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$144.99~TEAMGROUP CX2 2 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive~free shipping

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Deal Addict
Feb 18, 2007
2622 posts
5829 upvotes
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Jep4444 wrote: I generally wouldn't recommend buying SSDs from Chinese companies. We know nothing about the parts inside nor if you could even claim any form of warranty on the item (I would assume not).
Youre going to be really choked when you find out who makes the chips in your phones and cars

You people crack me up, “chinese chips” is in about 99% of the things you already interact with on a daily basis
Member
Feb 22, 2010
238 posts
19 upvotes
danascully wrote: Youre going to be really choked when you find out who makes the chips in your phones and cars

You people crack me up, “chinese chips” is in about 99% of the things you already interact with on a daily basis
You are either confusing Japanese/Korean/Taiwanese with Chinese or not understanding Jep4444's comment referring to products assembled/tested in China. With the global supply chain, electronics are nowadays made from components from multiple countries, which is what you are referring to. That has only some relevance to the relatively poor quality control/assurance from generic Chinese companies. For instance, if Fujitsu (Japanese company with a long history) makes an SSD using a Chinese part, they will test the product at the end as a whole and replace any defective parts before they sell it. They will provide reliable warranty afterwards. If Fanxiang (Chinese company no one has heard of) makes an SSD, there is a decent chance that they lied about specifications and the product may be even dead on arrival. The company then would ignore your claim and could be gone in a few years. This is unfortunately a common practice in China. I am not bashing all Chinese companies in general. They have reputable companies. For instance, if Xiaomi sold an SSD, I could trust they would function as intended. There are just not that many of them around yet.
Deal Fanatic
May 18, 2009
7288 posts
2289 upvotes
Richmond Hill
its not the country but the company
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2013
5692 posts
3830 upvotes
Toronto
Dhanushan wrote: Kingston NV1 can come with TLC or QLC

PSA: Kingston NV1 SSD Comes with a Hardware Spec Lottery: TLC or QLC, SMI or Phison
https://www.techpowerup.com/290339/psa- ... -or-phison


This NV2 1TB review unit has TLC NAND

Kingston NV2 1 TB M.2 NVMe SSD Review - Value SSD Done Right
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/king ... -nvme-ssd/
Kingston seems to be pulling some bait and switch with reviewers then, since I'm finding more reports of the drives using QLC than TLC. The TBW ratings Kingston is providing for both drives is also pointing to them being QLC drives. Maybe there are variants of both in the wild but that's a nasty lottery to be playing.
Deal Expert
Jun 20, 2020
16059 posts
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Jep4444 wrote: Kingston seems to be pulling some bait and switch with reviewers then, since I'm finding more reports of the drives using QLC than TLC. The TBW ratings Kingston is providing for both drives is also pointing to them being QLC drives. Maybe there are variants of both in the wild but that's a nasty lottery to be playing.
Kingston is not sending out review samples of the NV2 according to the TPU review
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/king ... -nvme-ssd/

"In today's review we're taking a look at the Kingston NV2, which was announced earlier this month. Kingston isn't sending out review samples of this drive, so I just bought one locally, supply is quite good."


Yes, it is a lottery with low-end Kingston drives on which NAND is used
Destiny is all
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Nov 15, 2013
5692 posts
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Dhanushan wrote: Kingston is not sending out review samples of the NV2 according to the TPU review
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/king ... -nvme-ssd/

"In today's review we're taking a look at the Kingston NV2, which was announced earlier this month. Kingston isn't sending out review samples of this drive, so I just bought one locally, supply is quite good."


Yes, it is a lottery with low-end Kingston drives on which NAND is used
Not sure I'd feel comfortable recommending a product based on it maybe being TLC.
Deal Addict
Feb 18, 2007
2622 posts
5829 upvotes
Vancouver
keinjuan wrote: You are either confusing Japanese/Korean/Taiwanese with Chinese or not understanding Jep4444's comment referring to products assembled/tested in China. With the global supply chain, electronics are nowadays made from components from multiple countries, which is what you are referring to. That has only some relevance to the relatively poor quality control/assurance from generic Chinese companies. For instance, if Fujitsu (Japanese company with a long history) makes an SSD using a Chinese part, they will test the product at the end as a whole and replace any defective parts before they sell it. They will provide reliable warranty afterwards. If Fanxiang (Chinese company no one has heard of) makes an SSD, there is a decent chance that they lied about specifications and the product may be even dead on arrival. The company then would ignore your claim and could be gone in a few years. This is unfortunately a common practice in China. I am not bashing all Chinese companies in general. They have reputable companies. For instance, if Xiaomi sold an SSD, I could trust they would function as intended. There are just not that many of them around yet.
zOmg china parts are bad!!

Please, right up there with the 5g, antivax nonsense
Deal Fanatic
Nov 15, 2013
5692 posts
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danascully wrote: zOmg china parts are bad!!

