Real Estate

No lease, cancelling verbal agreement for internet.

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  • Apr 9th, 2020 11:07 am
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No lease, cancelling verbal agreement for internet.

Hi,

I rent an apartment from a shady landlord who refuses to provide leases or receipts.
I verbally agreed to Chip in $25/month for internet.
Because the guy puts the router on the 2nd floor , the connection in the basement is extremely poor. It functions more like 56k internet. Only good enough for light browsing.

What are the official rules in Ontario for opting out of the $25/month internet access?
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UrbanPoet wrote: Hi,

I rent an apartment from a shady landlord who refuses to provide leases or receipts.
I verbally agreed to Chip in $25/month for internet.
Because the guy puts the router on the 2nd floor , the connection in the basement is extremely poor. It functions more like 56k internet. Only good enough for light browsing.

What are the official rules in Ontario for opting out of the $25/month internet access?
I don't think you have any recourse. You are getting Internet access, which is what they agreed to provide. If you chose not to use it, that's up to you. If you want to change that agreement, you could try to remind him of that (preferably in an e-mail) of that part of the agreement, and you'd like to "cancel" the $25/month portion, but if he doesn't chose to accept that, you may not have an option. One party can't unilaterally change a contract unless there's either agreement between both parties, or there's wording in the contract allowing changes and any conditions. You could terminate the entire lease (depending on your situation, timing, etc), but that seems like overkill.

I don't think there's any "official rules" for things like this. It's not part of the RTA, aside from the fact that if the landlord was providing a service at the start of the lease, they have to continue providing that service for the duration of the lease (like Internet, parking, etc). Presumably, they could negotiate with the tenant if they wanted to bail on providing that service, but if the tenant refuses, their only option would be to attempt a hearing with the LTB where both sides would plead their case.

That's my unofficial, IANAL, response. Good luck! And perhaps next time, don't rent from shady landlords...

C
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CNeufeld wrote: I don't think you have any recourse. You are getting Internet access, which is what they agreed to provide. If you chose not to use it, that's up to you. If you want to change that agreement, you could try to remind him of that (preferably in an e-mail) of that part of the agreement, and you'd like to "cancel" the $25/month portion, but if he doesn't chose to accept that, you may not have an option. One party can't unilaterally change a contract unless there's either agreement between both parties, or there's wording in the contract allowing changes and any conditions. You could terminate the entire lease (depending on your situation, timing, etc), but that seems like overkill.

I don't think there's any "official rules" for things like this. It's not part of the RTA, aside from the fact that if the landlord was providing a service at the start of the lease, they have to continue providing that service for the duration of the lease (like Internet, parking, etc). Presumably, they could negotiate with the tenant if they wanted to bail on providing that service, but if the tenant refuses, their only option would be to attempt a hearing with the LTB where both sides would plead their case.

That's my unofficial, IANAL, response. Good luck! And perhaps next time, don't rent from shady landlords...

C
I understood what you said
More specifically. I wanted to highlight...
Internet service wasnt included in the verbal agreement to rent.
Only later on were these exact words were said

“Hey can i chip in for the internet bill & get the wifi password?”
“Ok hows $25/month?”
“Ok sure.”
Last edited by UrbanPoet on Apr 8th, 2020 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Why not just run a cable to the basement and install an access point?
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He’s shady yet you went along with a verbal lease? Where is the accountability?
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JayLove06 wrote: He’s shady yet you went along with a verbal lease? Where is the accountability?
It was the deal of the century. I just have to put the smack down on him when ever he does illegal things.
By smack down, thats threatening to go to the LTB for things like walking through the apartment whenever we arent home or trying to raise rent by 50%.
Or the illegal evict for personal usage scam.
All of them smacked down.

I won’t say... but it is the deal of the century.
If you knew the deal i was getting... you’d probably throw up. No i guarantee you’d cry @ that one. Lol

Its not my fault he wouldn't provide a lease or receipts. Thats the landlords responsibility.
Last edited by UrbanPoet on Apr 8th, 2020 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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UrbanPoet wrote: He refuses to. I think in spite because i thwarted his attempt at trying to evict me for personal use.
and now youre trying to get out of a 25 month internet portion to save 1000/month on rent. God youre cheap
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Sparky9087 wrote: and now youre trying to get out of a 25 month internet portion to save 1000/month on rent. God youre cheap
Would you pay for subpar service? I’m paying for a service here, and i’m not getting it. Or at least, getting it very poorly.

Yes i have tried to make arrangements to run a line down to the basement. Offered to cover all cost and labor associated with it. I even offered a $500 visa gift card for his troubles on top of it. And he refused.



If i no longer needed internet access and choose to get my own... why not?


Its funny how you think im cheap for being a honourable and Fair person who follows the law (unlike the evil landlord who chooses to disregard the law and not pay any taxes)... i’m unfair because i choose not to allow the landlord to do something illegal.
Last edited by UrbanPoet on Apr 8th, 2020 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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UrbanPoet wrote: I understood what you said
More specifically. I wanted to highlight...
Internet service wasnt included in the verbal agreement to rent.
Only later on were these exact words were said

“Hey can i chip in for the internet bill & get the wifi password?”
“Ok hows $25/month?”
“Ok sure.”
So upfront you agreed to say $1000 per month (making up a number) rent, then threw in $25 for internet so now you pay him $1025? And you've been paying this from the beginning? Or are you paying him $1000 then a separate $25 for internet?

