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New Furnace/AC Time??

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  • Aug 4th, 2021 9:18 am
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[OP]
Deal Guru
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Mar 13, 2004
11666 posts
3352 upvotes
Ontario
Wow sounds like a lot of issues unfortunately came up but were resolved properly. I also feel for your parents as we also had a bad experience with a past HVAC contractor and after dealing with Ash and having such a positive experience I recommend him to everybody.

if you can post some photos of the final install I would be interested to see what they had to change up.
blapt5 wrote: I have to contribute another extremely positive experience with Ash and his company Fair Deal Heating and Air Conditioning. I am writing this review of my own volition since my parents were so pleased with the work done. Feel free to contact me if you want a more detailed opinion or overview – I’d stump for this company any day.

TL;DR version: Single best experience with a contractor my family has ever had. Detailed, frequent and clear communication (by text, phone and email), excellent prices, and his employees displayed a work ethic and professionalism I’ve never seen before. I have zero reservations about recommending Ash and his company for any HVAC work. We definitely didn’t have a normal or easy install – several issues arose (very old house), but all were handled very well at the best prices.


I acted as the go-between for my parents, as they were pretty angry after getting jerked around by another (supposedly reputable!) HVAC contractor in Toronto who were giving us a hilarious run around on warranty coverage after they already botched an initial visit (how do you not detect a serious leak and just fill up with refrigerant instead?).
Sent Ash (@newlyborn) a message directly on RFD forum on June 20 based on others reports and my own research. He got back to me a day later, and we had a very good informative phone call. I outlined the situation, and he gave me an explanation of what work was being proposed by the other company, and the “big picture” about what we might be facing for our specific situation. At no point did it feel like a sales pitch – this initial call really was just “I’m an HVAC expert giving free advice – do with it what you will”.

After discussing it with my family, we decided to go with an all new A/C unit from Ash. The time frame and price that Ash quoted (on a subsequent call) for a very good Lennox unit was by far the best that we got – I called around for various quotes from other well reviewed and reputable contractors, and he was significantly cheaper for a very good brand. Further, given the conversation we had on the phone, I felt more confident about the process and how the situation was being handled. Installation booked for June 26 afternoon and June 27 morning (if needed).

They had an opening in their schedule and were able to come on June 25 afternoon instead! Great. Unfortunately, when his crew arrived, it turned out that new A/C units have a significantly larger evaporator coil than what we had before, and wasn’t going to fit with the current furnace and ductwork setup (height issues). Ash immediately called me, sent me pictures and explained the situation. Nasty surprise, but… these things happen. The furnace was literally 30 years old, so a new one was likely coming up anyway. I did further research to confirm this was accurate information, and was able to see the size difference during the installation. When they took the old units out, Ash was able to educate us about the old furnace, new evaporator coil size (definitely would not have fit), and even pointed out where we could have done more maintenance on the AC unit.

From there, there were several other wrenches that we threw at Ash and his guys:
- We told them that “we don’t want to use the old floor drain anymore since we had issues and it just goes to the weeping system which is uncertain” – Ash had an appropriate condensate pump in his truck, which was added on for a good price – now draining to our basement sink
- Ash discovered that our old furnace and water heater had been venting directly into our chimney with no liner. While that may have been basically okay before (still not TSSA approved…) when the very old furnace could heat the chimney enough, there’s no way that would still be safe with just the water heater. We were quite resistant at first, but Ash explained it very clearly that this was going to be a safety issue in the winter. We initially said no since this was turning into a big enough project, but I confirmed with my own research again, and I’m very glad that he pushed a bit on it and we got a new liner (again – excellent price). I’m glad the water heater will have its own liner, and would have had put it in afterwards anyway based on my own understanding now anyway. A water heater will definitely not create enough of its own draft from the basement to a tall second-floor chimney to vent correctly.
- Then they realized that our ideal spot for furnace venting was…. not feasible, and they ended up having to run the furnace venting to the furthest possible (and most inconvenient) wall because of the unique restrictions with our house and setup. Again, this was unexpected, extra work, and the most difficult way to do it, but they handled it with aplomb. They were able to run the venting pipes cleanly between my basement joists, and did a great job with the holes they had to drill through the wall. Well foamed and caulked, with screens on the vents outside.

