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My manager is firing me because I have been working overtime voluntarily. Am I wrong?

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  • Sep 19th, 2020 9:41 am
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 13, 2020
28 posts
17 upvotes

My manager is firing me because I have been working overtime voluntarily. Am I wrong?

I am a junior software developer who has started working for only 3 weeks.
I work 9-10 hours everyday and even in weekends if I don't have anything else to do.
I just want to spend my time more productively, and I believe there is only one way leading to success which is hard working.
However, my administrative manager is firing me because of this. When I pushed my code and built in offwork time, she could see that, and she is unhappy about that.
I asked her what negative impact I would put on the company by working overtime voluntarily, she didn't provide any persuasive reasons except my own health and balance between work and life, which are my own business.
I told her the only possible one I could think of was I working overtime making my cowokers look bad, but the fact is no one else really realized I have been working more than 8 hours per day.

Could someone tell if I am wrong?
If there are employees in your companies working overtime voluntarily, will they be fired or under big pressure as well?

To be honest, the way I see it is that, my administrative manager is a control freak. The whole is not about working overtime, it is about I am not obeying her. That is all.

Thanks!
Last edited by OIygey on Sep 9th, 2020 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
94 replies
Deal Addict
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Mar 7, 2007
4803 posts
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IF YOU ARE IN ONTARIO...
The Employment Standards Act, 2000 (ESA) does not require an employer to give an employee a reason why his or her employment is being terminated. There are, however, some situations where an employer cannot terminate an employee’s employment even if the employer is prepared to give proper written notice or termination pay. For example, an employer cannot end someone’s employment, or penalize them in any other way, if any part of the reason for the termination of employment is based on the employee asking questions about the ESA or exercising a right under the ESA, such as refusing to work in excess of the daily or weekly hours of work maximums, or taking a leave of absence specified in the ESA. Please see the chapter on reprisals.
... the employer must provide the employee with either written notice of termination, termination pay or a combination (as long as the notice and the number of weeks of termination pay together equal the length of notice the employee is entitled to receive).
https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-gu ... tion%20pay.


Bottom line: Either your manager seems to be the biggest idiot ever, or there is another reason to fire you, which she is not ready to discuss. Either way, it is a losing battle for you (to keep this job).
Deal Addict
Jan 1, 2017
1495 posts
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Did she tell you explicitly that’s the reason you are being fired or you are assuming this is the reason?
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Jun 11, 2001
9429 posts
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You are still in probation period so they can make up anything to remove you... doesn't matter the reason. No point on fighting it... just move on and look for another job.
...zzz...zzz...zzz...

www.heatware.com
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 13, 2020
28 posts
17 upvotes
ProductGuy wrote: Did she tell you explicitly that’s the reason you are being fired or you are assuming this is the reason?
This is the only conflict between her and me. She influenced my mentor and technology manager, letting them talk to me and imply me to apologize to her otherwise I will be removed.
Jr. Member
Apr 25, 2020
197 posts
61 upvotes
I don't see a big reason for your to get fired. But different people have different perspectives. Maybe you just don't fit their organization. Move on and find a better job. You'll find your best job at the right time :)
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 9, 2007
14197 posts
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Think of the Childre…
Under probation, not much you can do. Time to look for a better company that'll treat you right.

WOULD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Sr. Member
User avatar
Jun 6, 2013
583 posts
712 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Are you charging that overtime work or are you doing it for free?
Deal Fanatic
Feb 4, 2010
5182 posts
4140 upvotes
OIygey wrote: I am a junior software developer who has started working for only 3 weeks.
To be honest, the way I see it is that, my administrative manager is a control freak. The whole is not about working overtime, it is about I am not obeying her. That is all.

