Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 3, 2011
2659 posts
672 upvotes
Question about HELOC. We're looking into getting a HELOC with our home but I'm unsure as to how the appraisals are done. We live in Markham and our recent MPAC assessment was around 650k, but our neighbours have been selling their homes for 900k+ the past year and a half. Would the HELOC appraisals come more in line with the MPAC assessment, with the real market values, or something in between or less?
Baaaaaaaaa!
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 13, 2011
5052 posts
1796 upvotes
Toronto
sharpshooter88 wrote: Question about HELOC. We're looking into getting a HELOC with our home but I'm unsure as to how the appraisals are done. We live in Markham and our recent MPAC assessment was around 650k, but our neighbours have been selling their homes for 900k+ the past year and a half. Would the HELOC appraisals come more in line with the MPAC assessment, with the real market values, or something in between or less?
Forget about the MPAC assessment. You can expect the actual, appraised value to come in significantly higher, particularly in the GTA.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker, Author
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 3, 2011
2659 posts
672 upvotes
PaulMeredith wrote:
sharpshooter88 wrote: Question about HELOC. We're looking into getting a HELOC with our home but I'm unsure as to how the appraisals are done. We live in Markham and our recent MPAC assessment was around 650k, but our neighbours have been selling their homes for 900k+ the past year and a half. Would the HELOC appraisals come more in line with the MPAC assessment, with the real market values, or something in between or less?
Forget about the MPAC assessment. You can expect the actual, appraised value to come in significantly higher, particularly in the GTA.
Thanks Paul, good to know. Time to shop around now.

Also, my mortgage is with a credit union. I read online that some banks don't mind taking second position to provide the HELOC, but not all banks. Is that true with big banks like TD, CIBC, etc.?
Baaaaaaaaa!
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 13, 2011
5052 posts
1796 upvotes
Toronto
sharpshooter88 wrote:
PaulMeredith wrote:
sharpshooter88 wrote: Question about HELOC. We're looking into getting a HELOC with our home but I'm unsure as to how the appraisals are done. We live in Markham and our recent MPAC assessment was around 650k, but our neighbours have been selling their homes for 900k+ the past year and a half. Would the HELOC appraisals come more in line with the MPAC assessment, with the real market values, or something in between or less?
Forget about the MPAC assessment. You can expect the actual, appraised value to come in significantly higher, particularly in the GTA.
Thanks Paul, good to know. Time to shop around now.

Also, my mortgage is with a credit union. I read online that some banks don't mind taking second position to provide the HELOC, but not all banks. Is that true with big banks like TD, CIBC, etc.?
I believe CIBC will, but you would need to confirm that with them directly. You almost might want to try Manulife as they will cover all the set up fees for you, but they charge a monthly fee of around $14.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker, Author
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
Deal Addict
Nov 15, 2006
1642 posts
392 upvotes
Hi,

I looked through the last few pages and also looked online, but here are some questions I still am not too sure about.

Let's say I'm interested in a 400K home.
1) If I put more than 15%, there is no default insurance? so if I put 80-100K, I should be fine?
2) We both have good jobs and a great credit score. Do we need to get some pre-approval before starting to shop for houses or can all that financial stuff wait until I put an offer on a house?
3) How can I check if a NBL is reliable? (like. not a big named bank vs. NBL, but how do I know it's not a bunch of swindlers with a paper company?)
4) Can the lowest posted rate be negotiated further down? (like I see 2.29 for Canwise for 5 yr fixed, is there opportunity for 2.25 maybe?)
5) Are there anything I need to ask for when getting the mortgage other than the following? amortization period, interest, prepayment plans(preferrably 20/20), penalty for breaking term early.
6) If say I negotiate a 15 year mortage with 5yrs fixed and make say 1700$ in monthly payment, at the time of renewal, I will have 10 years left, but can I renegotiate to pay say 1300$ over 15 yrs instead of 1700$ over 10yrs? (assuming same rate) I want to pay more while we don't have kids yet and then pay less when we will have more house expenses.
7a) If say in 3 years, I want to flip the house and get more mortgage to buy something bigger, is my only option to break the agreement with penalty and renegotiate for higher amount? or should I get collateral mortgage from the start?
7b) If around renewal time I flip the house and get more mortgage, can a new agreement be made for higher amount without any penalty?

Also, when I use mortgage calculators on bank sites, why do the interest portion fluctuate? shouldn't it just continue to decrease as my outstanding principal payment goes down? It's different from my excel calculation which matches the one from http://www.vertex42.com/Calculators/Can ... tgage.html

I don't think one bank is particularly wrong since all bank sites show the same numbers, but I find it weird that the interest would go from 535 to 515 back up to 530.

