Negotiate severance in job offer

CNeufeld wrote: ↑ https://mcmackinlaw.ca/inducement-the-h ... employees/

There’s a number of links that turn up when you search “Ontario poached employee severance”, but this one has the legal cases cited.

C

Yes an “inducement” seems like a grey area. I’ve been told by HR experts that when a recruiter lures a candidate away from employment, and the candidate is terminated without cause by their new employer the tenure carries over and must be considered in calculating severance. But I also have read contradicting info from some lawyers.

Abacus1010 wrote: ↑ Yes an “inducement” seems like a grey area. I’ve been told by HR experts that when a recruiter lures a candidate away from employment, and the candidate is terminated without cause by their new employer the tenure carries over and must be considered in calculating severance. But I also have read contradicting info from some lawyers.

if there is an express termination clause, as long as properly drafted and enforceable, that is not the state of the law. The clause will be enforced. If the agreement is silent, generally the notice period would be increased in this case and generally under common law, severernce is higher than ordinarily awarded. Not rule of thumb but 6 months with only 2 years of service is not out of the realm.

Abacus1010 wrote: ↑ Yes an “inducement” seems like a grey area. I’ve been told by HR experts that when a recruiter lures a candidate away from employment, and the candidate is terminated without cause by their new employer the tenure carries over and must be considered in calculating severance. But I also have read contradicting info from some lawyers.

Well, if you read the link posted, they actually give a number of ways that an employer can protect themselves from being on the hook for extended severance. One of the ways is exactly what they're doing to you; putting in a clause that limits your severance. From YOUR perspective, you'd be better off with NO clause, and roll the dice. Failing that, get something in there that you're comfortable with. But if you agree to their clause, then you can expect that's all you'll get.

There was a number of other ways they suggest an organization can protect themselves. You might want to brush up on those, so you can see if they're trying to agree on one front, only to sneak in something else.

C

Don't negotiate it, just get the clause removed.

I think being a director / senior position, I think you should seek proper legal advice. I think several hundreds to a k+ would be money well spent. Best of luck.

I speak from personal experience. Also got recruited into a director level position.

TALK TO A LAWYER. NOW.

No Frills wrote: ↑ Don't negotiate it, just get the clause removed.

Yup. Said upthread. Let common law apply. Anything else and that clause is giving you the shaft even before you start. HR people have crap for brains. I'm amazed at how employees first taste of an organization is when they are being screwed in their employment offer. Just dirty IMO. And if you new boss says they dont have authority to change, they lie. Good to move on since they are wimps to HR. On the other hand, if removed, you will be well off with a boss that cam stomp on HR.

Abacus1010 wrote: ↑ I’d be leaving on my own.

No severance pay.

teoconca wrote: ↑ No severance pay.

OP knows that. He's talking about a clause in his employment offer from the new firm.

If they won’t budge, would they add a signing bonus to make up for the 10 years of tenure you have with current role? I imagine it would quite a signing bonus but you never know, they might also put a clause in where you get the sign up bonus in phases with adjusted severance options…it complicates things but a good HR comp/ben lead could do that…

Sometimes it’s also a G&A issue with the full comp package with all the values they add in there and maybe a one time bonus would be better than carrying the severance option on your contract throughout your employment with them

Btw your OP was fine, just not a lot of people go through offers with those clauses so some are confusing the severance clause you are speaking about

Good luck!

BoredAtWork wrote: ↑ If they won’t budge, would they add a signing bonus to make up for the 10 years of tenure you have with current role? I imagine it would quite a signing bonus but you never know, they might also put a clause in where you get the sign up bonus in phases with adjusted severance options…it complicates things but a good HR comp/ben lead could do that…

Sometimes it’s also a G&A issue with the full comp package with all the values they add in there and maybe a one time bonus would be better than carrying the severance option on your contract throughout your employment with them

Btw your OP was fine, just not a lot of people go through offers with those clauses so some are confusing the severance clause you are speaking about

Good luck!

Thank you. As an update, I rejected their offer. The next day they called to find out what my “number” was. I also asked for starting severance of 4 months. I don’t think I’ll hear back but I also felt with my current situation I could be more aggressive.

I simply wanted to know if “severance” is something that could be negotiated. The amount I’d say is specific to your situation. Just know, the recruiter told me it was a common ask by longer tenured candidates.

Hi op, i know i'm late tot he game but a couple of key things (always seek professional advice over anything on RFD, facebook, reddit etc)
-if you were not looking for a new job but were recruited away and things don't work out, check out inducement in the labour law field in Ontario. There are cases where employees were terminated even after a couple years who received severance based on their prior work (for you it would count the 10 years)
-At your level of director, even if there was a termination clause it would be applicable under the ESA minimum amounts. Common law practices would still count and very favourable to the employee.

I had direct experience with this in 2020 with a signed offer using explicit termination of ESA but i was still given common law 3-4 weeks per year of service including previous employer. Especially at your level of director the compensation on termination will be significant because of your role, years experience, and salary level. I wouldn't worry too much about the clause because it doesnt carry too much weight.