Health & Wellness

mRNA Booster shot or Novavax Booster shot efficacy against Delta Variant

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  • Feb 18th, 2022 3:39 am
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Feb 26, 2021
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mRNA Booster shot or Novavax Booster shot efficacy against Delta Variant

I see that mRNA Booster shots will become available starting January 2022 at least in Ontario.

Image

Also, it looks like Novavax is being rolled out in Indonesia and has been submitted for Approval in Canada, which should be available in 2022.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/novavax-covid-vaccine-1.6232507

Does anyone know if there are any studies showing which Booster shot has better efficacy against Delta, and less side effects for the combinations here:

  • Modern (1st) + Modern (2nd) + Moderna (booster)?
  • Pfizer (1st) + Pfizer (2nd) + Pfizer (booster)?
  • Moderna (1st) + Moderna (2nd) + Novavax (booster)?
  • Pfizer (1st) + Pfizer (2nd) + Novavax (booster)?

Also, for mRNA hesitant holdouts like Aaron Rodgers for example, who are not anti-vax, does anyone know the efficacy against Delta Variant for:

  • Novavax (1st) + Novavax (2nd)?
36 replies
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
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There is very little reason to believe that Novavax will be any better vs delta since it is based on the same Wuhan vintage of the virus as the mRNA sequence in Pfizer.

Furthermore we have no idea when Novavax will be receive health Canada approval or if Canada will procure any Novavax.

If you are reaching your 6-8 months, you might as well get whatever is available. If you got an interval less than 8 weeks between dose 1 and 2, I wouldn't push it too far
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
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Poutinesauce wrote: If you're not middle aged, I would wait a while after you're eligible for a booster shot, so that the protection from the booster protect you for longer into the future.
Actually anyone below 70 is reasonably well protected. If you are in your 40s or 50s I wouldn't start panicking yet.

Quebec just released their recommendations.
quebec-covid-booster-shot-age-group-70-75-80-november-9-2021.jpeg
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mr_raider wrote: Actually anyone below 70 is reasonably well protected. If you are in your 40s or 50s I wouldn't start panicking yet.

Quebec just released their recommendations.

quebec-covid-booster-shot-age-group-70-75-80-november-9-2021.jpeg
It's kind of ridiculous because recommendations for boosters and vaccines are all over the place, depending on the various governments and health boards. It's totally arbitrary.

Health Canada has approved Pfizer boosters for all adults aged 18+.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 20, 2018
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Poutinesauce wrote: It's kind of ridiculous because recommendations for boosters and vaccines are all over the place, depending on the various governments and health boards. It's totally arbitrary.

Health Canada has approved Pfizer boosters for all adults aged 18+.
i mean it's always been upto each country's respective health agencies with regards to which meds are approved and under what circumstances and how it should be used/prescribed. I mean, why would canada follow US or mexico and vice versa right?

each health agency is independent and review based on data they've been provided and they source as well as each country's needs which varies
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StatsGuy wrote: i mean it's always been upto each country's respective health agencies with regards to which meds are approved and under what circumstances and how it should be used/prescribed. I mean, why would canada follow US or mexico and vice versa right?

each health agency is independent and review based on data they've been provided and they source as well as each country's needs which varies
It's just difficult to claim to speak authoritatively when all other first world governments come to radically different conclusions with the exact same set of data.

It shows that government decisions are not based on science. They are all arbitrary. They are based on factors like expediency and optics, but not on science. They have no real idea of what they're doing because the conclusions of their so-called expert panels are always radically different.
Deal Addict
Oct 23, 2017
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As I understand it, in Ontario people 70+ are eligible to get the booster this year if they are at least 168 days or more past their second dose. I don't know how they calculate that number as it is less than 6 months which would be 183 days. But that is the number they give me when I try to book on the Ontario Halton region booking site.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
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Dealmaker1945 wrote: As I understand it, in Ontario people 70+ are eligible to get the booster this year if they are at least 168 days or more past their second dose. I don't know how they calculate that number as it is less than 6 months which would be 183 days. But that is the number they give me when I try to book on the Ontario Halton region booking site.
168 days = 24 weeks.
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Manitoba decided that the science indicates them to allow a booster dose to all adults 18+.

Obviously, the other provinces are consulting another type of science.

How do you want people to trust their government in front of blatant inconsistencies like these? They're literally making it up as they go along. As some say black, the others say white.
Deal Addict
Aug 12, 2007
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Poutinesauce wrote: Manitoba decided that the science indicates them to allow a booster dose to all adults 18+.
Obviously, the other provinces are consulting another type of science.
Not sure what you mean.
All provinces will eventually allow booster shots for all adults. It is just a matter of timing and logistics as to which priority group who get it first.
How do you want people to trust their government in front of blatant inconsistencies like these? They're literally making it up as they go along. As some say black, the others say white.
I don't see that at all. They are rolling out booster shots in stages, but different timing and groups in different provinces.
What's wrong with that?
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
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nosnoop wrote: Not sure what you mean.
All provinces will eventually allow booster shots for all adults. It is just a matter of timing and logistics as to which priority group who get it first.


