Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

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Feb 2, 2014
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boyohboy wrote:
PaulMeredith wrote:
silvermist99 wrote:

what about property over 1m, say 1.1m with $500k down?

That means the $600k mortgage cannot be insured by small lenders then? Will small lenders be able to assist in this scenario?
Under the old regulations, it didn't matter as much as long as the mortgage amount was under $1MM. As the new regulations are written, it's now the property value that cannot exceed $1MM. It looks like our only option on these higher valued properties may be the big banks since they generally don't bulk insure their their conventional mortgages.

We're still waiting to see exactly what changes are going to be made. As others have already mentioned, there has been three lenders that have suspended their rental programs until this gets figured out. There are still lots of questions to be answered, even within the industry. We'll continue to post updates as we have them.
Ok are you sure about that? If true, that's BY FAR the biggest change of the new rules. It basically eliminates the entire GTA detached housing market from the monoline lenders, no?
Let's see what happens. The bigger monoline lenders do have some products product that are not bulk insured. Don't be surprised if they start offering uninsured products for million dollar properties in certain markets to remain competitive.

Yes, this is just me speculating.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
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Hey all;

In the process of closing on my first home. The mortgage broker I've found has the following three options for a detached in BC, with 20% down on $550k purchase price. What do you guys think?
Option 1: 5yr Fixed at 2.19%

MCAP Financial - MCAP Value Flex - Limited Feature Mortgage
20% pre payment privileges and 20% increase in payments
3 month interest penalty
Bonafide Sales Clause (You can only break the mortgage if you sell the property)
Standardized charge (not collateralized)
Option 2: 5yr Fixed at 2.24%

ICICI Bank - Full feature mortgage
20% pre payment privileges and 20% increase in payments
3 month interest penalty or IRD Penalty
Standardized charge (not collateralized)
Option 3: 5yr Fixed at 2.24%

National Bank of Canada- Full feature mortgage
10% pre payment privileges and 100% increase in payments
3 month interest penalty or IRD Penalty
Collateralized charge
HELOC Available
$1200 Cash Rebate
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Aug 3, 2009
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Markham
I'm looking for a HELOC along with my mortgage renewal. Any suggestions on where to start - am I limited to the big banks only when it comes to an HELOC?
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Black Rain wrote: I'm looking for a HELOC along with my mortgage renewal. Any suggestions on where to start - am I limited to the big banks only when it comes to an HELOC?
No, you're not limited to the Big Banks.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
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Oct 9, 2014
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Vancouver, BC
HausPoor wrote: Hey all;

In the process of closing on my first home. The mortgage broker I've found has the following three options for a detached in BC, with 20% down on $550k purchase price. What do you guys think?
My view (and I'm not a broker, just a consumer) is that you should stay away from National Bank. I've had mortgages from a number of banks and non-bank lenders, and NB
are the one that stands out for lousy service and generally being a PITA. This has been confirmed for me recently by a lawyer and a mortgage broker. For all other lenders I don't see much to choose between them for service, but NB are different. From a numbers perspective, the 1200 cash back might have some appeal but you will ultimately spend that to get out of the collateral charge at the end of term, assuming that you want to (and you probably will - my experience is that their renewal rates are terrible). Other things to consider: a nightmarish IRD calculation (compared to non-bank lenders), they have very few branches in BC, lousy prepayment offer (compared to the others), everything of significance has to go through Montreal.

As for ICICI and MCAP, seems like the question is whether the 5bps difference is worth it to have the flexibility to refinance. For me, I would pay the premium for the more flexible mortgage.
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Curious to know, what are some reasons why other lenders (including banks) are not able to match MCAP's rate of 2.19%? If we are meeting the same exact "criteria" in terms of DP, income, amortization period, etc., shouldn't more lenders be willing to obtain the business by matching the rate?
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redkulat wrote: Curious to know, what are some reasons why other lenders (including banks) are not able to match MCAP's rate of 2.19%? If we are meeting the same exact "criteria" in terms of DP, income, amortization period, etc., shouldn't more lenders be willing to obtain the business by matching the rate?
Banks can't make unlimited mortgage loans, so if they make more loans at higher rates they make more profits. They also have higher overhead costs from marketing, staff, branch costs, etc.
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With these new mortgage regulations coming in, does it make sense for people who are expect to buy in the next few months to get a pre-approval right away? Or does the property / mortgage have to close before November 30?
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Jucius Maximus wrote: With these new mortgage regulations coming in, does it make sense for people who are expect to buy in the next few months to get a pre-approval right away? Or does the property / mortgage have to close before November 30?
A preapproval will not protect you from the new rules as it's fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things. A preapproval holds your rate and gives you an idea of how much you will qualify for, however it is not enough to protect you from the new rules. You would need to have an accepted offer in place.

As of October 17th, all insured mortgages will have to qualify based on a rate of 4.64%. This means, pretty much all mortgages through non-bank lenders as well as all mortgages with less than 20% down regardless of lender.