The crew (I wish I could remember their names – they were both extremely nice guys!) didn’t leave until 10pm. That makes my brain hurt to consider – they were there working continuously from 2:30pm until 10pm – and this wasn’t an emergency call or anything! Incredible work ethic, and all we could do was offer them lots of drinking water and try to stay out of the way (they even tolerated us asking lots of questions very well - and no contractor actually likes being bugged while they're working!). They had to come back the next day (arrived to the minute when they said they would) for some final touch up work and the liner installation. They also had thick blankets down over our floors and carpets, and cleaned everything up very well before they left.

Ash came by for a final visit to install the humidifier on the furnace and give my parents a tour of the system. Only then was payment asked for, and he showed us the warranty and registration for all of the work done (directly with Lennox under our name and contact info). My family is thrilled with the work done, and are much more comfortable than before (that will happen when going from single stage to a variable speed, but that won’t matter if the installation is garbage; this installation could not have been done better).

Ash and his crew definitely helped us make the best of a bad situation (AC breaking down in a heatwave is miserable), and we're very happy with how everything went.
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
2891 posts
1260 upvotes
Woodbridge
Imagehttps://imgur.com/dGv9kdy
sickcars wrote: Wow sounds like a lot of issues unfortunately came up but were resolved properly. I also feel for your parents as we also had a bad experience with a past HVAC contractor and after dealing with Ash and having such a positive experience I recommend him to everybody.

if you can post some photos of the final install I would be interested to see what they had to change up.
Last edited by newlyborn on Aug 10th, 2020 12:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
Newbie
Jun 25, 2020
1 posts
4 upvotes
My hot water tank(HWT) burst (installed in 2011 ) causing my basement to get inundated on night of Jun 12th. There was damage to drywalls, carpet and my furnace also had 4 inches of water. I managed to drain out the water myself but 40% of my basement was wet. I called Reliance home comfort my hot water rental company, and they said well we can take a look but for damages I had to go through my home insurance. Reliance’s HWT technician came but he was more interested in selling me a furnace as he saw I had old black pipes in and out of my furnace (old code plumbing pipe). He refused to remove my broken tank until I get a new replacement one from them. I was very disappointed with them since I had been paying rent which has by now jumped to $31 incl HST every month for last 9 years and these guys won’t even remove the old one without charging $300( I was given to the option to drop it off myself for no cost)

I had by then already decided to get my own HWT as you could technically pay off the cost of the HWT in 55 months ($1700 divided by 55 comes to
$31 rental per month).


Apart from calling the insurance and starting the proceeding with emergency repairs to my basement We started researching for HWT options as it was first priority to get hot water. We came across Ash @newlyborn on homestars and contacted him. Ash was very helpful and said that they don’t sell HWT but the best bet is to go for a GWS or a Rheem at a big box home improvement store. After couple visits to Home depot and we eventually decided to go for a AO Smith (preciously GWS) 50gal natural gas fired HWT with power vent(standard in Canada) for $945 (Total cost $1700 incl taxes, install and $120 emergency fee from Lowe’s) .

Lowe’s contractor installed the tank on June 17th to my satisfaction under emergency service ( regular wait time would have been 2 weeks). We had hot water thankfully after 5 days.


During emergency repair (drying of drywalls, cutting of wet portions of wall,carpet etc) was done by a company called Winmar who were my home insurer’s contractor. This all happened in the week following my HWT burst and there was a severe heat wave also the same week). Upon inspection by Winmar’s, it was determined to have my furnace checked as it had been wet. Winmar sent another of its sub contractor on Jun17th, a furnace company which declared water damage and red tagged my 24 year old Lennox single stage furnace which has been working well until the water damage and I was assured that it will be covered under insurance claim but I have to wait for an estimate . It was all good so far except my AC won’t work now in the heat wave since my furnace was disconnected now and red tagged.

This is what prompted me to call Ash again this time to enquire about furnace options as it was clear at this point that I have to get my furnace replaced in order for my AC to work which under normal circumstances would have done it in September or October before the “light up” season.