I don't see that at all. They are rolling out booster shots in stages, but different timing and groups in different provinces.
What's wrong with that?
This

Even in the initial vaccine rounds each Province undertook things as they saw the need for their citizens

The order was not necessarily the same in every Province (say old to young )

Some provinces / territories put groups of people higher on their priorities … Native Populations, Homeless People etc
Didn’t matter their ages

Even here in Ontario … there were on a few occasions where a particular COVID HOT SPOT Community got priority over the roll out list order

If one lived in the HOT SPOT Community (organized by Postal Code) … didn’t matter if you were 80+ or just 18 … you got bumped up the Provincial List Order

So while the list may have been Provincially on then vaccinating those 70 years and older … the HOT SPOT for Ontario Postal Code M1X 1X1 was having everyone receiving their shots on a particular week by having Public Health holding Pop Up Clinics in the area … attendees had to present proof of residency, alongside their required ID to qualify

IMO … nothing wrong with any of these measures

If it slows the spread

Same today … I think the Boosters should be distributed first & foremost to those Cdns who need them the most

So if that means another Province than mine sees Boosters first … honestly I am ok with that

It’s stopping spread, and slowing down the disease that matters to me … not that I was further down the list than some other Cdn

My time will come in good measure
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PointsHubby wrote: This

Even in the initial vaccine rounds each Province undertook things as they saw the need for their citizens

The order was not necessarily the same in every Province (say old to young )

Some provinces / territories put groups of people higher on their priorities … Native Populations, Homeless People etc
Didn’t matter their ages

Even here in Ontario … there were on a few occasions where a particular COVID HOT SPOT Community got priority over the roll out list order

If one lived in the HOT SPOT Community (organized by Postal Code) … didn’t matter if you were 80+ or just 18 … you got bumped up the Provincial List Order

So while the list may have been Provincially on then vaccinating those 70 years and older … the HOT SPOT for Ontario Postal Code M1X 1X1 was having everyone receiving their shots on a particular week by having Public Health holding Pop Up Clinics in the area … attendees had to present proof of residency, alongside their required ID to qualify

IMO … nothing wrong with any of these measures

If it slows the spread

Same today … I think the Boosters should be distributed first & foremost to those Cdns who need them the most

So if that means another Province than mine sees Boosters first … honestly I am ok with that

It’s stopping spread, and slowing down the disease that matters to me … not that I was further down the list than some other Cdn

My time will come in good measure
I totally disagree, it's all a waste of time and very inconsistent.

I also think that if the FDA approves a vaccine, Health Canada and all the various bureaucratic commitees should not waste any more time and the vaccine should be used immediately. It's nothing but a hugely redundant waste of time.
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
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Poutinesauce wrote: I totally disagree, it's all a waste of time and very inconsistent.

I also think that if the FDA approves a vaccine, Health Canada and all the various bureaucratic commitees should not waste any more time and the vaccine should be used immediately. It's nothing but a hugely redundant waste of time.
Lol, clearly YOUR COMMENT

Tells me you NEVER even read my comments
:rolleyes:

FYI …
FDA = American Approval Process
Health Canada = CANADIAN Approval Process

Ya think America has such a flawless Covid Record
Then go live there

I am quite happy that this is CANADA and not America

Same virus …
Not the same result at all

Canada = 29,274 Deaths (766 / Million)
USA = 782,283 Deaths (2,345 / Million)

Canada = 75% of total population FULLY Vaccinated
USA = 57% of total population FULLY Vaccinated
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Aug 29, 2012
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PointsHubby wrote: Lol, clearly YOUR COMMENT

Tells me you NEVER even read my comments
:rolleyes:

FYI …
FDA = American Approval Process
Health Canada = CANADIAN Approval Process

Ya think America has such a flawless Covid Record
Then go live there

I am quite happy that this is CANADA and not America

Same virus …
Not the same result at all

Canada = 29,274 Deaths (766 / Million)
USA = 782,283 Deaths (2,345 / Million)

Canada = 75% of total population FULLY Vaccinated
USA = 57% of total population FULLY Vaccinated
It speaks for nothing for the FDA and the CDC's expertise. They are world renowned.

In an emergency situation, Health Canada should not reexamine the same vaccine in a redundant fashion. If the FDA and the CDC approves a vaccine, then let's use it immediately.

We could have started vaccinating children one month earlier. But bureaucrats are going to cost us more cases, more outbreaks, more closed classes and more deaths, for no good reason at all, because it's obvious to anyone with a brain that they will approve the vaccine.
Deal Addict
Aug 12, 2007
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Poutinesauce wrote: In an emergency situation, Health Canada should not reexamine the same vaccine in a redundant fashion. If the FDA and the CDC approves a vaccine, then let's use it immediately.
Sorry, this is just ridiculous.
We are not part of US, and we don't follow FDA/CDC's decision.

