Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

Deal Addict
Dec 6, 2006
4524 posts
1153 upvotes
Toronto
skunkyjosh wrote: RFD is pro Tangerine & pro non-bank lenders. Fact is you can get same or better rates from the big banks depending of who you are and what are your assets with the financial institution. There's a myth where people claim that non-bank lenders offer a better package and better rates, don't be fooled... if you pay less you get less. Just do your own researches and then make your own conclusion on where to get your mortgage. Don't let them troll you.
Who has ever gotten better rates with big banks than non-bank lenders via broker? You? What did you get?

I did my research and made my decision last year. Non-bank please thank you. Rates are significant better with same/similar terms, and all done online & phone. I went to a few bank branches to try to get some quotes.... long wait times, representatives taking their sweet little time to do anything, asking lots of info & documents from us before mentioning what rates were available (one had to wait a week before calling us back about the rates!), yet some had difficulty answering our simple questions like what to do with my wife income estimate coming off met leave, .... and then the rates offered were crap.

I spent less than setting up my whole real mortgage with the non-bank lender via a broker, than trying to get a couple of quotes from the big banks.
Newbie
Oct 9, 2014
49 posts
18 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
skunkyjosh wrote:
Singh_21 wrote:
skunkyjosh wrote: RFD is pro Tangerine & pro non-bank lenders. Fact is you can get same or better rates from the big banks depending of who you are and what are your assets with the financial institution. There's a myth where people claim that non-bank lenders offer a better package and better rates, don't be fooled... if you pay less you get less. Just do your own researches and then make your own conclusion on where to get your mortgage. Don't let them troll you.
Are you saying a major bank is offering better or same:2.05% on 5 year variable and 2.19% on fixed 5 year fixed..of course after your best negotiation? What if you don't have any assets at that bank? Do you still stand a chance?
Your best odds of getting strong rates are on renewals since it cost them pretty much nothing to renew your mortgage. On a new mortgage, it's a different game but it's still possible to match what non-bank lenders offers. They make you believe it's not possible so you do business with them. However, will the mortgage specialist from the big bank agrees to reduce his commission for you? Just remember that if you work with a big bank as a mortgage specialist, you split your commission with the big boys . If you work as a non-bank lender mortgage specialist, you don't have to split your commission as much which is why they offer lower rate. If you don't run through mortgage prepayment charges by breaking your current mortgage, the difference is not that big, especially with discounts you might be able to get at the time of the renewal. There's also the convenience of walking into the bricks and motors and the how you feel as having "one bank one stop" for all your needs.
My experience suggests that even for renewals the banks (at least sometimes) don't want to give a competitive rates.

I am in the process of renewing. I started by getting approved by a NBL and then went to my current lender (National Bank) with the rate. The best National would offer was 2.48% for a 5 yr fixed, even though my approved loan was for far less and they knew what the offer was. Frankly they would have had to offer me a much lower rate than I had because of the ridiculous way they calculate IRD, and because I had been really unhappy with their service. I agree that renewing costs them next to nothing, but in this case
they had no interest in coming to a competitive rate even though I was in a very strong negotiating position. I was surprised.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 1, 2015
1966 posts
918 upvotes
Etobicoke, ON
We hear this everyday. The absolute majority of the clients that talk to me and currently have a mortgage with a big bank end up leaving the bank, once they try and renew their mortgages and are offered obscene rates. The main thing that still keeps a lot of people from saving a fortune (using a broker to get a mortgage with a monoline lender) is the fact that people are so scared as they simply dont understand how solid these "no name" gigantic financial institutions are, and how safe they are. I have never heard a client question or consider their bank as a fragile institution that could eventually be in financial trouble.. yet - a lot of people somehow believe that a lender such as Industrial Alliance, which has been in business for over a century and has 100 BILLION dollars under their management, will go bankrupt a week after disbursing their mortgage.
Not to mention the punitive and silly penalty formulas used by banks, to forcibly keep their clients in the event they break their mortgages... or monthly fees charged by those banks.

On client recently mentioned that one of the reasons he was maintaining his mortgage with RBC was the fact he does not pay a monthly fee, waived as he has 3 products with them...

It will take time, but people will eventually understand how this market works and how they can benefit. Those that prefer not to get educated on how this actually works, will continue paying the price for the privilege of being client of a big bank.

Disclaimer : I can arrange mortgages with banks and monoline lenders. There are cases where a mortgage with a bank (for instance - rental properties) makes more sense, but for the majority of people with a mortgage on their primary residence, there is a world of financial options out there worth checking out.
Andre Oliveira - Mortgage Agent at Valuemortgage
2018 Top 20 National - Mortgage Intelligence
FSCO # 10428
Sr. Member
User avatar
Mar 11, 2004
760 posts
561 upvotes
Quebec City
jakeoh wrote:
valuemortgage wrote: 2.19% is an excellent rate.... keep in mind that this is not the average rate on the market, and only a pair of lenders can do that rate.
Thanks. I'm only asking to have a reference value, no one has offered me this yet. I' just not sure what a good rate is in my situation. If any of you have a good offer or need any more details, feel free to PM me.
Ratehub.ca gives me a 2,29% quote with Canwise (90K renewal). Tangerine (with which I currently am) might match this rate, I'll know tomorrow. Would it be a good rate or can I get even better?
Deal Guru
User avatar
Aug 8, 2012
10198 posts
3978 upvotes
BC
skunkyjosh wrote:
ace604 wrote:
skunkyjosh wrote:

Your best odds of getting strong rates are on renewals since it cost them pretty much nothing to renew your mortgage. On a new mortgage, it's a different game but it's still possible to match what non-bank lenders offers. They make you believe it's not possible so you do business with them. However, will the mortgage specialist from the big bank agrees to reduce his commission for you? Just remember that if you work with a big bank as a mortgage specialist, you split your commission with the big boys . If you work as a non-bank lender mortgage specialist, you don't have to split your commission as much which is why they offer lower rate. If you don't run through mortgage prepayment charges by breaking your current mortgage, the difference is not that big, especially with discounts you might be able to get at the time of the renewal. There's also the convenience of walking into the bricks and motors and the how you feel as having "one bank one stop" for all your needs.