I found Ash to be very experienced (15 years in the business), well informed and gave great advice ( he had already suggested GWS HWT which I got from Lowes ) . He made his best effort to answer all my questions to my satisfaction and suggested a Lennox 2 stage variable motor furnace (Merritt series ) and he said this is the one he recommends to all clients but he never pushed me and left decision on me . Also I had to wait for insurance go ahead so I got a verbal quote at that point . I got 2 other furnace companies which quoted me various prices for Goodman, Lennox, Amana for various prices (some of them cheaper- under $3000 depending on singe or double stage and brand name). However one of them suggested to get a 80000 BTU/hr furnace for my 1800 sq ft semi detached home and the other one quoted for 70000 BTU/hr . My current furnace was a 50000 BTU/hr Lennox with less efficiency so it made no sense to me why they were over sizing it. ( I have basic technical knowledge about HVAC and engineering background)

Personally I was leaning towards Lennox 2 stage which none of the other two were offering although they were cheaper but they didn’t instill
the trust in me and they couldn’t answer all my questions to my satisfaction. So I went back to Ash and he explained everything in detail over the phone . He said he could could get any furnace even Carrier but Lennox 2 stage was very good brand and it has worked well with his clients . He said he price may seem a bit higher but he guaranteed excellent installation, efficient service and quick response time. Also he said that a furnace with an output of 45000 BTU/hr would be enough for my house size otherwise it will result in short heating cycles and eventually could lead to motor breakdown and wastage of fuel and electricity which defeats the whole purpose of a 96% efficient furnace. It all made sense to me and finally I decided to go with Ash (Fair deal ) for my Lennox 2 stage furnace wth variable motor .

Installation
—————-
I was very impressed with Raj and his assistant who took their time (4 hours) to install the new furnace and the associated piping and ductwork to my Satisfaction. They did a clean job and were very respectful and courteous to us . We both were working that day being a Friday morning. They cleaned up afterwards as well. Raj also helped me carry my old hot water tank to the front of my garage as I didn’t have a dolly and he did . (This is my job and he has nothing to do with him btw)

Additional install- Humidifier
—————————————
I also got a Bypass humidifier (AprilAir 500) installed from Ash as we have allergies and dryness In winter season . Again Ash answered all questions and did a perfect and beat installation . He never tried to up sell without a reason and offered a great price since I got the furnace installed through him.

I am very satisfied with the customer service, technical advise, expertise and neat and efficient installation Services provided by Ash , Raj and his crew @fairdeal and would rate them 10/10 and a 5-star rating and highly recommend his company for someone who is looking to get their HVAC needs fulfilled Or even get basic advice . The best thing that differentiates him from others is his willingness to answer any questions and clear any doubts in the minds of the customer, his honesty, and the fact that he works hard to instill trust in customer and it shows in his work .

I would go to Ash for any of my future HVAC needs
and would highly and readily recommend him to people, my friends and relatives !
Jr. Member
Apr 3, 2004
183 posts
29 upvotes
Toronto
Hi guys,

Just had an outstanding experience with Ash and crew from Fair Deal Heating and Air Conditioning. Just replaced my AC unit In this sweltering heat. The crew were friendly and approachable and answered all our questions without hesitation. Ash over all other contractors i contacted took the time to explain all the options, what the best solutions would be and what is best for my situation. Also stressed the quality of the install is extremely important.

I will definitely come back to Ash at Fair deal heating and air conditioning for my furnace needs in the future, and definitely suggest him for any of you guys here requiring an upgrade or replacement.

Edit 1: I have to mention Ash and team were the only ones to even suggest a preinspection and they worked on our schedule. Other contractors gave me a quote and an install date and time. Nothing else.
Member
Mar 9, 2006
308 posts
22 upvotes
Wanted to re-iterate the positive feedback and experience with Ash @newlyborn from Fair Deal Heating and Air Conditioning

I had an issue with my AC unit where the fan on the condenser motor stopped working. After changing the capacitors myself and concluded that the motor itself had seized - I decided to have Ash come over to replace the fan motor all together. The task went smoothly and Ash was very professional throughout the whole process.