Don't forget that Health Canada approved Pfizer vaccine BEFORE US back in Dec 2020.
Deal Addict
Jun 29, 2010
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mr_raider wrote: Furthermore we have no idea when Novavax will be receive health Canada approval or if Canada will procure any Novavax.
Novavax is supposed to be produced in Montreal specifically so that Canadians wouldn't have to rely on vaccines produced in other countries. This doesn't seem to have changed:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal ... -1.6233282
If approved by Health Canada, Novavax vaccine would be manufactured in new Montreal facility
To date, every COVID-19 vaccine that has entered the arm of a Canadian has been produced outside the country.

That is now about to change.

With Novavax filing for approval of its vaccine with Health Canada, Montreal is poised to be the first Canadian city to manufacture a COVID-19 vaccine, though domestically produced shots won't be available until next year.

It is a step that should help keep Canadians vaccinated through this current pandemic, equip the country for the next global health crisis and boost the nation's research and development.

"Having that type of effective vaccine within our borders is going to really allow us to roll this out to the population in a way that can take a bite out of the numbers," said Dr. Sumon Chakrabarti, an infectious diseases specialist at Trillium Health Partners in Mississauga.

Canadian production should start in 2022 at the National Research Council of Canada's Biologics Manufacturing Centre in Montreal.

Once it is up and running, federal officials say the facility should be able to produce 24 million doses of vaccine per year.
Do we need another vaccine?

Canada ordered millions of vaccines and, while the initial rollout was sluggish, deliveries soon outstripped demand.

So why do we need another vaccine? The short answer is boosters and variants — and other potential pandemics.

"This pandemic is not going away any time soon," said John Trizzino, the chief commercial officer and business officer for Novavax in an interview with CBC News in June when the facility was announced.

"We expect that there's going to be a circulation of this continuing through 2022 and 2023. And so therefore, we think it's important that we have enough production capacity in Canada to satisfy that."
Canada was once a front-runner of large-scale vaccine manufacturing and disease eradication, but lost its edge when labs were sold to international pharmaceutical giants in the 80s and 90s.

When COVID-19 vaccines began production, Canada had to rely on foreign manufacturers.

Deals with leading drug companies to produce their vaccines in Canada didn't pan out because the country lacked a facility that could be adequately retrofitted for production.

Once vaccines were approved by Health Canada, deliveries were slowed by supply-chain issues in Europe and political red tape with U.S. manufacturers, according to Chakrabarti.

A domestic facility would ease, if not eliminate, those problems, he said. And because future pandemics are a real possibility, having the ability to produce vaccines domestically would make Canada more independent.

The Montreal facility is a first step toward being self-sufficient in a time of crisis and "being able to hit the ground running and be prepared if anything like this were to occur again," Chakrabarti said.
Moving forward there will be a need for vaccines that are easily accessible, and producing Novavax here is an answer to that, said Chakrabarti.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
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SonyCanWoes wrote: Novavax is supposed to be produced in Montreal specifically so that Canadians wouldn't have to rely on vaccines produced in other countries. This doesn't seem to have changed:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal ... -1.6233282
Whether that will materialize in a reasonable time frame is unknown.

Canada could also purchase the doses and donate them to Coax for all we know.

Plus there is also the big issue that the mRNA vaccines have way more data behind them.know, and more.and more data on third dose efficacy. Novavax has yet to be given to a single person outside of a study.

Plus were also building a Moderna facility.
Deal Addict
Jun 29, 2010
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mr_raider wrote: Whether that will materialize in a reasonable time frame is unknown.
The time frame is supposed to be for 2022, so unless you have some inside information on why this is unlikely, it should be the "materialization" date expected. Even if it gets delayed, it's still going to be made here for Canadians. Unless you have some inside information on why this will likely change.
mr_raider wrote: Canada could also purchase the doses and donate them to Coax for all we know.
Since the intention is to manufacture here for Canadians, unless you have some inside information on why this will suddenly change, it should still be the reason why they're being manufactured here, regardless if Canada donates some or not. The facility can produce 24 million doses per year.
mr_raider wrote: Plus there is also the big issue that the mRNA vaccines have way more data behind them.know, and more.and more data on third dose efficacy. Novavax has yet to be given to a single person outside of a study.

Plus were also building a Moderna facility.
The same was true for the mRNA vaccines as well at a point in time. Novavax has certain advantages compared to mRNA vaccines both in manufacturing and in storage, not to mention being accepted by anti-mRNA vaccine people. Canada doesn't want to rely on other countries for our future COVID doses, so making our own Novavax and Moderna is only sensible to not have all our eggs in one basket for future needs. There would be no reason to not proceed as planned for Novavax manufacturing, unless it somehow drastically becomes an overnight failure, when thus far it has been nothing but promising.

The point is that you basically said
we have no idea if Canada will procure any Novavax
when we really do have much more than "no idea" - we have it all planned and are set on doing so. We are already on course.
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You obviously haven't read the news about Novavax. They've had very long delays because they're struggling to produce vaccines that are sufficiently pure, and according to sources, the issues will still take very long to solve. They never made a vaccine before and it's costing them greatly.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/1 ... ign-516298

Not only that, but the third world is depending on an effective vaccine that doesn't need to be kept in a freezer and can be carried around easily, and Novavax's production issues are threatening vaccination campaigns in the poorest areas of the world.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/10/2 ... ine-517503

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