Thanks!
OIygey wrote: This is the only conflict between her and me. She influenced my mentor and technology manager, letting them talk to me and imply me to apologize to her otherwise I will be removed.
I highly doubt you're getting fired for working for free - I think you have just assumed this. You've just admitted that you have not "obeyed" her and you have not apologized - that's a perfectly good reason to fire you. TBH your attitude indicates that you would be a challenging personal to deal with (you come across as a argumentative cocky know-it-all young kid who knows better than everyone else).
Last edited by hierophant on Sep 9th, 2020 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 20, 2018
5588 posts
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OIygey wrote: I am a junior software developer who has started working for only 3 weeks.
I work 9-10 hours everyday and even in weekends if I don't have anything else to do.
I just want to spend my time more productively, and I believe there is only one way leading to success which is hard working.
However, my administrative manager is firing me because of this. When I pushed my code and built in offwork time, she could see that, and she is unhappy about that.
I asked her what negative impact I would put on the company by working overtime voluntarily, she didn't provide any persuasive reasons except my own health and balance between work and life, which are my own business.
I told her the only possible one I could think of was I working overtime making my cowokers look bad, but the fact is no one else really realized I have been working more than 8 hours per day.

Could someone tell if I am wrong?
If there are employees in your companies working overtime voluntarily, will they be fired or under big pressure as well?

To be honest, the way I see it is that, my administrative manager is a control freak. The whole is not about working overtime, it is about I am not obeying her. That is all.

Thanks!
your responses to her question (valid/justified or not) is enough for me to fire you especially as you're on probation
Last edited by StatsGuy on Sep 10th, 2020 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 20, 2018
5588 posts
4653 upvotes
Cheapo-Findo wrote: Under probation, not much you can do. Time to look for a better company that'll treat you right.
what company will treat a staff "right" who just came onboard but is insubordinate ?
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 13, 2020
28 posts
17 upvotes
JuniorMint wrote: Are you charging that overtime work or are you doing it for free?
Of course for free. Like I said in the post, I am working overtime voluntarily.
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 13, 2020
28 posts
17 upvotes
hierophant wrote: I highly doubt you're getting fired for working for free - I think you have just assumed this. You've just admitted that you have not "obeyed" her and you have not apologized - that's a perfectly good reason to fire you. TBH your attitude indicates that you would be a challenging personal to deal with (you come across as a argumentative cocky know-it-all young kid who knows better than everyone else).
It is true. I don't give in when I think I am right. And that is what my manager wants to achieve: please me if you want to keep the job~
But I would rather lose it instead of letting her.
Sr. Member
Feb 19, 2009
586 posts
77 upvotes
USA
OIygey wrote: It is true. I don't give in when I think I am right. And that is what my manager wants to achieve: please me if you want to keep the job~
But I would rather lose it instead of letting her.
Honestly that's why you're in trouble here. I agree with hierophant. It's your attitude. The simple fact about how businesses are run is that your opinion, while valid, does not matter. You can vocalize what you think is right, but at the end of the day you are expected to do what you're told. This is how any business is run - imagine a 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 employee company where every employee wanted to insert their own opinion on any business decision - this is how things fall apart. The sooner you understand that you are being paid based on your ability and not on your opinion, the sooner you will have better career success.

This in itself is a valuable lesson and it's good to learn this early on in your career.
Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
12726 posts
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Edmonton
OIygey wrote: I am a junior software developer who has started working for only 3 weeks.
I work 9-10 hours everyday and even in weekends if I don't have anything else to do.
I just want to spend my time more productively, and I believe there is only one way leading to success which is hard working.
However, my administrative manager is firing me because of this. When I pushed my code and built in offwork time, she could see that, and she is unhappy about that.
I asked her what negative impact I would put on the company by working overtime voluntarily, she didn't provide any persuasive reasons except my own health and balance between work and life, which are my own business.
I told her the only possible one I could think of was I working overtime making my cowokers look bad, but the fact is no one else really realized I have been working more than 8 hours per day.

Could someone tell if I am wrong?
If there are employees in your companies working overtime voluntarily, will they be fired or under big pressure as well?

To be honest, the way I see it is that, my administrative manager is a control freak. The whole is not about working overtime, it is about I am not obeying her. That is all.

Thanks!
Here's a hint for you, from someone who's been working in the IT field for longer than you've been alive...

Your boss is, as far as work stuff is concerned, your boss. They get to tell you what to do, and how it's supposed to be done. If you don't like that, figure out a way to become your own boss.

As far as your particular situation goes, people working overtime can be a problem in a number of ways. First, it makes it difficult/impossible to keep track of how accurately a project was scoped/estimated or how long it actually took. The company thinks a project took 1000 man hours, then finds out later it was actually 1300 man hours, as an example.

