Computers & Electronics

New Ryzen build - unstable

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  • Jul 23rd, 2020 11:02 am
[OP]
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birthdaymonkey wrote: I had a 2200G and that thing was an absolute nightmare to get to work properly with DRAM. Of course it included the same weak IMC design of the 1000-series (being essentially a Ryzen 1xxx chip with integrated graphics) while the 3200G has the slightly improved IMC of the Zen+ (2000-series) design. I agree with the person who said that the thermals seem in-line with expectations for a stock cooler.

I like your idea of giving the parents the i3 8100 and taking in the 3200G system to tweak yourself. Unfortunately, despite the great strides AMD has made in recent years, Intel is still the best choice if you want something that "just works." I doubt your parents need the better integrated graphics of the 3200G. To rule out memory, try loading fail-safe defaults in the BIOS, which should run the memory at stock 2133MHz speeds; if it doesn't, see if you can reduce to 2133MHz yourself.
Yes, that was my thought initially. I was swayed by some opinions on other forums that said these Ryzens are tremendous value. I've built AMD and intel pcs over the years and my experience is what you said, the intel stuff just works.
I probably will end up swapping the AsRock AMD mobo for an ASUS PRIME H310M-E R2.0 Socket 1151 Intel H310 and a Intel Pentium Gold G5400 Coffee Lake 2-Core/4-Thread Processor LGA1151 and putting together another system with the leftover AMD stuff for myself.
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[OP]
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FrugalConsumer wrote: Are you sure it isn't the video card?

I just helped one of my friends build a 5600XT gaming rig and that card was riddled with problems. As far as I know, AMD still can't be trusted with graphics cards yet.
Video card? Do you mean onboard graphics?
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[OP]
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coilz wrote: Might as well bring your whole i3 machine so you'll have parts to swap and test. USB drive with Windows install on it... external hard drives to back up stuff... everything ! Good luck :)

Looking at the Asrock site they mentioned the AMD all in one VGA driver a few times... I assume you've looked into that too?
I have not looked into that, no. Do you have a link to what you're referring to? I'd appreciate it.
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Just for giggles I'd memtest it.
If they have a USB stick kicking around, you could walk them through making it (or remote in and do it yourself).
Then all they'd need to do is reboot with it in and tell you what they see.
thexdriver wrote:
54 - 57 C is fine ?
Under load that's downright chilly.
FrugalConsumer wrote: Are you sure it isn't the video card?
That was my thought but it's onboard.
Do you not have anything else to do rather than argue with strangers on the internet
Nope. That's why I'm on the internet arguing with strangers. If I had anything better to do I'd probably be doing it.
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birthdaymonkey wrote: I had a 2200G and that thing was an absolute nightmare to get to work properly with DRAM. Of course it included the same weak IMC design of the 1000-series (being essentially a Ryzen 1xxx chip with integrated graphics) while the 3200G has the slightly improved IMC of the Zen+ (2000-series) design. I agree with the person who said that the thermals seem in-line with expectations for a stock cooler.

I like your idea of giving the parents the i3 8100 and taking in the 3200G system to tweak yourself. Unfortunately, despite the great strides AMD has made in recent years, Intel is still the best choice if you want something that "just works." I doubt your parents need the better integrated graphics of the 3200G. To rule out memory, try loading fail-safe defaults in the BIOS, which should run the memory at stock 2133MHz speeds; if it doesn't, see if you can reduce to 2133MHz yourself.
Without getting into all the specifics... I built a Ryzen 1700 around when they were new, had so much hassle with it. Then came Ryzen 3000 series and many people said oh it's much better now, so I built a PC using that Amazon price error 3800x on an x570 board, and the thing has often been a nightmare, although at this point I think that x570 motherboard is at fault as I've read some others that have the same problems. For example, that 3800x is my current gaming PC and while you're playing games it works fine, until you power it down, then you can look forward to screwing around awhile to get it booted again, so I just try to never turn it off :). I am gonna have to RMA the motherboard.

In the same time I have built multiple Intel PCs, across a range from i7 down to Pentium, and they all work fine. I didn't have to try 5 different sets of RAM, keep updating the BIOS hoping it would get better, etc.

I know there's all kinds of arguments and we could dig down into all the details and maybe find deeper answers. But if I just go by the experiences I've had since Ryzen arrived, I am forced to agree and give Intel the "it just works" badge.
[OP]
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death_hawk wrote: Just for giggles I'd memtest it.
If they have a USB stick kicking around, you could walk them through making it (or remote in and do it yourself).
Then all they'd need to do is reboot with it in and tell you what they see.