Thanks in advance!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Feb 3, 2011
2659 posts
672 upvotes
PaulMeredith wrote:
sharpshooter88 wrote:
PaulMeredith wrote:
Forget about the MPAC assessment. You can expect the actual, appraised value to come in significantly higher, particularly in the GTA.
Thanks Paul, good to know. Time to shop around now.

Also, my mortgage is with a credit union. I read online that some banks don't mind taking second position to provide the HELOC, but not all banks. Is that true with big banks like TD, CIBC, etc.?
I believe CIBC will, but you would need to confirm that with them directly. You almost might want to try Manulife as they will cover all the set up fees for you, but they charge a monthly fee of around $14.
Interesting. I didn't even consider Manulife, I didn't know they had a HELOC product. I'll look into it. Thanks!
Baaaaaaaaa!
Deal Addict
User avatar
Dec 1, 2015
1966 posts
918 upvotes
Etobicoke, ON
The only bank that wont go behind any lender is National Bank. Their Heloc must be either the only charge on the property or behind their own mortgage.
Andre Oliveira - Mortgage Agent at Valuemortgage
2018 Top 20 National - Mortgage Intelligence
FSCO # 10428
Deal Addict
Dec 6, 2006
4483 posts
1125 upvotes
Toronto
PaulMeredith wrote:
sharpshooter88 wrote:
PaulMeredith wrote:
Forget about the MPAC assessment. You can expect the actual, appraised value to come in significantly higher, particularly in the GTA.
Thanks Paul, good to know. Time to shop around now.

Also, my mortgage is with a credit union. I read online that some banks don't mind taking second position to provide the HELOC, but not all banks. Is that true with big banks like TD, CIBC, etc.?
I believe CIBC will, but you would need to confirm that with them directly. You almost might want to try Manulife as they will cover all the set up fees for you, but they charge a monthly fee of around $14.
valuemortgage wrote:The only bank that wont go behind any lender is National Bank. Their Heloc must be either the only charge on the property or behind their own mortgage.
Do you guys (brokers) provide access to HELOC-only products? Or is dealing with banks directly the only option?
Deal Guru
User avatar
Aug 8, 2012
10198 posts
3978 upvotes
BC
jessicacha wrote: Hi,

I looked through the last few pages and also looked online, but here are some questions I still am not too sure about.

Let's say I'm interested in a 400K home.
1) If I put more than 15%, there is no default insurance? so if I put 80-100K, I should be fine?
2) We both have good jobs and a great credit score. Do we need to get some pre-approval before starting to shop for houses or can all that financial stuff wait until I put an offer on a house?
3) How can I check if a NBL is reliable? (like. not a big named bank vs. NBL, but how do I know it's not a bunch of swindlers with a paper company?)
4) Can the lowest posted rate be negotiated further down? (like I see 2.29 for Canwise for 5 yr fixed, is there opportunity for 2.25 maybe?)
5) Are there anything I need to ask for when getting the mortgage other than the following? amortization period, interest, prepayment plans(preferrably 20/20), penalty for breaking term early.
6) If say I negotiate a 15 year mortage with 5yrs fixed and make say 1700$ in monthly payment, at the time of renewal, I will have 10 years left, but can I renegotiate to pay say 1300$ over 15 yrs instead of 1700$ over 10yrs? (assuming same rate) I want to pay more while we don't have kids yet and then pay less when we will have more house expenses.
After 5 years if you started with 15 you can NOT increase the amortization to longer than the natural 10 years remaining without doing a refinance (aka legal fees).

You can just get a 25-year to start, use a calculator to figure out what a 15-year payment would be, and pay that much extra as part of your 20% prepayment privileges ongoing monthly.
Then when you want to lower your payments you just cancel the extra payments.
7a) If say in 3 years, I want to flip the house and get more mortgage to buy something bigger, is my only option to break the agreement with penalty and renegotiate for higher amount? or should I get collateral mortgage from the start?
NO, don't get a collateral mortgage from the start! Collateral mortgages are for people who want to borrow more via a HELOC or additional mortgage on the same property. If you sell it you want to port the mortgage to the new property.
7b) If around renewal time I flip the house and get more mortgage, can a new agreement be made for higher amount without any penalty?
If you break the mortgage you will pay a penalty. If you port the mortgage you can avoid penalties, but you might not get the best rate on your additional funds since the bank knows you have to pay penalty to break otherwise :)
POLL: How frequent is your RRSP-matching?
Plastiq: Pay any bill with credit card for 0-2.5% fee (help meet min spending and keep old cards active!)
Rewards program transfer times (e.g. SPG->Aeroplan, Marriott->SPG, Amex MR->SPG...)
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 13, 2011
5052 posts
1796 upvotes
Toronto
jessicacha wrote: Hi,

I looked through the last few pages and also looked online, but here are some questions I still am not too sure about.