He has been a long time trusted advisor on RFD. After seeing him in person - I would definitely recommend him to you for any HVAC needs.
Deal Addict
Jun 16, 2009
2891 posts
1260 upvotes
Woodbridge
I sincerely appreciate all the feedback . If anyone is in need of urgent help / advise please feel free to reach out to me at 416-992-2333. I do check RFD messages often as I get chance but phone is certainly faster way to get the response.
HVAC Professional. Committed to customer, not brand.
Furnace & Central AC Group Buy 2021
Sr. Member
Oct 6, 2007
712 posts
51 upvotes
Toronto
Thank you Ash/newlyborn! (Fair Deal Heating and AirConditioning) for your prompt reply and fast service!!!, I would highly recommend him!
Sr. Member
Jun 1, 2010
743 posts
215 upvotes
marksmithy69 wrote: I had a 80,000 BTU Ameristar high efficiency furnace, 2 stage, variable-speed D.C. motor, 97% AFUE installed last year. Ameristar is made by Trane, I am very happy with it so far. Much, much quieter than the Goodman furnace that it replaced. I leave the DC motor running all the time, and you can barely hear it.
Ameristar Furnaces are made by Trane/American Standard. Ameristar is a excellent furnace and is the same as the older AUH and TUH models. We were a American Standard dealer for 12 years then moved to Trane 3 years ago. The Ameristar AC units are NOT the same as the Trane/American Standard. Although Trane/American Standard are identical Trane has a better parts distribution system and provides excellent dealer support particularly with training and technical support.
See our 2021 RFD Trane AC Group Buy
group-buy-gta-ottawa-2021-central-ac-gr ... e-2449494/
Sr. Member
Jun 1, 2010
743 posts
215 upvotes
marksmithy69 wrote: I had a 80,000 BTU Ameristar high efficiency furnace, 2 stage, variable-speed D.C. motor, 97% AFUE installed last year. Ameristar is made by Trane, I am very happy with it so far. Much, much quieter than the Goodman furnace that it replaced. I leave the DC motor running all the time, and you can barely hear it.
Ameristar Furnaces are made by Trane/American Standard. Ameristar is a excellent furnace and is the same as the older AUH and TUH models. We were a American Standard dealer for 12 years then moved to Trane 3 years ago. The Ameristar AC units are NOT the same as the Trane/American Standard. Although Trane/American Standard are identical Trane has a better parts distribution system and provides excellent dealer support particularly with training and technical support.
See our 2021 RFD Trane AC Group Buy
group-buy-gta-ottawa-2021-central-ac-gr ... e-2449494/
Deal Addict
User avatar
Oct 24, 2005
4851 posts
793 upvotes
Burlington
fourseasoncomfort wrote: Ameristar Furnaces are made by Trane/American Standard. Ameristar is a excellent furnace and is the same as the older AUH and TUH models. We were a American Standard dealer for 12 years then moved to Trane 3 years ago. The Ameristar AC units are NOT the same as the Trane/American Standard. Although Trane/American Standard are identical Trane has a better parts distribution system and provides excellent dealer support particularly with training and technical support.
Aren't the Ameristar A/C's made in China?
Banned
Feb 7, 2005
4498 posts
1183 upvotes
newlyborn wrote: I sincerely appreciate all the feedback . If anyone is in need of urgent help / advise please feel free to reach out to me at 416-992-2333. I do check RFD messages often as I get chance but phone is certainly faster way to get the response.
Do you serice south east Mississauga?
<sig removed> by moderators . Yet no moderator told me they removed or why ?
Member
Sep 23, 2010
247 posts
41 upvotes
As this community helped me out big time when I was in a jam (several times over the years), I want to make sure I can give back a little as well. I would like to share my very recent experience with an air conditioning issue and resolution. Here is both my quick, two sentence, feedback for those who just want the punchline, followed by my longer full story for those looking for more details.

In short, this is not a recommendation on which equipment to go with, as mine is too new yet to offer any real feedback, but rather on who I recommend contacting if you have an issue. I just had my AC replaced and I would highly recommend Ash from Fair Deal Heating & Air Conditioning. He's on RFD as @newlyborn

Now, here's my long story, I do hope it helps at least one other person.