Second, it can be a liability to a company to have people working unpaid overtime. Especially now that your supervisor knows you're doing it. The risk is that if you leave, you can request/demand getting paid out for your overtime work:
https://blog.firstreference.com/beyond- ... ime-rules/

Now multiply those two things by the number of people on your team/department.

Here's my final suggestion. Find a passion for you. If it's in the software field, find a project that makes you want to work on it on your own. You might want to explore a different area (mobile development or AI for example), you might have a hobby that you could build an application to meet a need, whatever. Things like this can lead to developing new interests and skills, or even to a new career path or becoming your own boss with a brand new company/product.

Good luck.

C
Deal Addict
Jan 12, 2017
1404 posts
712 upvotes
You do realize that the company is responsible for giving workers direction and staff are expected to comply right?

There are government imposed limits on hours employees are allowed to work that could be a consideration for them.
So long as it isn't a health and safety or ethical item, which this isn't, ignoring employer direction is insubordination and even beyond a probationary period, is a valid reason for termination.
OIygey wrote: I am a junior software developer who has started working for only 3 weeks.
I work 9-10 hours everyday and even in weekends if I don't have anything else to do.
I just want to spend my time more productively, and I believe there is only one way leading to success which is hard working.
However, my administrative manager is firing me because of this. When I pushed my code and built in offwork time, she could see that, and she is unhappy about that.
I asked her what negative impact I would put on the company by working overtime voluntarily, she didn't provide any persuasive reasons except my own health and balance between work and life, which are my own business.
I told her the only possible one I could think of was I working overtime making my cowokers look bad, but the fact is no one else really realized I have been working more than 8 hours per day.

Could someone tell if I am wrong?
If there are employees in your companies working overtime voluntarily, will they be fired or under big pressure as well?

To be honest, the way I see it is that, my administrative manager is a control freak. The whole is not about working overtime, it is about I am not obeying her. That is all.

Thanks!
Deal Addict
Jan 1, 2013
1850 posts
1063 upvotes
Durham
CNeufeld wrote: As far as your particular situation goes, people working overtime can be a problem in a number of ways. First, it makes it difficult/impossible to keep track of how accurately a project was scoped/estimated or how long it actually took. The company thinks a project took 1000 man hours, then finds out later it was actually 1300 man hours, as an example.

Second, it can be a liability to a company to have people working unpaid overtime. Especially now that your supervisor knows you're doing it. The risk is that if you leave, you can request/demand getting paid out for your overtime work:
https://blog.firstreference.com/beyond- ... ime-rules/
This and the fact if your health deteriorates due to working these hours, it will also cost the company much more in terms of benefit claims that you make.

In this market, apologize and work with in the required hours as requested. Look for something else in the mean time if you are not happy.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 21, 2011
9813 posts
2249 upvotes
Edmonton
Sounds like a bad screening process for hiring workers to start
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 13, 2020
28 posts
17 upvotes
CNeufeld wrote: Here's a hint for you, from someone who's been working in the IT field for longer than you've been alive...

Your boss is, as far as work stuff is concerned, your boss. They get to tell you what to do, and how it's supposed to be done. If you don't like that, figure out a way to become your own boss.

As far as your particular situation goes, people working overtime can be a problem in a number of ways. First, it makes it difficult/impossible to keep track of how accurately a project was scoped/estimated or how long it actually took. The company thinks a project took 1000 man hours, then finds out later it was actually 1300 man hours, as an example.

Second, it can be a liability to a company to have people working unpaid overtime. Especially now that your supervisor knows you're doing it. The risk is that if you leave, you can request/demand getting paid out for your overtime work:
https://blog.firstreference.com/beyond- ... ime-rules/

Now multiply those two things by the number of people on your team/department.

Here's my final suggestion. Find a passion for you. If it's in the software field, find a project that makes you want to work on it on your own. You might want to explore a different area (mobile development or AI for example), you might have a hobby that you could build an application to meet a need, whatever. Things like this can lead to developing new interests and skills, or even to a new career path or becoming your own boss with a brand new company/product.

Good luck.

C
I didn't think of the 2 points you mentioned.
You are right. Thanks for you advice!
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 23, 2008
12726 posts
9373 upvotes
Edmonton
OIygey wrote: I didn't think of the 2 points you mentioned.
You are right. Thanks for you advice!
No problem, and good luck!

C

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