If it's a separate $25 payment then it's easy, just stop paying as it's separate from the rent.

However if part of the rent, then it's pretty much an all-in rent cost. If you unilaterally said you weren't paying anymore for internet and just gave him $1000 for rent, he could claim you didn't pay full rent ($25 short), serve you with an N4 form for non-payment of full rent, and start the eviction process (when LTB opens back up again).

So first you will need to get him to agree to remove the $25 internet charge from your rent payments. If he refuses, then just need to suck it up and continue paying for crappy internet. Try buying a wi-fi booster that he can put on the router.

If you had agreed to some minimum standard of internet (i.e. minimum speed, connection always on, etc) that you think he is breaking, you may have a claim with the LTB to get him to fix the problem or come to some other arangement.
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rob444 wrote: So upfront you agreed to say $1000 per month (making up a number) rent, then threw in $25 for internet so now you pay him $1025? And you've been paying this from the beginning? Or are you paying him $1000 then a separate $25 for internet?

If it's a separate $25 payment then it's easy, just stop paying as it's separate from the rent.

However if part of the rent, then it's pretty much an all-in rent cost. If you unilaterally said you weren't paying anymore for internet and just gave him $1000 for rent, he could claim you didn't pay full rent ($25 short), serve you with an N4 form for non-payment of full rent, and start the eviction process (when LTB opens back up again).

So first you will need to get him to agree to remove the $25 internet charge from your rent payments. If he refuses, then just need to suck it up and continue paying for crappy internet. Try buying a wi-fi booster that he can put on the router.

If you had agreed to some minimum standard of internet (i.e. minimum speed, connection always on, etc) that you think he is breaking, you may have a claim with the LTB to get him to fix the problem or come to some other arangement.
It was a separate charge.
Example.
Month 1 we paid $1000 for rent.
Month 2 , we asked to chip in for internet... agreed to $25/month.
Transfers were sent for an amount of $1025 combining the 2 totals. For simplicity sake, rather then sending 2 etransfers every month.
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UrbanPoet wrote: Would you pay for subpar service? I’m paying for a service here, and i’m not getting it.

If i no longer needed internet access and choose to get my own... why not?


Its funny how you think im cheap for being a honourable and Fair person who follows the law (unlike the evil landlord who chooses to disregard the law and not pay any taxes)... i’m unfair because i choose not to allow the landlord to do something illegal.
Are you paying the $25 as part of your existing rent cheques? Cash on the side? And again... Unless you were guaranteed particular service levels, you, you're getting Internet service, so you're getting what you asked for. In fact, based on the conversation you quoted above, you asked if you could "chip in on the Internet bill and get the wifi password". Which you got.

If he has a stack of cheques with the "+$25" amount, you could tell him that you'd like to stop using his Internet service, and will give him new cheques with the lower amount on them. If he refuses, you'd have to put a stop payment on the cheques and give him new ones anyway. If you give him cheques or cash every month, then just tell him that you want to cancel the Internet portion of the agreement, and will be giving him $25 less. He's probably going to get pissy (from what you have said about him), but there's not much HE can do about it either. And he can't evict you for not paying it, as it's not part of your lease. And he'd have fun trying to get any kind of eviction notice dealt with these days anyway. But he could chose to make your life more hellish, as a landlord.

If you think he's doing something "illegal", then go ahead and report him. Otherwise, you're not much different than he is.

C
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UrbanPoet wrote: It was a separate charge.
Example.
Month 1 we paid $1000 for rent.
Month 2 , we asked to chip in for internet... agreed to $25/month.
Transfers were sent for an amount of $1025 combining the 2 totals. For simplicity sake, rather then sending 2 etransfers every month.
The absence of a lease stating an actual rent amount, complicates your situation.

As I said if you're paying now $1025 in a single payment, that could be seen as an agreed upon "all in" rent cost which includes internet. Any attempt to change this all-in amount needs to be agreed upon by the both of you as it would constitute a new rental agreement. So ask him and see what he says.

Had you kept the rent + internet as 2 separate charges, then you could have simply stopped paying the internet portion.
Or if you had a lease agreement that stated it was $1000 for the rent, then you also may have gotten away with simply reducing the payment.
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CNeufeld wrote: Are you paying the $25 as part of your existing rent cheques? Cash on the side? And again... Unless you were guaranteed particular service levels, you, you're getting Internet service, so you're getting what you asked for. In fact, based on the conversation you quoted above, you asked if you could "chip in on the Internet bill and get the wifi password". Which you got.

