are not using that for current year. Your municipal budget is done yearly
Banned
Dec 5, 2015
2038 posts
429 upvotes
Concord, ON
eldeejay wrote: The %rate you see there is what "they" call the MILL RATE.

"They" define PROPERTY TAX as the amount of tax dollars budgeted for collection. "They" are basically just being dicks when they screw with the mill rate and when assessments go up. PROPERTY TAX will never go down. MILL RATE will go up and down as needed to compensate for changes in assessment to ensure that a number at least as small as PROPERTY TAX is collected.

All those words are used to hide the fact that you will never pay less next year than you did this year. "They" are dicks after all.
??

Why would taxes go down? Does your salary and payments/costs go down yearly?

I can't believe the absolute ignorance and cluelessnees by people on a very simple calculation

No wonder people don't even know how much interest they're paying on their credit cards if they don't even understand basic budgeting and a simple mill rate x assssed values calculations
Banned
Dec 5, 2015
2038 posts
429 upvotes
Concord, ON
licenced wrote: That's the line municipalities love to use. Yet, while mill rates can actually decrease, municipal spending increases as councillors see fit ans the tax payable still ends up costing a homeonwer more than the previous year.

It's all carefully calculated after all. Cities will take advantage of whatever valuation increases will produce an increase to the tax coffers and still be able to rightly claim and sell it on the basis that the mill rate actually decreased.

The bottom line to the homeowner is still an increase to their tax liability.
Cities say nothing about mill rates in news releases...they talk about how much property taxes go up based on budget increases...some will pay more.. Some less depending on whether their property values went up more or less than average assesed values and how much budget went up

But in place like sauga with annual 7% increases due to crumbling infrastructure and insufficient revenues and taxation in past..I don't see how people will pay less even if their assesed values went up less than average
Deal Addict
Apr 22, 2014
3097 posts
468 upvotes
Oshawa, ON
Why shouldn't it go down?

I understand the calculation very well.
I also understand that in order for everyone to pay less, it is a matter of political will only.
Do you work for the government or something? Getting all defensive when someone mentions your revenue stream should be reduced? You people are still outnumbered. Don't forget that.
Here's a simple way to reduce taxes: fire a whole bunch of bureaucrats!

And yes, I do try to make my costs go down over time. It's hard. But mostly it's taxes that keeping going up. You are welcome.
GrandePike wrote: ??

Why would taxes go down? Does your salary and payments/costs go down yearly?

I can't believe the absolute ignorance and cluelessnees by people on a very simple calculation

No wonder people don't even know how much interest they're paying on their credit cards if they don't even understand basic budgeting and a simple mill rate x assssed values calculations
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Nov 24, 2013
6214 posts
2967 upvotes
Kingston, ON
Q: Say a house is assessed $500k. Property tax rate adds up to 1%. Taxes would be $5,000.

Property gets reassessed at $550k, and it increased in line with all other properties in the city, which increased at the same time. The city enacts a 2% property tax increase. What's the new mill/property tax rate, and what is the new property tax paid?


A: All properties in the city had their assessment go up 10%, but the city is "only" increasing property taxes by 2%. To achieve this, the property tax rate actually goes down to 0.92727%, against the new $550,000 valuation, for a total property tax payable of $5,100.


The big "if" in that example is whether the assessment change of the property is in line with the overall assessment change for the municipality. It makes the simple point though that "rates" going down, while assessments go up, doesn't mean a decrease in tax payable.
Banned
Dec 5, 2015
2038 posts
429 upvotes
Concord, ON
eldeejay wrote: Why shouldn't it go down?

I understand the calculation very well.
I also understand that in order for everyone to pay less, it is a matter of political will only.
Do you work for the government or something? Getting all defensive when someone mentions your revenue stream should be reduced? You people are still outnumbered. Don't forget that.
Here's a simple way to reduce taxes: fire a whole bunch of bureaucrats!

And yes, I do try to make my costs go down over time. It's hard. But mostly it's taxes that keeping going up. You are welcome.
Political will?

How are infrastructure maintenance/renewal costs political will?

I'm in engineering doing project management in civil and we do renewal and also new projects including for municipalities... Costs have gone up a lot more than CPI in construction and materials ..how can it possibly go down?

Only way is to defer and/or cancel maintenance, renewal and that just leads to more costly spending down the road

Fire burecrats? Sure.. How many? What would be the impacts? All? Half?

Your absurd suggestion on simple arbitrary layoffs while the pressure is infrastructure renewal shows you don't even have a superficial understanding
Banned
Dec 5, 2015
2038 posts
429 upvotes
Concord, ON
Mike15 wrote: Q: Say a house is assessed $500k. Property tax rate adds up to 1%. Taxes would be $5,000.

Property gets reassessed at $550k, and it increased in line with all other properties in the city, which increased at the same time. The city enacts a 2% property tax increase. What's the new mill/property tax rate, and what is the new property tax paid?


A: All properties in the city had their assessment go up 10%, but the city is "only" increasing property taxes by 2%. To achieve this, the property tax rate actually goes down to 0.92727%, against the new $550,000 valuation, for a total property tax payable of $5,100.


The big "if" in that example is whether the assessment change of the property is in line with the overall assessment change for the municipality. It makes the simple point though that "rates" going down, while assessments go up, doesn't mean a decrease in tax payable.
Its much more simple than that...the simple point is if your house assesed value went up less than average.. You will pay less..if it went up exactly average...it stays same and if it went up more than average you pay more

I mean it's impossible for everybodys assessment to be higher than average... There will be some who pay less and others more depending on the change in assesed values versus the municipal average

Top