Let's say I'm interested in a 400K home.
1) If I put more than 15%, there is no default insurance? so if I put 80-100K, I should be fine?
20% down to avoid default insurance. Yes, $80K to $100K and there would be no mortgage default insurance.
jessicacha wrote: 2) We both have good jobs and a great credit score. Do we need to get some pre-approval before starting to shop for houses or can all that financial stuff wait until I put an offer on a house?
Never assume you qualify for a mortgage just because you have a good credit score. A good credit score is not enough to qualify you. Always speak to a mortgage broker or a bank to get preapproved before shopping. Some people assume they qualify and purchase a home before getting preapproved. Many times they are okay. But you would be surprised how many times we encounter someone in this situation where they don't.
jessicacha wrote: 3) How can I check if a NBL is reliable? (like. not a big named bank vs. NBL, but how do I know it's not a bunch of swindlers with a paper company?)
If you have any doubts, ask us here. Mortgage lending is a heavily regulated industry. Remember, they are lending YOU the money.... not the other way around. A scam company would have nothing to gain by handing $300K over to you. Just make sure you are dealing with a reputable broker and you should be fine. Always ask a lot of questions to make sure you're dealing with someone who is competent and knowledgable. They should have a long list of testimonials from satisfied customers..
jessicacha wrote: 4) Can the lowest posted rate be negotiated further down? (like I see 2.29 for Canwise for 5 yr fixed, is there opportunity for 2.25 maybe?)
Sometimes, but usually not. The brokers on RFD always post our lowest possible rate. The 5 year fixed at 2.19% we talk about on here is the lowest rate we can offer. If you ask us for 2.14%, we will not be able give it. It's too competitive for us not to put our best foot forward right from the get go. Always do your shopping however to ensure that you are in fact getting quoted the lowest rate. RFD is of course a great resource for this.
jessicacha wrote: 5) Are there anything I need to ask for when getting the mortgage other than the following? amortization period, interest, prepayment plans(preferrably 20/20), penalty for breaking term early.
Yes. Ask if it is a collateral or standard charge mortgage. Ask if there are any unique terms or restrictions that you should know about. Always ask the broker you are dealing with a lot of questions to get an idea of his/her product knowledge and experience level. Incompetence is huge in this industry unfortunately, on both the bank and the broker side. Always ask lots of questions, such as how long that person has been in business for and if they have any testimonials. Any good broker should have a long list of satisfied clients. A Google search on that broker or brokerage doesn't hurt either.
jessicacha wrote: 6) If say I negotiate a 15 year mortage with 5yrs fixed and make say 1700$ in monthly payment, at the time of renewal, I will have 10 years left, but can I renegotiate to pay say 1300$ over 15 yrs instead of 1700$ over 10yrs? (assuming same rate) I want to pay more while we don't have kids yet and then pay less when we will have more house expenses.
As already mentioned, no you can't. If you start off with a 15 year amortization and 5 years has passed, you cannot go back up to 15 years without refinancing, which would cost around $800 for legals and around $300 for an appraisal.
jessicacha wrote: 7a) If say in 3 years, I want to flip the house and get more mortgage to buy something bigger, is my only option to break the agreement with penalty and renegotiate for higher amount? or should I get collateral mortgage from the start?
You can always port your mortgage over to the new property and do a blended rate for the increase in funds needed. This would avoid the penalty.
jessicacha wrote: 7b) If around renewal time I flip the house and get more mortgage, can a new agreement be made for higher amount without any penalty?
If you are breaking your mortgage at renewal date, then there is no penalty. You can then get a new mortgage for the amount you qualify for.
jessicacha wrote: Also, when I use mortgage calculators on bank sites, why do the interest portion fluctuate? shouldn't it just continue to decrease as my outstanding principal payment goes down? It's different from my excel calculation which matches the one from http://www.vertex42.com/Calculators/Can ... tgage.html

I don't think one bank is particularly wrong since all bank sites show the same numbers, but I find it weird that the interest would go from 535 to 515 back up to 530.
The amount of money paid to interest will decrease with each and every payment. All Canadian mortgage calculators should reflect this. If you find one that doesn't, use a different calculator. The interest portion of your mortgage payment should not go up at any time during your term.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker, Author
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
Member
Mar 4, 2007
393 posts
37 upvotes
Calgary
I have a question regarding credit cards and mortgages. I have a mortgage renewal coming up next year and I do not want to re-up with the same bank(RBC) as their rates will definitely be higher than other products I can get. My dilemma is I have lately applied and been approved for 4 credit cards and my wife two more. How does this affect a mortgage application?
Deal Guru
User avatar
Aug 8, 2012
10198 posts
3978 upvotes
BC
jessicacha wrote: Also, when I use mortgage calculators on bank sites, why do the interest portion fluctuate? shouldn't it just continue to decrease as my outstanding principal payment goes down? It's different from my excel calculation which matches the one from http://www.vertex42.com/Calculators/Can ... tgage.html

I don't think one bank is particularly wrong since all bank sites show the same numbers, but I find it weird that the interest would go from 535 to 515 back up to 530.
PaulMeredith wrote: The amount of money paid to interest will decrease with each and every payment. All Canadian mortgage calculators should reflect this. If you find one that doesn't, use a different calculator. The interest portion of your mortgage payment should not go up at any time during your term.
Interest can go up from Feb with 28 days to March with 31 days, right?