If he has a stack of cheques with the "+$25" amount, you could tell him that you'd like to stop using his Internet service, and will give him new cheques with the lower amount on them. If he refuses, you'd have to put a stop payment on the cheques and give him new ones anyway. If you give him cheques or cash every month, then just tell him that you want to cancel the Internet portion of the agreement, and will be giving him $25 less. He's probably going to get pissy (from what you have said about him), but there's not much HE can do about it either. And he can't evict you for not paying it, as it's not part of your lease. And he'd have fun trying to get any kind of eviction notice dealt with these days anyway. But he could chose to make your life more hellish, as a landlord.

If you think he's doing something "illegal", then go ahead and report him. Otherwise, you're not much different than he is.

C
?
I have reported all the illegal activity. I choose to be the better man and not take it all the way to the LTB and destroy the guy.
We always come to a sort of haphazard solution.

He is trying to do the shady landlord thing... but does so in a timid kind of “i hope this works!” Way, but always backs out.

For example... its well within my legal right to take an N12 to the LtB.
When i told him “ok go ahead and get your lawyer”.
A month later he says “the situation has changed and my ______ family member no longer needs the unit...”.
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you’re both shady. A match made in heaven.
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What do you mean cancelling if you dont have any agreement.
Tell your LL that you dont need his internet and he will change password on network.
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JayLove06 wrote: you’re both shady. A match made in heaven.
Its only shady because i pay less then market rent... which offends you. Just saying.
I’m also a “lowly tenant” which automatically offends you. I’ve done nothing wrong and could utterly destroy you on any argument against such.

It just seems like anything unfavourable to a landlord (even if legal and justified) makes that person shady to you.

An aside. Not everything has to be a landlord vs tenant evil bears vs bulls super 99% price drop crash arguement.

This is simply a situation. Which i seek a remedy &/or solution.
Notice how i’m doing my research before doing any action? Boom... urbanpoet 100% in the right...
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Wifi range extender? Put it between you and the router to boost your signal/speed.

If you were willing to pay labour to run a line down to your unit AND top up with $500, then a range extender should be an acceptable cost, no?
[OP]
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CNeufeld wrote: Are you paying the $25 as part of your existing rent cheques? Cash on the side? And again... Unless you were guaranteed particular service levels, you, you're getting Internet service, so you're getting what you asked for. In fact, based on the conversation you quoted above, you asked if you could "chip in on the Internet bill and get the wifi password". Which you got.

If he has a stack of cheques with the "+$25" amount, you could tell him that you'd like to stop using his Internet service, and will give him new cheques with the lower amount on them. If he refuses, you'd have to put a stop payment on the cheques and give him new ones anyway. If you give him cheques or cash every month, then just tell him that you want to cancel the Internet portion of the agreement, and will be giving him $25 less. He's probably going to get pissy (from what you have said about him), but there's not much HE can do about it either. And he can't evict you for not paying it, as it's not part of your lease. And he'd have fun trying to get any kind of eviction notice dealt with these days anyway. But he could chose to make your life more hellish, as a landlord.

If you think he's doing something "illegal", then go ahead and report him. Otherwise, you're not much different than he is.

C
rob444 wrote: The absence of a lease stating an actual rent amount, complicates your situation.

As I said if you're paying now $1025 in a single payment, that could be seen as an agreed upon "all in" rent cost which includes internet. Any attempt to change this all-in amount needs to be agreed upon by the both of you as it would constitute a new rental agreement. So ask him and see what he says.

Had you kept the rent + internet as 2 separate charges, then you could have simply stopped paying the internet portion.
Or if you had a lease agreement that stated it was $1000 for the rent, then you also may have gotten away with simply reducing the payment.
rob444 wrote: So upfront you agreed to say $1000 per month (making up a number) rent, then threw in $25 for internet so now you pay him $1025? And you've been paying this from the beginning? Or are you paying him $1000 then a separate $25 for internet?

If it's a separate $25 payment then it's easy, just stop paying as it's separate from the rent.

However if part of the rent, then it's pretty much an all-in rent cost. If you unilaterally said you weren't paying anymore for internet and just gave him $1000 for rent, he could claim you didn't pay full rent ($25 short), serve you with an N4 form for non-payment of full rent, and start the eviction process (when LTB opens back up again).

So first you will need to get him to agree to remove the $25 internet charge from your rent payments. If he refuses, then just need to suck it up and continue paying for crappy internet. Try buying a wi-fi booster that he can put on the router.

If you had agreed to some minimum standard of internet (i.e. minimum speed, connection always on, etc) that you think he is breaking, you may have a claim with the LTB to get him to fix the problem or come to some other arangement.
Okay... thanks for providing some proper answers.
Any cnuefeld for a fabulous answer with a perhaps small passive aggressive “landlord vs tenant bear vs bull war!” Jab.
I said perhaps. Because maybe your were trying to convey a different message.

I thought so too. The difficulty is in proving the $25/internet is a separate charge.
& not part of the rent.
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yang wrote: Wifi range extender? Put it between you and the router to boost your signal/speed.

If you were willing to pay labour to run a line down to your unit AND top up with $500, then a range extender should be an acceptable cost, no?
I have a feeling the landlord is denying the request in spite.
Which is why i’m exploring options of cancelling and getting my own service.

Despite this... i’m still going @ this diplomatically and see if he’ll change his mind.

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