Please, right up there with the 5g, antivax nonsense
That is not at all what anyone is saying. Many Chinese companies have low standards for quality control and no standards for customer service, to the point where quality companies are the exception, not the rule. The term China brand is a derogatory term for those companies. No one is saying all Chinese made parts are bad, I'm aware most manufacturing is done in China but that's to specifications outlined by the company who contracted the plants. I'm also not gonna say all Chinese companies are bad, I've personally bought a number of Anker products for example and @keinjuan also mentioned Xiaomi. There are absolutely others, but some random Chinese company with basically no information on the internet selling cheap SSDs is a no go for me. You reaching straight for the logical fallacies, changing the argument and then trying to shut it down by name calling, that's absolute nonsense and it looks awful on you.
Member
Dec 19, 2018
320 posts
424 upvotes
Jep4444 wrote: You need to consider more than just top speeds, those tend to only be practical in niche spots anyways. The Swordfish has faster NAND (being TLC vs QLC of the NV1/NV2) so it's going to be more resilient performance wise than the NV1. I also bring up the Silicon Power A60 because it has the same controller than the NV1 and again, better NAND, it's straight up a faster drive. You hit the NV1 (or even the NV2) with a nice sized write (large install) and it'll enter HDD territory speeds, and this problem gets worse as the drive fills, the Swordfish won't do that nearly as badly. You're seriously overrating the NV1, it's a slow drive at every level, probably amongst the worst NVMe drives on the market in terms of performance, NV2 is a little better but I still generally do no recommend DRAM-less QLC drives for any purpose other than games or storage. Hell, you'd be better off using another 1TB A2000, much better drive than anything we've mentioned so far (it actually has DRAM), and plenty cheap, shame it doesn't come in 2TB.

As for NVMe vs SATA and NV1 vs CX2 as boot drives, those 3-4x speeds are imperceptible 99% of the time since most usage is random, not sequential. Having HMB really helps cover over the DRAM-less nature of the NV1 while the CX2 can't do that because SATA doesn't support HMB, so the NV1 won't be a disaster as an OS drive (the CX2 would be). As secondary storage, the extra read/write speed is nice but most people aren't regularly moving large enough files to matter. That said, I wouldn't even consider the NV1 to be a superior product to a quality SATA drive like a MX500 or WD Blue (In fact I'd consider it worse due to the lower grade controller and NAND).
We can debate about which NVMe has better controllers etc but really it comes down to money. Whatever NVMe m.2 drive offers the best combination of price and warranty is the one I would get. Whether it's Kingston, Adata or Silicon Power (which seem hard to find) they are all going to compare very similarly and all be a much better choice for an OS and computer use compared to sata based ssd's. Any 2tb NVMe m.2 drive for around $150 is a great way to start a budget gaming rig, preferably one with slc caching since none at this price range have dram.
This Teamgroup CX2 will boot slower and transfer files far slower than even the cheapest NVMe drive which are very close in pricing. There's not much of a reason to hang on to the older tech, especially when there isn't a significant cost savings. The differences in real life use might not be much but I very much prefer the m.2 interface with no cabling and if it's the same price as an sata ssd then why not have the snappiest drive possible for the money?
https://www.amazon.com/vdp/04fb2abd0e3f ... 292c21f8df
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DanielB40260 wrote: Even the cheapest NVMe drives will roast any sata SSD in performance. We can debate about which NVMe has better controllers etc but really it comes down to money. Whatever NVMe m.2 drive offers the best combination of price and warranty is the one I would get. Whether it's Kingston, Adata or Silicon Power (which seem hard to find) they are all going to compare very similarly and all be a much better choice for an OS and computer use compared to sata based ssd's. Any 2tb NVMe m.2 drive for around $150 is a great way to start a budget gaming rig, preferably one with slc caching since none at this price range have dram.
This Teamgroup CX2 will boot slower and transfer files far slower than even the cheapest NVMe drive which are very close in pricing. There's not much of a reason to hang on to the older tech, especially when there isn't a significant cost savings.
https://www.amazon.com/vdp/04fb2abd0e3f ... 292c21f8df
There's a ton to unpack here. For one, you seem to associate SLC caching and DRAM. They have nothing to do with each other.

DRAM is used for storing data pertinent to the drive while in use. Without it, the drive must either use the NAND itself (very bad for performance) or system RAM using HMB. Regardless, this typically has a negative impact on random performance, which is typically very important in day to day use.

SLC Caching, which can come in two forms, static (a fixed amount of actual SLC NAND) or dynamic (using the systems actual TLC/QLC NAND and pretending it's SLC). Outside of some older high end drives, most drives just use the dynamic variety nowadays and any cheap NVMe will use it without question. In this scenario, the drives will treat a portion of their NAND as cache, most cheap QLC drives do the whole drive but I'll avoid making that assumption because I don't know for sure. When the drive runs out of cache, it can not longer write anywhere near it's top speeds and must resort to writing directly to the NAND itself. For TLC, this is usually around 1GB/s and for QLC, this is often around 100-200MB/s. If the drive reserves the whole portion of it's space for the cache and runs out of space entirely, expect those numbers to be halved.

