Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

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Feb 2, 2014
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ghasita wrote: I have a family member closing on Nov 22nd. Purchase price is 400K, making 20% DP, so seeking mortgage of 320K. Mortgage can be conventional or collateral, please let me know the options. Need to apply in next 2 days to ensure everything is finished before October 15th.
For 20% down mortgages, the new insurance rules don't take effect until Nov 30.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
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redkulat wrote: I found this mortgage affordability calculator helpful to figure out how the new stress test works:

http://www.ratehub.ca/mortgage-affordability-calculator

So basically by October 17th, to fall under the old stress test requirements, you have to have an approved mortgage? Or are they saying have an active mortgage application in the works? My closing is Jan. 26. Since the 90 day window to lock in a rate would be October 26, could I start the application before the 17th and wait for the approval to come through to "lock" in the rate for 90 days?

I found this article to be informative: http://www.moneysense.ca/spend/real-est ... borrowers/
Are you putting 20%+ down?

It's Oct 17 for less than 20% down.

Nov 30 for 20% or more down.

You just need to have an application in by then.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
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redkulat wrote: I found this mortgage affordability calculator helpful to figure out how the new stress test works:

http://www.ratehub.ca/mortgage-affordability-calculator

So basically by October 17th, to fall under the old stress test requirements, you have to have an approved mortgage? Or are they saying have an active mortgage application in the works? My closing is Jan. 26. Since the 90 day window to lock in a rate would be October 26, could I start the application before the 17th and wait for the approval to come through to "lock" in the rate for 90 days?

I found this article to be informative: http://www.moneysense.ca/spend/real-est ... borrowers/
How much are you putting down?

Less than 20% down is Oct 17.

20% or more is Nov 30.

You just need to get an app in before then.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
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That's good to know. Thanks
CdnRealEstateGuy wrote:
ghasita wrote: I have a family member closing on Nov 22nd. Purchase price is 400K, making 20% DP, so seeking mortgage of 320K. Mortgage can be conventional or collateral, please let me know the options. Need to apply in next 2 days to ensure everything is finished before October 15th.
For 20% down mortgages, the new insurance rules don't take effect until Nov 30.
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CdnRealEstateGuy wrote:
ace604 wrote:
CdnRealEstateGuy wrote:

Ummmm, ok. Why did you post this for?

I simply asked which new rule would hurt bulk insurers the most.
Ya, that was my answer. Are you saying those rules don't hurt lenders that use portfolio insurance?
Of course not. The problem I have, is that you're just looking stuff up online as you argue. You don't even understand the changes in the rules. You're not even sure if bulk insurance on million dollar homes is currently available...yet you're certain that these changes (that you're not 100% aware of) are going to cool the market?

If you don't truly understand the scope of the changes, how can you argue the impact it will have? This isn't the first time amortization periods have been shortened. Hell, there are still lenders that offer 35-year amortizations, but I honestly don't send much business to that program, because borrowers do not need it to qualify. Not too long ago, they announced 20% minimums for million dollar homes....guess what, it didn't have much effect because most were putting 20% down in that sub-market.

My initial issue, was that the changes are really aimed at protecting the CMHC (and btw, as it stands at the moment, only CMHC has announced these changes...feel free to Google it) and not at "cooling the market". And until OFSI steps in and regulates all of their lenders, I don't believe it will have big impact on houses in high demand areas. Unless the non-bulk insured mortgages follow suit, you cannot say for certain what will happen.

Now I'm pretty sure GE and CG will follow CMHC. I'm sure lenders who don't bulk insure won't follow all the changes to bulk insurers. I'm not sure if these rules will effect high demand house...but you somehow are, even though you don't quite get the changes.
Would you like a chance to fact-check yourself or do you want me to point out what you don't understand about the new rules?
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ace604 wrote:
CdnRealEstateGuy wrote:
ace604 wrote:

Ya, that was my answer. Are you saying those rules don't hurt lenders that use portfolio insurance?
Of course not. The problem I have, is that you're just looking stuff up online as you argue. You don't even understand the changes in the rules. You're not even sure if bulk insurance on million dollar homes is currently available...yet you're certain that these changes (that you're not 100% aware of) are going to cool the market?

If you don't truly understand the scope of the changes, how can you argue the impact it will have? This isn't the first time amortization periods have been shortened. Hell, there are still lenders that offer 35-year amortizations, but I honestly don't send much business to that program, because borrowers do not need it to qualify. Not too long ago, they announced 20% minimums for million dollar homes....guess what, it didn't have much effect because most were putting 20% down in that sub-market.

My initial issue, was that the changes are really aimed at protecting the CMHC (and btw, as it stands at the moment, only CMHC has announced these changes...feel free to Google it) and not at "cooling the market". And until OFSI steps in and regulates all of their lenders, I don't believe it will have big impact on houses in high demand areas. Unless the non-bulk insured mortgages follow suit, you cannot say for certain what will happen.