Under load that's downright chilly.


That was my thought but it's onboard.
The memory I used was pulled from my intel i3 8100 build because I had two 8GB sticks of DDR4 2400MHz. I put a single 16GB module in the intel system as the Ryzen depends on the dual channel RAM specifically for the onboard video. The RAM was working perfectly in the other system.

The more information I find leads me to believe the ASROCK B450M HDV R4.0 is just a flaky unstable board. I don't want to saddle my elderly parents with the hassle of a problematic pc. My mother is quite proficient on a computer and uses it daily. I'm thinknig I may resort to gutting the RYZEN CPU and AsRock mobo and replacing them with the Coffe Lake Pentium Gold 5400 and ASUS intel mobo.
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[OP]
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hystavito wrote: Without getting into all the specifics... I built a Ryzen 1700 around when they were new, had so much hassle with it. Then came Ryzen 3000 series and many people said oh it's much better now, so I built a PC using that Amazon price error 3800x on an x570 board, and the thing has often been a nightmare, although at this point I think that x570 motherboard is at fault as I've read some others that have the same problems. For example, that 3800x is my current gaming PC and while you're playing games it works fine, until you power it down, then you can look forward to screwing around awhile to get it booted again, so I just try to never turn it off :). I am gonna have to RMA the motherboard.

In the same time I have built multiple Intel PCs, across a range from i7 down to Pentium, and they all work fine. I didn't have to try 5 different sets of RAM, keep updating the BIOS hoping it would get better, etc.

I know there's all kinds of arguments and we could dig down into all the details and maybe find deeper answers. But if I just go by the experiences I've had since Ryzen arrived, I am forced to agree and give Intel the "it just works" badge.
great post.
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hystavito wrote: Without getting into all the specifics... I built a Ryzen 1700 around when they were new, had so much hassle with it. Then came Ryzen 3000 series and many people said oh it's much better now, so I built a PC using that Amazon price error 3800x on an x570 board, and the thing has often been a nightmare, although at this point I think that x570 motherboard is at fault as I've read some others that have the same problems. For example, that 3800x is my current gaming PC and while you're playing games it works fine, until you power it down, then you can look forward to screwing around awhile to get it booted again, so I just try to never turn it off :). I am gonna have to RMA the motherboard.

In the same time I have built multiple Intel PCs, across a range from i7 down to Pentium, and they all work fine. I didn't have to try 5 different sets of RAM, keep updating the BIOS hoping it would get better, etc.

I know there's all kinds of arguments and we could dig down into all the details and maybe find deeper answers. But if I just go by the experiences I've had since Ryzen arrived, I am forced to agree and give Intel the "it just works" badge.
Everybody has their horror stories about particular hardware setups. It's pointless to give them any weight. You can usually find just as many people who have the opposite experience.

My Ryzen setup worked fine out of the box. My last 3 Intel-based systems have issues.

Doesn't mean anything.
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hystavito wrote: Without getting into all the specifics... I built a Ryzen 1700 around when they were new, had so much hassle with it. Then came Ryzen 3000 series and many people said oh it's much better now, so I built a PC using that Amazon price error 3800x on an x570 board, and the thing has often been a nightmare, although at this point I think that x570 motherboard is at fault as I've read some others that have the same problems. For example, that 3800x is my current gaming PC and while you're playing games it works fine, until you power it down, then you can look forward to screwing around awhile to get it booted again, so I just try to never turn it off :). I am gonna have to RMA the motherboard.

In the same time I have built multiple Intel PCs, across a range from i7 down to Pentium, and they all work fine. I didn't have to try 5 different sets of RAM, keep updating the BIOS hoping it would get better, etc.

I know there's all kinds of arguments and we could dig down into all the details and maybe find deeper answers. But if I just go by the experiences I've had since Ryzen arrived, I am forced to agree and give Intel the "it just works" badge.
I get your frustration... And probably it would be too late for you to do a return at this point. I was stuck with my Ryzen 2200G system... eventually I ended up buying expensive Samsung B-die 3200MHz CL14 memory (at around 2.5X the cost of normal RAM at the time... now it's more like 1.75-2X the cost), and even then the system was only stable at 2933MHz CL14. Any higher than that and it wouldn't post. I ended up selling everything and washing my hands of Zen 1.

