Automotive

Need advice regarding EV car lease and rebate issue with dealership

  • Last Updated:
  • Apr 9th, 2018 6:24 pm
[OP]
Newbie
User avatar
Jun 13, 2009
65 posts
75 upvotes
Ottawa

Need advice regarding EV car lease and rebate issue with dealership

I could have come up with a better subject title but that kind of language is frowned upon here. I'm not even sure how to start but here goes..... I had given it plenty of thought and last week I decided I was going to trade in the car to buy an EV. Specifically the KIA Soul EV. I had been looking at the numbers for a while and made it financial sense. We came an arrangement last week and the numbers were acceptable. The car was going to be leased for 4 years. the payments were calculated with the rebate in mind as the leasing company gets the rebate in the case with the lease. Most dealers that I know of are doing this on their customers behalf and the few people I know who have gone this route have not had any issues whatsoever (their payments were calculated with the rebate in mind and they drove off the lot after signing all the papers)

So I get a call the car is ready today and they want confirmation of insurance and me to come in to sign the lease papers. The insurance company called me as they had an issue as they couldn't give the pickup date. I go to the dealership to sign the lease papers inquire what issue was for the pickup date and their answer was they wont release the car to me until they get the government EV rebate first. So they expected me to pay for and insure a car while it sits on their lot that I will not be able to drive for what could easily be 6-8 weeks (that's what the average turn around time for these rebates are apparently)

To complicate matters further the bill of sale was signed last week as well as the transfer of ownership of the car that will be traded. So I'm really not sure what my recourse is or if its as simple as just telling them where to go and going elsewhere at this point. I was so LIVID I had to leave. (nothing was signed today either) any sage advice would be appreciated.
7 replies
Deal Addict
Jan 8, 2009
4822 posts
3204 upvotes
Ontario
They are worried about getting the rebate and also keeping it.

If the rebate is cancelled and they have leased a car to you for a lower amount they will be out of pocket.

If you lease a vehicle and do not keep the car for the full length of the lease the rebate has to be payed back. So If you default on your lease and they have accounted for them getting and keeping the rebate they might have to pay it back. This is why many dealers have been unwilling to take the rebate into the lease payments.

The best thing to do imo is to agree to a full lease payment excluding the rebate and apply for the rebate yourself IF you can get the car NOW. The rebates are only taking a month to process and nobody thinks it will be withdrawn before June.

Also make sure that you can pay the $14k off your lease without penalty if that is what you want to do. When Ford was doing interest free leasing people were effectively taking rebates as interest free loans.
[OP]
Newbie
User avatar
Jun 13, 2009
65 posts
75 upvotes
Ottawa
I get they are worried about getting the rebate, but what I don't get is they didn't have the decency to warn me of this before hand? Instead they make it sound like no problem we'll apply for the credit on your behalf so the payments would reflect the rebate. I feel I had the right to know before I signed the bill of sale and and ownership of the trade in over that was their intention. Thats why I'm pissed.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jul 5, 2011
2072 posts
2207 upvotes
Toronto
Hi,

To clarify some information here for you:

1. Dealers are not held responsible for “claw back” of the rebate. If for whatever reason the rebate needs to be clawed back by the Ontario Government, they will pursue the purchaser directly.

2. Each dealer handles the rebates differently - just go to another Kia store if you don’t like how this store does it. Most will be providing the rebate up front and claiming on behalf of the guest.

3. Once the forms are signed and submitted, it would not be possible for the rebate to be forfeit / removed. In the case of the other thread, where there was a 6 month - 1 year waiting period, I can definitely see the concern on behalf of the dealer. In your case, there is no risk - this dealer just has taken the stance that they do not want to front you the money. Either that, or they could just be too lazy to have signed up for the Dealer EVIP claiming program ( it is fairly involved ).

One last thing - the claiming period is typically 4-6 weeks, but last time I called the Ministry of Finance, they claimed that due to the massive number of applications, they are very far behind.
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Deal Addict
Jan 8, 2009
4822 posts
3204 upvotes
Ontario
xjesterxx wrote: Hi,

To clarify some information here for you:

1. Dealers are not held responsible for “claw back” of the rebate. If for whatever reason the rebate needs to be clawed back by the Ontario Government, they will pursue the purchaser directly.

2. Each dealer handles the rebates differently - just go to another Kia store if you don’t like how this store does it. Most will be providing the rebate up front and claiming on behalf of the guest.

3. Once the forms are signed and submitted, it would not be possible for the rebate to be forfeit / removed. In the case of the other thread, where there was a 6 month - 1 year waiting period, I can definitely see the concern on behalf of the dealer. In your case, there is no risk - this dealer just has taken the stance that they do not want to front you the money. Either that, or they could just be too lazy to have signed up for the Dealer EVIP claiming program ( it is fairly involved ).

One last thing - the claiming period is typically 4-6 weeks, but last time I called the Ministry of Finance, they claimed that due to the massive number of applications, they are very far behind.
Sounds like there has been another spring surge. Last year it was due to the introduction of the up to $14k rebate and this year it is caused by the spectre of withdrawal or reduction of the rebates.
Deal Addict
Jan 8, 2009
4822 posts
3204 upvotes
Ontario
AlphaCanus wrote: I get they are worried about getting the rebate, but what I don't get is they didn't have the decency to warn me of this before hand? Instead they make it sound like no problem we'll apply for the credit on your behalf so the payments would reflect the rebate. I feel I had the right to know before I signed the bill of sale and and ownership of the trade in over that was their intention. Thats why I'm pissed.
I can understand completely and it looks like you made the same incorrect assumption that I have made many times - that most car salespeople are true professionals and treat people accordingly. In my experience such expectations are usually met with disappointment.
Deal Addict
Jan 8, 2009
4822 posts
3204 upvotes
Ontario
Hutchinr wrote: This is from the MTO directly on the EV rebate application package. IF the dealer chooses to apply for the rebate, you need to sign over the rebate to the dealer.

If the dealer gave you point of sale discount, the dealer applies on your behalf after you assign the incentive
to the dealer and you complete the form with the dealer

Section D – Authorizing Payment of Your Incentive to the Dealer/Leasing Company
• You can either:
• Pay the full price of your vehicle and then apply directly to the Ministry of Finance for the incentive; or,
• If you received a point of sale discount, you must assign the incentive to the dealer and the dealer must
apply on your behalf using the dealer application form. You must complete the application form with him.
• You, as the applicant, must keep your car for 12 months (365 days) and continue to meet all the other
EHVIP requirements.
• The dealership/leasing company provides the required information.
"dealer applies on your behalf" - its still down to you to qualify for the rebate
Jr. Member
Aug 8, 2007
184 posts
67 upvotes
Toronto
I had a similar situation with an Audi dealer. I was looking at leasing the A3 e-tron, and they were quoting me a monthly lease cost assuming the dealer would be assigned the rebate and it was being applied to the purchase price of the car. Then when I went in to finalise the deal, they told me they are no longer accepting assignment of rebates, and I would be responsible to claim it directly from the government. I walked out after the salesman tried to convince me that I should pay an additional $7K toward the down payment and that it would "only take 1 week to get the rebate".

Maybe with the election coming up, dealers are concerned that rebates won't be issued if the PCs win a majority?

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