Now I'm pretty sure GE and CG will follow CMHC. I'm sure lenders who don't bulk insure won't follow all the changes to bulk insurers. I'm not sure if these rules will effect high demand house...but you somehow are, even though you don't quite get the changes.
Would you like a chance to fact-check yourself or do you want me to point out what you don't understand about the new rules?
I am glad that I am not the only one who sees the continued lack of knowledge displayed by the main contributors of this thread. Genworth's stock took a beating yesterday after it announced that 1/3 of first time home buyers will be kicked out of the market due to the new rules and a full 50% of its current insurance portfolio would not qualify under the new rules. This could potentially mean that upwards of half of home buyers will no longer qualify to buy a home.
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Aug 8, 2003
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I have to renew in January, can someone tell me what the best rates are today for 5 year variable and 5 yr fixed ....sorry I'm completely out of the loop on rates

thanks
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Real rates - 5y fixed at 2.19% and 5y variable P-65.
Andre Oliveira - Mortgage Agent at Valuemortgage
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While these new mortgage regulations start to take effect on October 17th, this does not necessarily mean you have until this time to submit applications. It would not surprise me at all if lenders started to cut off new applications for current regulations sooner than that. It's definitely happened before in this industry, and I can see it happening again here.

Another thing worth mentioning is that no one really knows what kind of an impact this will have at this point. Some lenders have not yet commented. Others have said that they are reviewing and will get back to us in a few days. Banks don't have to follow thees new rules, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't. No one knows for sure at this time. All we can do is wait and see.
Paul Meredith
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PaulMeredith wrote: While these new mortgage regulations start to take effect on October 17th, this does not necessarily mean you have until this time to submit applications. It would not surprise me at all if lenders started to cut off new applications for current regulations sooner than that. It's definitely happened before in this industry, and I can see it happening again here.

Another thing worth mentioning is that no one really knows what kind of an impact this will have at this point. Some lenders have not yet commented. Others have said that they are reviewing and will get back to us in a few days. Banks don't have to follow thees new rules, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't. No one knows for sure at this time. All we can do is wait and see.
How is that the case at all when the rule applies to all insured mortgages?
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The majority of monoline lenders insure all their mortgages, while banks dont always do that to low ratio mortgages. Technically speaking, lenders could still offer 30y amortization and qualify on the contract rate (as opposed to the stress test rate) those conventional deals, but in real life, monoline lenders simply cant do that as they must insure those mortgages. This could potentially create a scenario where banks could benefit from the new regulations, as a large portion of the market could now have very little competition, if indeed monoline lenders cant compete. For instance, monoline lenders could still keep operating just like they do now, but they would always have to enforce those rules (max 25y amortization, qualifying on the 4.64% rate, etc) while clients that needed/wanted 30y amortization and a lower qualifying rate could still get those mortgages with the banks, if the banks were willing to keep those loans in their books and uninsured.
As mentioned before, it is too early to see the full effect these new rules will have. At this point, it is all speculation.
Andre Oliveira - Mortgage Agent at Valuemortgage
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valuemortgage wrote: The majority of monoline lenders insure all their mortgages, while banks dont always do that to low ratio mortgages. Technically speaking, lenders could still offer 30y amortization and qualify on the contract rate (as opposed to the stress test rate) those conventional deals, but in real life, monoline lenders simply cant do that as they must insure those mortgages. This could potentially create a scenario where banks could benefit from the new regulations, as a large portion of the market could now have very little competition, if indeed monoline lenders cant compete. For instance, monoline lenders could still keep operating just like they do now, but they would always have to enforce those rules (max 25y amortization, qualifying on the 4.64% rate, etc) while clients that needed/wanted 30y amortization and a lower qualifying rate could still get those mortgages with the banks, if the banks were willing to keep those loans in their books and uninsured.
As mentioned before, it is too early to see the full effect these new rules will have. At this point, it is all speculation.
Why must monoline lenders insure the loans while banks can do either way?
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ace604 wrote:
PaulMeredith wrote: While these new mortgage regulations start to take effect on October 17th, this does not necessarily mean you have until this time to submit applications. It would not surprise me at all if lenders started to cut off new applications for current regulations sooner than that. It's definitely happened before in this industry, and I can see it happening again here.

Another thing worth mentioning is that no one really knows what kind of an impact this will have at this point. Some lenders have not yet commented. Others have said that they are reviewing and will get back to us in a few days. Banks don't have to follow thees new rules, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't. No one knows for sure at this time. All we can do is wait and see.
How is that the case at all when the rule applies to all insured mortgages?
I was referring to conventional mortgages (20% or more down payment). On high-ratio mortgages it applies to all lenders equally.
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How does all this affect renewal? An article in the papers suggest many people who borderline qualify will get stuck with their lender (as they don't have to re-qualify) and most of the time, the renewal rates are not as enticing.
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PaulMeredith wrote:
ace604 wrote:
PaulMeredith wrote: While these new mortgage regulations start to take effect on October 17th, this does not necessarily mean you have until this time to submit applications. It would not surprise me at all if lenders started to cut off new applications for current regulations sooner than that. It's definitely happened before in this industry, and I can see it happening again here.

Another thing worth mentioning is that no one really knows what kind of an impact this will have at this point. Some lenders have not yet commented. Others have said that they are reviewing and will get back to us in a few days. Banks don't have to follow thees new rules, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't. No one knows for sure at this time. All we can do is wait and see.
How is that the case at all when the rule applies to all insured mortgages?
I was referring to conventional mortgages (20% or more down payment). On high-ratio mortgages it applies to all lenders equally.
Poor choice of words? The rule applies to everyone equally and they all have to follow the rule.

Do you mean perhaps "banks can avoid the new rule by choosing to not insure a low-ratio mortgage"?

That is very different than saying that "banks don't have to follow the new rule"
POLL: How frequent is your RRSP-matching?
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