Is your spreadsheet treating a month as 1/12 of a year or as 28/365ths of a year, 30/365th of a year, 31/365th of a year?
POLL: How frequent is your RRSP-matching?
Plastiq: Pay any bill with credit card for 0-2.5% fee (help meet min spending and keep old cards active!)
Rewards program transfer times (e.g. SPG->Aeroplan, Marriott->SPG, Amex MR->SPG...)
Newbie
Sep 27, 2016
2 posts
I'm starting to shop for a mortage right now and have a few questions.

1. I'm getting told by one of the brokers I'm shopping around with that I can normally get a better rate with a shorter rate hold. Is this normal industry practice?

2. I'm being quoted 2.29% rate for a 60 day hold from one broker, and a 2.34% rate for a 120 day hold from another broker. Unfortunately, my closing date is still up in the air and may be slightly beyond 120 days. My purchase is part of a multi-building strata with my building closing last, and my closing date depend on the other buildings not having any problems in the closing process. Even with this in mind, the marketer is asking me to secure a mortgage and lawyer now. Is this a good advice or is it too early for me to try to secure a rate hold?

3. unfortunately, I am looking for a smallish mortgage and don't qualify for the absolute lowest being touted around such as 2.18/2.19%. Would it make sense for me to commit to the higher 2.34% rate now for 120 days rolling forward, or should I wait until it is less than 60 days from my closing and try to get the lowest rate possible (assuming question 1 is correct)? I don't foresee rates going up in the near future, but I suppose anything can happen since the US seems to be looking to raise interest rates. Bank of Canada may follow.

Any help is appreciated.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 13, 2011
5052 posts
1796 upvotes
Toronto
Siralex wrote: I have a question regarding credit cards and mortgages. I have a mortgage renewal coming up next year and I do not want to re-up with the same bank(RBC) as their rates will definitely be higher than other products I can get. My dilemma is I have lately applied and been approved for 4 credit cards and my wife two more. How does this affect a mortgage application?
New credit can drop your score, but it's a small part of it, as are the credit checks. Providing your credit was solid before, the new credit cards shouldn't be that big of an issue. Do you carry a balance on these cards? Without knowing the full picture on income, mortgage amount and debt load, it's hard to say how you will be affected. Increased debt can of course affect the qualified amount.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker, Author
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
Deal Addict
Nov 15, 2006
1642 posts
392 upvotes
ace604 wrote: After 5 years if you started with 15 you can NOT increase the amortization to longer than the natural 10 years remaining without doing a refinance (aka legal fees).

You can just get a 25-year to start, use a calculator to figure out what a 15-year payment would be, and pay that much extra as part of your 20% prepayment privileges ongoing monthly.
Then when you want to lower your payments you just cancel the extra payments.
Thanks! I didn't know that I couldn't refinance after my term was over.
I just thought that say I borrow 300K for 15 years and pay off 75K + interest in 5 years, I would be renegotiating a new mortgage contract with 225K left.
PaulMeredith wrote: Yes. Ask if it is a collateral or standard charge mortgage. Ask if there are any unique terms or restrictions that you should know about. Always ask the broker you are dealing with a lot of questions to get an idea of his/her product knowledge and experience level. Incompetence is huge in this industry unfortunately, on both the bank and the broker side. Always ask lots of questions, such as how long that person has been in business for and if they have any testimonials. Any good broker should have a long list of satisfied clients. A Google search on that broker or brokerage doesn't hurt either.
Thanks for your detailed answers! I really appreciate it :)
ace604 wrote: Interest can go up from Feb with 28 days to March with 31 days, right?

Is your spreadsheet treating a month as 1/12 of a year or as 28/365ths of a year, 30/365th of a year, 31/365th of a year?
Yeah I think you are right! I'm in a field where we generally treat all months to be the same (i.e. not finance haha) so it didn't even occur to me that the interest would be calculated based on the number of days for mortgage! Thanks again :)

Top

Thread Information

There are currently 5 users viewing this thread. (2 members and 3 guests)

mortgagefinancingGTA, riveroaks