Real Estate

The Official Mortgage Rates Thread

Deal Addict
Sep 19, 2012
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Calgary
ckininec wrote: Thanks for that summary, very helpful! Anyone else like to share their opinion?
What would be considered a good or bad termination penalty? I don't really have a reference point for this value.
Read a great summary here:
https://www.ratespy.com/fair-penalty-le ... s-05109252

TL;DR: if you’re worried about breaking your mortgage early: stay away from the big banks, some credit unions) and those loans from lenders that charge 2.5%-3% of the mortgage balance as a penalty.
Nikola Alaica, CPA, CA | Tax, Accounting, Mortgages
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Feb 2, 2014
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ckininec wrote: Thanks for that summary, very helpful! Anyone else like to share their opinion?
What would be considered a good or bad termination penalty? I don't really have a reference point for this value.
Basically comes down to 2 things:

1-Banks and credit unions who take in account the “discount” from the posted rate you received when calculating the IRD penalty...this makes the IRD penalty much higher vs FAIR PENALTY LENDERS (ie monoline lenders).

2-Promo products that take 2.75% or 3% of the balance for the penalty calc.

Try to take a fair penalty lender without the crazy 2.75%. or 3% penalty assuming the rates are equal.

Now, if you’re in your final home and it’s high unlikely you will break, then perhaps a higher penalty is worth paying a lower rate if available. Speaking as a broker who’s financed a ton of deals, it really is a case by case basis depending on your personal circumstance.
Last edited by CdnRealEstateGuy on Feb 27th, 2020 12:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
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Are there any brokers on this forum that are based in Vancouver?
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Arrow wrote: Are there any brokers on this forum that are based in Vancouver?
I’m based in Toronto, but currently in Richmond if you have any questions.
Kevin Somnauth, CFA
Principal Broker - First Toronto Mortgage - MA (Ontario #13176, BC #X301007)
Real Estate Salesperson - Century 21 Innovative
Newbie
Dec 4, 2011
98 posts
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Toronto
Are there any National Bank of Canada mortgage folks that support this thread? I have a question and looking for support in GTA. Please PM.
Sr. Member
Apr 20, 2011
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Scarborough
TNM offered me initially 2.54% for 5-year fixed mortgage rate. I started an application with them and now their rate has dropped to 2.44%. They are saying I cannot change my rate unless I decide to go with a different lender, which may not have the same mortgage product that TNM offered me with the 2.54% rate. They are saying when I started application I locked in the rate with the current the lender, who has hedged or made available the funds for my mortgage. Although, I have started the application, I have not signed back and send the acceptance forms agreeing to the terms, therefore is there anyway to to obtain the lower rate?
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Dec 2, 2008
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dainfamous41 wrote: TNM offered me initially 2.54% for 5-year fixed mortgage rate. I started an application with them and now their rate has dropped to 2.44%. They are saying I cannot change my rate unless I decide to go with a different lender, which may not have the same mortgage product that TNM offered me with the 2.54% rate. They are saying when I started application I locked in the rate with the current the lender, who has hedged or made available the funds for my mortgage. Although, I have started the application, I have not signed back and send the acceptance forms agreeing to the terms, therefore is there anyway to to obtain the lower rate?
Cannot speak to True North Mortgage practices specifically but this sounds plausible? Some lenders won’t allow rate float downs, and others will.

You may want to reach out to a broker on this forum to see if they can offer you something competitive and let them know who the initial lender was
Newbie
Jan 30, 2020
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Hey why is the a 5 year fixed not way lower when bond prices just collapsed unlike anything before in history?
Newbie
Feb 23, 2020
3 posts
General question for brokers on this thread - for a 5yr fixed renewal, moving to one of your lenders, what happens if rates drop say in 60 days (before the actual renewal rate) after I’ve chosen a lender? Said differently, are these rate holds we’d be securing now, or are they locked in commitments at x rate?
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Sep 13, 2011
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Wiretin wrote: Hey why is the a 5 year fixed not way lower when bond prices just collapsed unlike anything before in history?
Great question! Yes, bond yields are down significantly today. Fixed rates are heavily influenced by bond yields, but that doesn't mean that they are always 100% in synch. Even when they are, lenders will not drop rates as soon as the bond yields plummet. There may be a delay of a few days. Rates are high compared to where the bond yields are right now. Even before they plummeted today, i've mentioned a few times earlier in the week on this board that we'll likely see fixed rates drop further by the end of the week.

They yields are down 6+% today. This is not the first time they've fallen this much in one day. It is rare however.