Which bank do you work for?
You are trying to compare the bank mortgage specialist commission with a broker?
Let's compare the overhead cost of the lenders. The bank has to pay for thousands of branches and employees and marketing commercials with animated penguins, etc.

That money comes from profits they make off your mortgage and other banking.

It's the same as with savings accounts. Online savings accounts pay higher rates and have lower overhead costs.

A bank doesn't care if it loses your mortgage if you are a hard negotiator because they will just replace it with a mortgage for a non-negotiating sucker.

This has been the experience of many.
Do you give your money to the less fortunate people like itinerants and homeless people too just because they don't have the same luck as everyone else?
All I'm saying is that non-bank lenders can only provide better rates right away due to commission fees being lower than bank lenders. Are you saying it's false?

I've had mortgages with Multi-Pret, TD, RBC and BMO in the past.
Yes, I'm saying this is false: "non-bank lenders can only provide better rates right away due to commission fees being lower than bank lenders"
You are totally ignoring all other costs other than commission (of which there are many, not the least of which is branch overhead, staff overhead, marketing overhead, etc.)
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Deal Fanatic
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Feb 2, 2014
7569 posts
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Toronto
jakeoh wrote:
jakeoh wrote:
valuemortgage wrote: 2.19% is an excellent rate.... keep in mind that this is not the average rate on the market, and only a pair of lenders can do that rate.
Thanks. I'm only asking to have a reference value, no one has offered me this yet. I' just not sure what a good rate is in my situation. If any of you have a good offer or need any more details, feel free to PM me.
Ratehub.ca gives me a 2,29% quote with Canwise (90K renewal). Tangerine (with which I currently am) might match this rate, I'll know tomorrow. Would it be a good rate or can I get even better?
Do you have a collateral charge mortgage with Tangerine?
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
Deal Addict
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Sep 23, 2014
1722 posts
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Toronto, ON
I am surprised that many people spend more time researching trivial purchases than fully educating themselves on the options available when it comes to mortgages. This probably explains why many Canadians are in perilous financial shape.
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Deal Guru
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Aug 8, 2012
10198 posts
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BC
traderjay wrote: I am surprised that many people spend more time researching trivial purchases than fully educating themselves on the options available when it comes to mortgages. This probably explains why many Canadians are in perilous financial shape.
I'm not surprised. It doesn't make sense, but I'm not surprised.

People spend more time comparison shopping small items than mortgages.
Or planning a vacation then planning their investments for retirement :)

Financial education and literacy in Canada is a bit sad.
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Sr. Member
User avatar
Mar 11, 2004
760 posts
561 upvotes
Quebec City
jakeoh wrote: Ratehub.ca gives me a 2,29% quote with Canwise (90K renewal). Tangerine (with which I currently am) might match this rate, I'll know tomorrow. Would it be a good rate or can I get even better?
Tangerine just responded that their best rate would be 2,39% for a 5 year fixed. Still looking for a better rate.
Jr. Member
Feb 14, 2010
140 posts
8 upvotes
Beaumont
Good morning all,

My wife and I are looking to sell our starter home (Edmonton area) and purchase larger. We expect to have about $70k in equity, and we are looking at purchasing up to $450k. We are going to try for 20% down payment.

We've been speaking with a broker, who is quoting as follows:
1 year 2.29%
2 year 2.19%
3 year 2.24%
4 year 2.34%
5 year 2.44%

And the broker has also quoted prime -.4% for a 5 yr variable. Just as a sanity check, are these rates similar to market? Thanks for reading / responding :)
Deal Addict
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Dec 1, 2015
1966 posts
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Etobicoke, ON
Brutal rates.... you can easily get :

2y at 2.04%
3y at 2.09%
4y at 2.29%
5y at 2.19%

5y variable at 2.05% (P-.65)

Maybe it is time to get another broker.
Andre Oliveira - Mortgage Agent at Valuemortgage
2018 Top 20 National - Mortgage Intelligence
FSCO # 10428
Jr. Member
Feb 14, 2010
140 posts
8 upvotes
Beaumont
valuemortgage wrote: Brutal rates.... you can easily get :

2y at 2.04%
3y at 2.09%
4y at 2.29%
5y at 2.19%

5y variable at 2.05% (P-.65)

Maybe it is time to get another broker.
Hi, thanks for the quick reply. Who would offer that, and at what terms? I'm looking for 20/20, I shouldn't need to get out unless I sell, and I don't want a ridiculous IRD.
Deal Addict
Nov 15, 2006
1655 posts
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For Edmonton, I see 1.95 with 20/20 for 5 yr variable on ratehub.
Deal Addict
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Dec 1, 2015
1966 posts
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Etobicoke, ON
All the options above have at least 20%+20% pre payment, regular penalties, etc. Available through the brokers here.

Phewl81 wrote:
valuemortgage wrote: Brutal rates.... you can easily get :

2y at 2.04%
3y at 2.09%
4y at 2.29%
5y at 2.19%

5y variable at 2.05% (P-.65)

Maybe it is time to get another broker.
Hi, thanks for the quick reply. Who would offer that, and at what terms? I'm looking for 20/20, I shouldn't need to get out unless I sell, and I don't want a ridiculous IRD.
Andre Oliveira - Mortgage Agent at Valuemortgage
2018 Top 20 National - Mortgage Intelligence
FSCO # 10428

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