Tuesday, June 30th, I came home in the early evening to find my house several degrees warmer than it should have been, despite the air conditioner being on. After investigating a little, I found the cooper line outside to the condenser covered in ice, and the same in the basement where the line came away from the coil. A little internet research told me I likely had a leak in the system and no longer had sufficient coolant, which I couldn't simply recharge given it used R-22. Long story short, time to replace the AC. But of course, it's Tuesday night before Canada Day as we are headed into at least a week long heatwave.

After a little research on RFD Wednesday morning, in addition to leaving a couple of messages for a few of the bigger companies, I decided to text @newlyborn on WhatsApp, given some strong recommendations for his company Fair Deal Heating and Air Conditioning. Despite it being 10:20am on Canada Day, Ash texted me back within 2 minutes (no exaggeration) asking if he could call me in 10 minutes. We talked for almost 30 minutes about the issue I'm having, some specifics about my home and what I'm looking for and then he answered a bunch of my questions and provided me some options and recommendations, as well as a quote on what sounded like the right system for me. Based on the positive reviews I had already read and the fact that he got back to me right away, on a holiday nonetheless, I did something I have never done before and booked the work with Ash right away without shopping around or getting competing quotes. He was able to schedule my new AC installation for Friday morning at 10am. If you don't want to read further, I'll sum up by saying I'm glad I did.

This is where it gets even better. Within 10 minutes of getting off the phone with Ash, he texted me the details, including full model number, of the AC unit we had discussed, so I could research the specifics and make sure I was comfortable with this one. Less than an hour later, he calls me back, tells me he's at his supplier and they should be able to get the unit the next day for my Friday AM install, but of course, can't be 100% sure until the equipment is in his hands. But then he also offers me the option of using a similar, but slightly more expensive unit, which they had available immediately. He also said he would honor the quoted price regardless of which unit I wanted and he sent me the details of the second unit as well. I did some quick research and selected the unit that was available right now, to essentially guarantee nothing would delay my install and because it wasn't increasing my cost. He picked up the unit for me right then. Again, this is all happening on a holiday.

Thursday morning I get a few call backs from some of those other companies I left messages for the day before and two of them agree to send someone out to look at my system and provide me with a quote later that same day. I figure, why not, peace of mind, I'll at least have 3 different quotes to compare. None of the quotes were apples to apples, but here is what they looked like.
Of the other two, Company 1 came the closest to quoting me on something similar to what I was already getting. They tried to pressure me into signing right away by offering me 'great discounts', which were still roughly $1,000 higher than what I was already booked for. In all fairness, not the exact same equipment, but similar enough that the price difference should have been very small.
Company 2 was very much interested in overselling me on all kinds of 'bells and whistles', such as air purification systems, two-stage AC units and thousand dollar thermostats. The sales person obviously was more of a 'sales person' than a 'technical person' as well, as they did not really know the equipment outside of specifically what they sold. They were also more interested in showing me texts from other happy customers than focusing on my situation. Their lower quote, with less bells and whistles, was also nearly double Fair Deal's quote (their high-end quote was almost triple). Again, not quoting on the same things, but I found it interesting how focused on up-selling they were.
One other note, both bigger companies were not shy about 'scare tactics'. Basically warning that if I go with a smaller company, the company probably won't be around in the future if I need them, or they won't respond to me quickly if I have a problem. I found it a little funny, since the "small company" I was going with already showed a level of responsiveness and customer service that exceeded my expectations and my experience with both bigger companies.
I was now even more satisfied with my choice to select Ash and Fair Deal.

Back to my experience with Fair Deal. While Company 2 was still at my house, Ash called and asked if I would be okay if his team came by in about an hour to look at my install and if simple, to do it right away. I, of course, said yes. Raj and his son got to my house around 5pm and after examining my situation, realized this install was going to be quite complicated, as they needed to run new cooper piping and I had a finished ceiling in the basement that they were not keen to damage. They took stock of everything they would need and we agreed to stick to the original install the next morning, as it was going to take a while (and I didn't love the idea of them working til midnight, although based on some other's reviews, I'm sure they would have if I was desperate). Sure enough, they arrived exactly at 10am Friday, already had everything they needed and set to work right away. They were very professional, obviously knew what they were doing and didn't mind me hanging around and asking questions (although I'm sure every professional actually hates this...they did not give me that impression once). They did a very neat and tidy job and were very good about cleaning up along the way. It took them 6 hours on Friday and I couldn't be happier with the work done! Ash followed-up with me after they left to inquire about how satisfied I was. He also followed-up with me again this morning to make sure everything was working to my expectations.