The above scenario might not seem like an issue, but as the drive fills, the size of that cache can shrink considerably. There are many, many complaints on the internet about massive installs (particularly games) absolutely bringing QLC drives to their knees with install speeds dropping to under 100MB/s.

At the end of the day, the SLC cache and HMB will cover up a lot of the problems with a QLC DRAM-less drive, and it's possible the people you're buying them for will never notice a difference anyways, but don't think for a second that it's a slam dunk that an inferior drive using a better interface is automatically better than the high end version of a legacy product in every way.

Now to be clear, the CX2 is the bottom of the barrel as far as SSD performance goes and worse than basically any NVMe, but compared to an MX500 or WD Blue? There are absolutely use cases that those would be preferred to an NV1.

Moving back to recommendations, because these cheaper NVMe drives perform very poorly as they fill up. I would strongly recommend getting a better 1TB drive. They'll perform better day to day and the performance degradation will be much smaller as the storage fills up. Especially in a budget gaming rig where you could add more than one drive. Those budget NVMe you mention are great for secondary drives, but they're very poor primary drives imo.
Member
Dec 19, 2018
320 posts
424 upvotes
You make great points. We'd all love to have nothing but the fastest and most durable ssd's. Since those are so uber expensive people are forced to make compromises. Since the real world differences in performance between any of these drives is mostly undetectable it really just leaves warranty length, price and interface as the determining factors for which drive to pick. This is why the Kingston, WD, Crucial and Adata budget lineup of NVMe drives are such a great bargain because your gaming/office/surfing computer is going to perform exactly the way it would with a high end ssd in it. And as you say, some of these drives may slow as they get filled but the majority of people won't notice it affect their computer usage and as a rule of thumb, never use more than 75% of your drive and you won't have that issue.
So we can debate all day about the best controllers, QLC, MLC and TLC, dram and everything else but to most people it's just marketing bs. SSD's haven't improved home users/gamers lives in many years. They were a great upgrade over platters but they're so fast that most people only use a fraction of it's power. It's like we're all driving a porsche through school zones. Just get an ssd drive with a good warranty and brand recognition that has good customer service. The biggest reasons I prefer an NVMe over the sata is because their prices are similar and you don't need cables. Sure it's a bit quicker but ssd's are already way faster than we usually ever need.
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Nov 15, 2013
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DanielB40260 wrote: You make great points. We'd all love to have nothing but the fastest and most durable ssd's. Since those are so uber expensive people are forced to make compromises. Since the real world differences in performance between any of these drives is mostly undetectable it really just leaves warranty length, price and interface as the determining factors for which drive to pick. This is why the Kingston, WD, Crucial and Adata budget lineup of NVMe drives are such a great bargain because your gaming/office/surfing computer is going to perform exactly the way it would with a high end ssd in it. And as you say, some of these drives may slow as they get filled but the majority of people won't notice it affect their computer usage and as a rule of thumb, never use more than 75% of your drive and you won't have that issue.
So we can debate all day about the best controllers, QLC, MLC and TLC, dram and everything else but to most people it's just marketing bs. SSD's haven't improved home users/gamers lives in many years. They were a great upgrade over platters but they're so fast that most people only use a fraction of it's power. It's like we're all driving a porsche through school zones. Just get an ssd drive with a good warranty and brand recognition that has good customer service. The biggest reasons I prefer an NVMe over the sata is because their prices are similar and you don't need cables. Sure it's a bit quicker but ssd's are already way faster than we usually ever need.
Except many aren't Porches at all. I don't agree that any SSD will serve any general purpose. There are real drawbacks, that are very detectable, to buying a DRAM-less QLC drive and using it as your primary option. They'll wear down faster and are horrid at any level of sustained activity. The 75% rule is a good one but do you really trust the layman to follow it? It's also a much bigger issue for a low grade drive than a higher end one (honestly, a good SSD would be fine pushing 90%) so no, I don't think it's just marketing BS. Especially since you can clearly see people complaining about poor performance on cheaper drives, the scenarios are not that hard to trigger, especially if you have a sizable Steam library (which let's be honest, most of us do Face With Tears Of Joy).

While it's nice that NVMe don't need cables, most mobo manufacturers put the primary NVMe slot (and often the secondary one) too close to the GPU so I need to take out my GPU whenever I change my drive, rendering it a total pain in the ass lol.
Newbie
Feb 21, 2022
81 posts
104 upvotes
$160 seems normal price for most Chinese brand 2TB SSD. However, I recommend brands like "Colorful" or "GreatWall" which is China's equivalent of Sandisk. There are tons of good brands in local China, just North America/ Canada retailers only sell the garbage brands to make the most profit. I just go on TaoBao or PinDuoDuo and get them. Yes, I know, you have to be Chinese to know and get it but we are living in an internet era now right? I am sure you can figure it out.

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