Real Estate

Is it normal for a realtor to ask for a bank account number?

  • Last Updated:
  • May 19th, 2020 9:32 pm
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3779 upvotes
Thornhill
FrancisBacon wrote: Thank you for submitting the paperwork. As we communicated by email, you have written confirmation that you tried to obtain the information but that the client declined.
Unfortunately I won't be able to come see you since I'm minimizing contacts due to the current pandemic, and anyway it wouldn't change my position.
Have a great long weekend, x.
This is horrible advice!

You're setting up someone whom you have zero resonsibility to and probably don't even now for a Suspicious Record Activity Report to the RCMP.

And they, if they take this advice from you who who they probably don;t even know nor owes them no duty of anything and causes that Suspicious Record Activity report to be made, then what advice will you have for them?
Deal Addict
May 12, 2014
3209 posts
3110 upvotes
Montreal
licenced wrote: Since the buyer does not have to comply ( at the risk of being reported to FINTRAC as a suspicious activity), they can tell the Realtor to state on the form, that it came directly from their bank account.
LOL! This was from you, just above!
Deal Addict
May 12, 2014
3209 posts
3110 upvotes
Montreal
licenced wrote: You're setting up someone ... for a Suspicious Record Activity Report to the RCMP.
... of anything and causes that Suspicious Record Activity report to be made, then what advice will you have for them?
Lol again. First, they would never know if a SAR was filed. I know I've had many filed on me, and I was never told (I know because I met the statutory obligatory conditions). Nothing has ever come of it.

If you think the RCMP will investigate because someone refused to provide their bank account you're delusional.

And finally, if the money is clean, nothing will happen.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3779 upvotes
Thornhill
FrancisBacon wrote:
LOL! This was from you, just above!
That is correct, the client does not have to comply. That is at the client's peril. Not shockingly you left off the part where I asked why they would not comply. It's like saying because someone doesn't have to incriminate themself they are not guilty of a crime.
FrancisBacon wrote: Lol again. First, they would never know if a SAR was filed. I know I've had many filed on me, and I was never told (I know because I met the statutory obligatory conditions). Nothing has ever come of it.

If you think the RCMP will investigate because someone refused to provide their bank account you're delusional.

And finally, if the money is clean, nothing will happen.
Don't give out false information you obvioulsy know little to nothing about the mandated reporting requirements!
Because of the importance of FINTRAC's financial intelligence to the overall safety and security of Canadians and Canada's financial system, FINTRAC reviews and assesses every STR it receives.
https://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/guidan ... ide2/2-eng
ML/TF indicators are potential red flags that could initiate suspicion or indicate that something may be unusual in the absence of a reasonable explanation...

he following are examples of ML/TF indicators that you may observe when identifying persons or entities.

The client refuses or tries to avoid providing information required or provides information that is misleading, vague, or difficult to verify.
Attempts to verify the information provided by a new or prospective client are difficult.

The contextual information acquired through the know your client (KYC) requirements or the behaviour of a client, particularly surrounding a transaction or a pattern of transactions, may lead you to conduct an assessment in order to determine if you are required to submit an STR to FINTRAC. The following are some examples of ML/TF indicators that are linked to contextual behavior and may be used in conjunction with your assessment and your risk based approach.

Client exhibits nervous behaviour.
The client refuses to provide information when required, or is reluctant to provide information.
Client has a defensive stance to questioning.
Client avoids contact with reporting entity employees.
The client refuses to identify a source for funds or provides information that is false, misleading, or substantially incorrect.
Insufficient explanation for source of funds.


https://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/guidan ... l_mltf-eng
Deal Addict
May 12, 2014
3209 posts
3110 upvotes
Montreal
licenced wrote: That is correct, the client does not have to comply. That is at the client's peril. (...)
Don't give out false information you obvioulsy know little to nothing about the mandated reporting requirements!
There is no "peril".

I know the reporting requirements very well. Maybe better than you. If there was anything remotely false in what I wrote, please point it out.

Bottom line is, client doesn't want to comply for whatever reason and there will be no realistic negative effects. As you yourself admits, large numbers (most?) brokers are not collecting the info.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3779 upvotes
Thornhill
FrancisBacon wrote: There is no "peril".