Obviously, as my new AC is less than 1 day old right now, I can't speak to the longevity of the equipment, but my intention with this review is to possibly help others find a great company to work with regardless of which equipment you are interested in. Based on my experiences alone, I would absolutely recommend Ash and Fair Deal Heating and Air Conditioning to my friends and family. Hope this helps!
Sr. Member
Jun 12, 2009
858 posts
291 upvotes
vrscdx wrote: How old/drafty is your house? Even with the furnace fan running all the time, it's just circulating the same air in the house. With the HRV you are bringing fresh air in, and removing stale air at the same time.
Newer (2007+) houses are built very tight so you need a HRV to exchange the air, but older houses won't benefit as much since they are drafty and air will naturally exchange (stack effect).

My house has a HRV installed from the builder, and there was no duct modification needed, they installed one duct to the air return, and the other duct closer to the furnace but still in the air return. If you look at this picture, mine is installed like this, however my HRV IS interlocked with the furnace, so there is no airflow "short circuit"

Image
Thanks for the image, it really helped me visualize the setup.

Q: (1) how far apart are the two pipes and (2) what is the distance between furnace (filter) and fresh air intake?
Sr. Member
Oct 6, 2007
712 posts
51 upvotes
Toronto
Contacted newlyborn to install my humidifier, very satisfied with the work. My new HVAC service to go to!
Newbie
Jul 4, 2020
4 posts
6 upvotes
Well just had Ash over from Fair Deal heating and aicon. Was considering replacing both Ac unit and furnace at same time.. Ash explained that in his experience we should just do the air conditioner unit only as our furnace was still in decent shape!

What an honest nice gentlemen to deal with.

At the drop of a hat on a Sunday evening at 930pm, he drops everything and comes over to get the quote done as to give us options on the possibility of new air conditioner models. Still waiting for the quote obviouy, but wanted to recognize the absolutely OUTSTANDING customer service skills this man has. Thank you Ash, I look forward to seeing your quote!

Have a great week everyone! If we decide to go for it, I'll update the post on here to complete the process!

Thanks again to these other RFD peeps, wouldn't have found Ash and Fair Deal HVAC without you guys!
[OP]
Deal Guru
User avatar
Mar 13, 2004
11666 posts
3352 upvotes
Ontario
Great to hear! Hope it works out and you are able to take advantage of his great customer service.
Joliballs wrote: Well just had Ash over from Fair Deal heating and aicon. Was considering replacing both Ac unit and furnace at same time.. Ash explained that in his experience we should just do the air conditioner unit only as our furnace was still in decent shape!

What an honest nice gentlemen to deal with.

At the drop of a hat on a Sunday evening at 930pm, he drops everything and comes over to get the quote done as to give us options on the possibility of new air conditioner models. Still waiting for the quote obviouy, but wanted to recognize the absolutely OUTSTANDING customer service skills this man has. Thank you Ash, I look forward to seeing your quote!

Have a great week everyone! If we decide to go for it, I'll update the post on here to complete the process!

Thanks again to these other RFD peeps, wouldn't have found Ash and Fair Deal HVAC without you guys!
Jr. Member
Feb 22, 2008
130 posts
20 upvotes
Would also recommend Ash from Fair Deal heating. He made himself available very quickly to come to the house and give me a quote on a new ac with a price better than the 3 other quotes I had. His team was able to come over the very next day on a Friday evening to install before the weekend which was amazing and a relief to the family considering the ecobee was reading 30C inside that day.

Thanks again Ash for the prompt response and service!
Deal Addict
Feb 10, 2006
2447 posts
444 upvotes
Kitchener
FastFret wrote: Thanks for the image, it really helped me visualize the setup.

Q: (1) how far apart are the two pipes and (2) what is the distance between furnace (filter) and fresh air intake?
If you are going down the path look at erv units. They are similar to hrv but offer slight difference between the two.

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