So we should see some lower rates coming soon. :)

You can follow the bond yields yourself here.
Paul Meredith
Mortgage Broker, Author
CityCan Financial Corp (lic. 10532)
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Sep 19, 2012
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Wiretin wrote: Hey why is the a 5 year fixed not way lower when bond prices just collapsed unlike anything before in history?
Way lower than what? 5-year yield today is at 1.135%. It was at 0.5913% in June 2016. Go into the history of this thread and have a look at the rates: at that time "best rates" were around 2.19% for 5-years fixed. Right now a good rate for 5-year fixed is 2.34%. That's not much of a difference right? Sure the sell off is crazy but things have been more dire in recent memory.

EDIT: Tangerine is now offering 2.39%(!!!!) on a 3-year fixed. I can't confirm, but I'm reasonably confident that this is available for any owner-occupied property (refinance, purchase over $1M, any equity level). Anyone looking for a refinance would be well served by giving them a call and seeing what's doable! Hell, I'm super tempted to refinance with them right now (they also have a HELOC at p-0.1%) and "buy the dip".
Centaur3 wrote: General question for brokers on this thread - for a 5yr fixed renewal, moving to one of your lenders, what happens if rates drop say in 60 days (before the actual renewal rate) after I’ve chosen a lender? Said differently, are these rate holds we’d be securing now, or are they locked in commitments at x rate?
This is the "float down" issue that was discussed a few posts back. Have a look here for a thorough discussion. TL;DR: some lenders allow you to reduce the approved rate to a lower "current rate" while others don't. YMMV even with those lenders that officially don't allow a floatdown. Negotiation is key. As with everything, do your due diligence (I keep repeating this!).
Last edited by ahlaker on Feb 27th, 2020 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Nikola Alaica, CPA, CA | Tax, Accounting, Mortgages
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Centaur3 wrote: General question for brokers on this thread - for a 5yr fixed renewal, moving to one of your lenders, what happens if rates drop say in 60 days (before the actual renewal rate) after I’ve chosen a lender? Said differently, are these rate holds we’d be securing now, or are they locked in commitments at x rate?
A great question, and i'm sure there are many who have the same question. The answer can vary by lender. Sometimes even within specific products within a lender, regardless of whether it's a bank or a non-bank lender. Most lenders will allow a one time rate float down should rates drop before closing. It's not automatic, and it's something your broker will need to request. Some lenders do not allow rate float downs at all, however exceptions can sometimes be made. Just make sure you ask your broker of choice of rate float downs are available on the mortgage product that is being presented to you.
Paul Meredith
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Feb 16, 2016
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Casselman, Ontario
Wiretin wrote: Hey why is the a 5 year fixed not way lower when bond prices just collapsed unlike anything before in history?
Out of curiosity, I wonder what is the lowest rates on record and in what year it happened (has it ever dropped below 1%????). I remember my parents telling me about how in the 80's, the mortgage rates were in the late teens, early 20's. Insane!
Member
Nov 24, 2006
271 posts
100 upvotes
london
Hello,

I'm looking for a mortgage refinance:

-Roughly, what is the current market value of the property?
$620,000

-What is the current mortgage owing?
$188,000 (TD. Mortgage mature April 1, 2021)

-How much do you want to borrow (refinance)?
$188,000 (mortgage) + $100,000 (additional fund) = $288,000

-Is the property owner-occupied or a rental?
Owner occupied

-Where is the property located?
LONDON , ON

Do you have a HELOC tied to the mortgage? No

-Is the mortgage CMHC insured? No

-When do you want to close on the refinance?
June 18 2020

TD has offered me 3.01% to refinance with them. The penalty to break my current MORTGAGE early is roughly $1650. Just wondering if it would be worth while to switch lender or stay with TD once penalties are factored in?

I'm open to either a 3 or 5 yr fixed or variable depending on what's the best value available

Would you know who specifically has the best products and at what competitive rate?

Any details/fine print I should be wary of?

Thanks kindly in advance for your
assistance
Jr. Member
Dec 1, 2014
116 posts
31 upvotes
Toronto, ON
Hello..
I am looking for a mortgage renewal. Here are my details.

-How much is the mortgage owing? ~265k
-Roughly, what is the current market value of the property? ~780k
-Which city is the property located in? Toronto
-Is the property owner-occupied or a rental? Owner occupied
-Who is your current lender? Scotiabank
-Do you have a HELOC tied to the mortgage? No
-Is the mortgage CMHC insured? No
-When did you buy the property? April 1 2015
-When is your renewal date? April 1 2020

Thank You!

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