I know the reporting requirements very well. Maybe better than you. If there was anything remotely false in what I wrote, please point it out.

Bottom line is, client doesn't want to comply for whatever reason and there will be no realistic negative effects. As you yourself admits, large numbers (most?) brokers are not collecting the info.
You know nothing, as was obvious starting that was clearly demonstrated in my last post which implicitly refutes your claim s, what past of this confused you?
Because of the importance of FINTRAC's financial intelligence to the overall safety and security of Canadians and Canada's financial system, FINTRAC reviews and assesses every STR it receives.
https://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/guidan ... ide2/2-eng
and this?
Client avoids contact with reporting entity employees.
The client refuses to identify a source for funds or provides information that is false, misleading, or substantially incorrect.


Unless you're one of the persons required to report to FINTRAC your ignorance of it is acceptable - that you were not prodded for inforamtion only goes to show that many Realtors have no clue what they are required to inform themselves of. More importantly, that the Realtor is asking for the OP to present themselves in person is telling - but that such a request is made of the client, escapes you, yet I'm pretty sure there were some in here whose eyebrows raised at that , no doubt youmissed it and still will miss the implication, but that's your problem and OPs not mine.

Unless someone has something to hide, just provide the information and nothing will come of it. It's that simple, but to come onto a forum, and look for reasons to throw up roadblocks is to invite unnecessary scrutiny.

The Realtor is doing as she is mandated by law under penalty of fines of up to $2 million and imprisonment of up to 5 years.
Canada’s financial watchdog found that many real-estate companies are violating money laundering rules as they are neither checking the identities of their clients, nor are they reporting large cash deals to the government.

FinTRAC audited 500 companies but “due to sector-wide vulnerabilities to money laundering,” 172 of them were real-estate developers, brokers and sales representatives.

At half of the targeted companies, real estate agents were not trained properly to detect money laundering and to verify their clients identities.

“We know that in Canada real estate is extensively exploited for the purpose of money laundering,” explained former FinTRAC intelligence officer Matt McGuire to Global News - the outlet that first acquired the report..

“So it’s important that this first line of defense, the people that actually interacted with those buying or selling properties, pay attention to potential indicators that there might be crime behind,” he said.

he FinTRAC report acknowledged that the real-estate sector “still has one of the lowest reporting levels,” despite having improved the most in anti-money laundering compliance since the last audit.

In 2019, an expert panel estimated that 5,3 billion dollars (US$ 4 billion) were laundered through real-estate in Canada in 2018.
https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/11760-ca ... ring-rules
But frankly, I couldn't care less what OP does. I've given them the cleaner route to follow. You are taking them down a dangerous path.
Deal Addict
Sep 2, 2009
2142 posts
2147 upvotes
Ottawa
If the client doesn't want to provide the info - from Record keeping requirements for the real estate sector (FINTRAC) : "When reasonable measures are unsuccessful, you must record the following information:

the measures taken;
the date on which the measure was taken; and
the reasons why the measures were unsuccessful."

Nothing more, nothing less.
Deal Addict
May 12, 2014
3209 posts
3110 upvotes
Montreal
licenced wrote: You know nothing, as was obvious starting ...
Oh lord. If there was anything false in my post it would have been trivial to point it out in a single sentence.

Fintrac gets millions of reports per year. Even if the OP is reported nothing will come of it.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
17294 posts
14688 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
oasis100 wrote: Its legal
Fintrac form.
Maybe legal, but the question was if it was normal. I have never had to give a cheque to a realtor and then confirm the account number.

You know it's not normal.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 27, 2004
6650 posts
4555 upvotes
Toronto
JayLove06 wrote: Maybe legal, but the question was if it was normal. I have never had to give a cheque to a realtor and then confirm the account number.

You know it's not normal.
absolutely normal. i ask for it all the time. I do like 30 deals a year. many people on rfd have used me. i also ask for it when i give them a rebate now because my brokerage only EFT the rebates.
The deal adminstrator at my office will come after me for the bank account info on that fintrac form.

There is nothing malicious going on.
Full-time Realtor
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
17294 posts
14688 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
oasis100 wrote: absolutely normal. i ask for it all the time. I do like 30 deals a year. many people on rfd have used me. i also ask for it when i give them a rebate now because my brokerage only EFT the rebates.
The deal adminstrator at my office will come after me for the bank account info on that fintrac form.