The November 30th date is when all insured mortgages will have a maximum amortization of 25 years.

At this time, those with 20% or more down payment will still be able to get in under the old regulations by big banks and credit unions since they do not have to follow these new rules. My guess is they will eventually adapt to them, but there has been no indication this will happen as of yet.

All that being said... these dates are when lenders must implement these changes by. Lenders will likely start to implement these changes prior to these dates, so just because an application is submitted to a lender in advance of these dates is no guarantee you will still get in under old regulations. At this time, old regulations are still in place with most lenders. Providing the application is submitted to a lender prior to them switching over to the new rules, your mortgage can still close as late as March 1st, 2017.

Exactly what is going to happen and how most lenders are going to react and implement these new rules still remains to be seen. Policy adjustments with these lenders can be expected. We'll post as soon as we have updates.
Paul Meredith
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PaulMeredith wrote:
Jucius Maximus wrote: With these new mortgage regulations coming in, does it make sense for people who are expect to buy in the next few months to get a pre-approval right away? Or does the property / mortgage have to close before November 30?
As of October 17th, all insured mortgages will have to qualify based on a rate of 4.64%.

[...]

At this time, those with 20% or more down payment will still be able to get in under the old regulations by big banks and credit unions since they do not have to follow these new rules.
First statement is correct and contradicts your second statement. They DO have to follow the new rules.

"They CAN avoid insuring low-ratio mortgages" is different than "not following the rules".
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ace604 wrote:
PaulMeredith wrote:
Jucius Maximus wrote: With these new mortgage regulations coming in, does it make sense for people who are expect to buy in the next few months to get a pre-approval right away? Or does the property / mortgage have to close before November 30?
As of October 17th, all insured mortgages will have to qualify based on a rate of 4.64%.

[...]

At this time, those with 20% or more down payment will still be able to get in under the old regulations by big banks and credit unions since they do not have to follow these new rules.
First statement is correct and contradicts your second statement. They DO have to follow the new rules.

"They CAN avoid insuring low-ratio mortgages" is different than "not following the rules".
I was referring to conventional, uninsured mortgages where they do not have to follow the new rules. Sorry if this wasn't clear in my post. All lenders have to follow them on high ratio mortgages, as indicated in my post.
Paul Meredith
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PaulMeredith wrote:
ace604 wrote:
PaulMeredith wrote:
As of October 17th, all insured mortgages will have to qualify based on a rate of 4.64%.

[...]

At this time, those with 20% or more down payment will still be able to get in under the old regulations by big banks and credit unions since they do not have to follow these new rules.
First statement is correct and contradicts your second statement. They DO have to follow the new rules.

"They CAN avoid insuring low-ratio mortgages" is different than "not following the rules".
I was referring to conventional, uninsured mortgages where they do not have to follow the new rules. Sorry if this wasn't clear in my post. All lenders have to follow them on high ratio mortgages, as indicated in my post.
My point is that it's grammatically and factually incorrect to say that anyone "does not have to follow the rules". Everyone has to follow the rules.

The rules apply to ALL insured mortgages whether high or low ratio.

*If* the bank doesn't insure a low-ratio mortgage, then the rule doesn't apply.

The rule not applying to a subset of mortgages is different than saying they do not have to "follow the rules".

If you want to say "they don't have to qualify you at 4.64% if they don't insure the mortgage" that is correct.

If you say "they don't have to follow the rules" that's incorrect. They ARE still "following the rules" even when they allow you to qualify at 2.x% on a 25% down conventional mortgage that they chose not to insure.
POLL: How frequent is your RRSP-matching?
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Rewards program transfer times (e.g. SPG->Aeroplan, Marriott->SPG, Amex MR->SPG...)
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Sep 25, 2016
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Got quoted for 2.19% for 2 years fixed rate but appraisal is $300?!?

Or 2.29% for 4 years...

Is this decent?
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tt1688 wrote: Got quoted for 2.19% for 2 years fixed rate but appraisal is $300?!?

Or 2.29% for 4 years...

Is this decent?
What's your mortgage amount?. 2.29% is decent for 4 year fixed, however you can get as low as 2.19% for 5 years fixed.
Paul Meredith
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Given that most lenders offer prepayment options (i.e. 20%/20%), is there any real benefit - aside from scheduling - to choosing a bi-weekly versus monthly mortgage payment schedule? The main benefit is obviously an extra yearly payment towards the principal, but most lenders end up just holding your mid-month payment until the end of the month before servicing the loan anyway. I've heard that there's sometimes fees associated with a bi-weekly payment structure as well, so I'm not sure why anyone would choose bi-weekly over monthly, when you can just add 15-20% to your monthly (or a single lump-sum) payment whenever you want, especially when you're paying a premium for a 'full-feature' mortgage. Am I missing something here?

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