I've been considering splashing some cash on a Zen 2 system, but with the high cost of a good B550 board and the issues that you (and others like you) have reported, I'm having second thoughts. I've also heard quite a bit about Zen 2 machines hitching in games so that despite the relatively good average FPS that they get in reviews, the performance just doesn't feel as smooth as it does on a similarly specced Intel machine.

More Ryzen horror: my bro-in-law for years had a 4x4 DDR4 2666 MHz kit that he bought before Ryzen came out - had been using it with zero issues when he had a 6-core, quad-channel X79 rig. He spent quite a bit of money on a 1700X when Zen first released, and the only way he could get his new machine stable was to run the memory at the "auto" 2133MHz setting. He eventually bought a pricey B-die kit and now has good 3200 MHz CL14 memory performance on his newer 3950X rig.

I'm not suggesting that all Ryzen computers are buggy. By the sounds of things, a lot of people have not had any trouble at all. When trouble occurs, it seems most often to be related to the memory controller, which is bad bad with Zen, bad with Zen+, and finally decent with Zen 2. Hence my guess that OP's issue is likely with the memory in his 3200G (Zen+) rig.

<rant>
BTW it irritates the snot out of me that AMD deliberately misleads customers by giving all their "G" processors a higher model number than they deserve. You would think that like all other 3000-series Ryzens that the 3200G/3400G were Zen 2 (TSMC 7 nm) - but no, they are based on the much, much crappier Zen+ (TSMC 12 nm) architecture and process. And AMD is set to continue this cynical practice with their new Zen 2 APUs set to launch later this month - they will constitute the 4000G series even though the process is the same as the one for 3000-series CPUs without an IGP. Without doing a lot of research, many people who buy one of these will think they're getting a new generation of CPU, maybe even Zen 3!

I should add that Intel is just as bad. I'm not an Intel fanboy by *any* stretch. It's well known that Chipzilla has used similar shady model numbering sales tactics for years;. The worst was when consumers were paying like $500+ for an "i7" U-series laptop CPU that was the same 2c/4t design as the standard 2c/4t i5 chip, identical right down to # of the graphics EUs, with an extra 200MHz of tubo and a bit more cache.

At least, for the first time in >10 years I think, Intel's current generation desktop naming is clear: All chips have Hyperthreading (at last, it's not disabled in hardware on some models), and the model name consistently indicates the # of cores: Pentium (2), i3 (4), i5 (6), i7 (8), i9 (10). WAS IT THAT HARD, INTEL? Anyways, Intel's still up to their usual tricks with laptop CPUs - you have to look up the model number of the chip you're buying to find out how many cores you're getting, and it's even a little bit tricky (at least to the average PC buyer) to figure out whether you're getting Ice Lake (10 nm) or Comet Lake (14 nm+++++++++ or whatever).
</rant>
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Start by defaulting the memory 2133MHz. See if it solves the problem. Then ramp up the speed to 2400. Make sure that the board is settings the RAM timings right for 2400, since they different than 2133. Some boards call this XAMP. Asus calls it DOCP profiles.
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I suggest you use Windows memory diagnostic (just type it to search) to see if your memory is fine.
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Oct 11, 2013
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Almost American
Everyone keeps pointing to memory but I would be also looking at that PSU! 400W today isn't a lot these days.

1) Reseat the CPU
2) Reseat all RAM, swap RAM banks 1 and 2
3) Reseat PSU cables
4) Factory reset BIOS
5) Use a higher power PSU
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expresspotato wrote: Everyone keeps pointing to memory but I would be also looking at that PSU! 400W today isn't a lot these days.

1) Reseat the CPU
2) Reseat all RAM, swap RAM banks 1 and 2
3) Reseat PSU cables
4) Factory reset BIOS
5) Use a higher power PSU
This is no dedicated video card? I think 400w is enough.
But this is not a bad idea. Old PSU does go bad from time to time.
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thexdriver wrote: I've read more than a few reviews of the motherboard (ASROCK B450M HDV R4.0) complaining about random crashes after 10 mins. Various fixes included BIOS updates but the problems persisted.

My parents are 300kms away from me so I need to figure out a fix and take care of it on my next visit.
I ordered the same mobo and it wouldn't even boot, I googled around and found out that mobo had all kinds of issues. I would order an Asus equivalent (or diff model Asrock) and I bet it solves your issues, as soon as I swapped out the mobo I had zero issues.

You could try updating the BIOS to the latest if you haven't already as well. I would just ditch the mobo though, after that I think your problems will go away.
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At the very least I’d run Prime95 stress test for a few minutes just to get an idea where the problem is(display or cpu/mem)

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