There is nothing malicious going on.
Fair enough, but I'v enever been asked and figure the account number is on the cheque anyways.
Deal Fanatic
Mar 27, 2004
6650 posts
4555 upvotes
Toronto
JayLove06 wrote: Fair enough, but I'v enever been asked and figure the account number is on the cheque anyways.
the bank draft shows the banks account it is drawn from. not the persons own account number.
Full-time Realtor
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
17294 posts
14688 upvotes
Tarrana & The Ri…
oasis100 wrote: the bank draft shows the banks account it is drawn from. not the persons own account number.
forgot we were talking about a bank draft. Still, I have never been asked and I don't seem to be the only one. Why is that? Maybe it's because I provided it previously? But never has an agent asked me to provide it the way OP is saying.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3779 upvotes
Thornhill
FrancisBacon wrote: Fintrac gets millions of reports per year. Even if the OP is reported nothing will come of it.
I at least provided a direct quote from FINTRAC that said they look into ever suspicious transaction report.

You pulled this from where, exactly?

I've no use for your dishonest debate.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3779 upvotes
Thornhill
JayLove06 wrote: Maybe legal, but the question was if it was normal. I have never had to give a cheque to a realtor and then confirm the account number.

You know it's not normal.
Normal doesn't hold up in a court of law. Legal does.

It's not normal to go at or under the speed limit. It is illegal to go above the speed limit.

It's not normal to not jayway if the crosswalk is 50 feet away. It is illegal to jay walk

It's not normal to resist reading text messages while stopped at a red light. It is illegal to read text messages while stopped at a red light.

Point being, no court will care what you may consider normal, they care what is legal and what is not.

The Realtor by law, is required to request the information, - that they don't ask you only goes to show they're underinformed for the job they hold. The client's not obligated to provide it, but the client then must accept the possible consequences of non-acceptance.
Deal Addict
Jan 15, 2017
4765 posts
4501 upvotes
Ottawa
AuburnMeadows wrote: This is what the realtor said.

She claims she will be audited if she doesn't get it.

No problem. I have to submit all of my paperwork to the office before 5pm and I don't have the account info so I am going to submit but I know there will be backlash from my office for non compliance and I will get alot of heat. I would appreciate you coming to see me so I can get that done as we simply cannot not be in compliance. I hope you have talked to *Lawyer* and *Lawyer* and that you understand that this is all of Canada not just our brokerage.
FYI - here is the FINTRAC link that identifies the record keeping requirements for the real estate sector in all of Canada: https://www.fintrac-canafe.gc.ca/guidan ... d/real-eng.

The Receipt of Funds Record is clearly identified as being a required and must include:

if an account was affected by the transaction (i.e. funds withdrawn from or deposited to an account), include the:
account number and type of account;
full name of the account holder; and
the currency in which the transaction was conducted.

It really is easier to just provide the requested information.
Deal Addict
May 12, 2014
3209 posts
3110 upvotes
Montreal
licenced wrote: I've no use for your dishonest debate.
Still can't point out which of the 5 lines of text I wrote were wrong so you resort to this?

Try again.

I don't know what relevance the stuff you quoted had. It certainly wasn't relevant to my posts.

As for fintrac getting millions of reports, I thought it was common knowledge. Only took me 5 mins of Googling to find the auditors' report confirming it. I'd normally post the link but since you're being cross I'll let you do the work.


Bottom line is the OP can refuse to give the information, and drive 2km over the speed limit, and take 3 sugar packets from McDonald's even though he didn't buy anything.... and nothing will come of it.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 3, 2011
6517 posts
3779 upvotes
Thornhill
FrancisBacon wrote: As for fintrac getting millions of reports, I thought it was common knowledge. Only took me 5 mins of Googling to find the auditors' report confirming it. I'd normally post the link but since you're being cross I'll let you do the work.
lmao! of course you did can

and can't!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jun 6, 2007
1081 posts
139 upvotes
Toronto
OP, Your Agent most likely wants to fill out a report to FINTRAC.
Stumbled upon RFD by mistake, best mistake of my internet life i must say...... :D

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