PC & Video Games

Official Xbox Series S/X Thread - November 10 Release ($379/$599)

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Niklasky wrote: That's right. The problem I have with that is that you won't benefit from sales prices on consoles and promotions on Game Pass which are likely to happen regularly during those 2 years. If you really want the console at launch, then that's fine, but if you can wait a year until the next black friday or some other sale, you'll likely pay less money after 2 years.
Exactly this - you can prepay for 3 years of ultimate right now for about $5 a month, so unless you can't afford to buy the console outright, your price ends up being more like $450 for the Series S (using round numbers like $30/mo for the subscription price)
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mymuro wrote: For current-gen games, hard drives put duplicates of data throughout the disc so that the head doesn’t have to move as far to find what it’s looking for. This workaround greatly increase the install size. With NVMe SSD by default, game size should get back to reasonable range.

In short, developers traded space for speed since HDDs are slow as hell. With NVMe SSD as minimum requirement on consoles, you dont have to sacrifice space.

Worst case, plug in an external HDD and move the games u want to play to internal SSD.
Weird, I said something similar months ago and someone branded me as a lunatic. Good to see I didn't misunderstand what I read...

Apart from smaller installs, the PS5 showcase also demonstrated how storage will be an important part of this gen. If utilized correct, loading screens could be a thing of the past, changing up gameplay to be a bit more dynamic. Look at the upcoming Ratchet and Clank footage to get an idea. Modern storage should also get rid of the need for developer's tricks such as elevator rides and sliding between narrow spaces while the game world loads up in the background.

3:05 in

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M1GOmigs wrote: Yeah, a lot of us who jumped on the XBL > GamePass $1 conversion won't see this as a deal, but there are a ton of people out there who will suddenly take notice of the cheaper Series S price, plus GP+EA news and will jump on board.
Which is why it's important that those of us who know about that deal make sure to point it out to people considering jumping on the subscription model, as a cheaper alternative if they're able to buy the console outright :)
BernardRyder wrote: Weird, I said something similar months ago and someone branded me as a lunatic. Good to see I didn't misunderstand what I read...

Apart from smaller installs, the PS5 showcase also demonstrated how storage will be an important part of this gen. If utilized correct, loading screens could be a thing of the past, changing up gameplay to be a bit more dynamic. Look at the upcoming Ratchet and Clank footage to get an idea. Modern storage should also get rid of the need for developer's tricks such as elevator rides and sliding between narrow spaces while the game world loads up in the background.
Yup, MS is really hyping up "seamless game switching" as a next gen feature which is being enabled by the faster storage found in the Series S/X.
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wearysky wrote: Exactly this - you can prepay for 3 years of ultimate right now for about $5 a month, so unless you can't afford to buy the console outright, your price ends up being more like $450 for the Series S (using round numbers like $30/mo for the subscription price)
Yeah. I mean I appreciate that it is interest free, but the monthly fee is calculated based on full console MSRP and gamepass subscription, so you're paying exactly that except it is spread out over 24 months. If you factor in sales and promotions on consoles and gamepass subs, then you are paying more. But that is the name of the game, you always pay more when you finance something. It may be easier to swallow when you spread the cost out, but once you do the math, there are no 2 ways about it, you are paying more.
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Niklasky wrote: Yeah. I mean I appreciate that it is interest free, but the monthly fee is calculated based on full console MSRP and gamepass subscription, so you're paying exactly that except it is spread out over 24 months. If you factor in sales and promotions on consoles and gamepass subs, then you are paying more. But that is the name of the game, you always pay more when you finance something. It may be easier to swallow when you spread the cost out, but once you do the math, there are no 2 ways about it, you are paying more.
Yup. If they offered a console-only 0% financing option to folks that already have an Ultimate subscription, I would jump on that in a heartbeat though.
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Niklasky wrote: Yeah. I mean I appreciate that it is interest free, but the monthly fee is calculated based on full console MSRP and gamepass subscription, so you're paying exactly that except it is spread out over 24 months. If you factor in sales and promotions on consoles and gamepass subs, then you are paying more. But that is the name of the game, you always pay more when you finance something. It may be easier to swallow when you spread the cost out, but once you do the math, there are no 2 ways about it, you are paying more.
We're all speculating here as nothing official has been released in Canada, but if you just take the USD and convert it to Canadian, the Series S All Access comes in at $6 more to finance it. The Series X would be ~$97 more. You can't really factor in sale prices as you're still paying more buying it out right on day one if it goes on sale in the future.
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orbitdesign wrote: We're all speculating here as nothing official has been released in Canada, but if you just take the USD and convert it to Canadian, the Series S All Access comes in at $6 more to finance it. The Series X would be ~$97 more. You can't really factor in sale prices as you're still paying more buying it out right on day one if it goes on sale in the future.
I agree. But I guess my point is that if you can't afford to buy it outright, maybe wait for a sale instead of financing it. Financing and credit aren't for people who can't afford stuff, they are for people who can afford it but choose to invest their money into more meaningful things.
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Niklasky wrote: I agree. But I guess my point is that if you can't afford to buy it outright, maybe wait for a sale instead of financing it. Financing and credit aren't for people who can't afford stuff, they are for people who can afford it but choose to invest their money into more meaningful things.
True, but the way I'm looking at it... For the Series S, it's possibly an interest-free loan. If it's a direct conversion, they're charging me 25 cents a month for 24 months... I'd much rather just go that route and get game pass.... but, as I'm typing this... the RFD'er in me wants to buy it outright and then look for a deal on game pass... I guess what I'm getting at is that, if you're not someone who hunts for deals and will put in the time, getting the S through All Access is an absolute bargain for the casual gamer and I think Microsoft is really pushing this in the right direction with this console and with it's pricing.
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Niklasky wrote: I agree. But I guess my point is that if you can't afford to buy it outright, maybe wait for a sale instead of financing it. Financing and credit aren't for people who can't afford stuff, they are for people who can afford it but choose to invest their money into more meaningful things.
In an ideal world, which is not how most people see finance and credit, or the way it is generally advertised to the masses. Hence why so many people go in over their heads financially, like the housing crash a decade ago.
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orbitdesign wrote: We're all speculating here as nothing official has been released in Canada, but if you just take the USD and convert it to Canadian, the Series S All Access comes in at $6 more to finance it. The Series X would be ~$97 more. You can't really factor in sale prices as you're still paying more buying it out right on day one if it goes on sale in the future.
You can, however, factor in *current* sale prices - you can get ultimate for like $5/month if you prepay for 3 years (works out to a few cents more per month if you only do 2 years). So that works out to a fairly significant difference in the overall price paid if you pre-pay for your Ultimate, and buy the console outright at full price.
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orbitdesign wrote: True, but the way I'm looking at it... For the Series S, it's possibly an interest-free loan. If it's a direct conversion, they're charging me 25 cents a month for 24 months... I'd much rather just go that route and get game pass.... but, as I'm typing this... the RFD'er in me wants to buy it outright and then look for a deal on game pass... I guess what I'm getting at is that, if you're not someone who hunts for deals and will put in the time, getting the S through All Access is an absolute bargain for the casual gamer and I think Microsoft is really pushing this in the right direction with this console and with it's pricing.
I agree with you, I think Microsoft is going in the right direction by turning its gaming platform into a service. You pay every month to get a console and gamepass where games available will rotate periodically like Netflix. Great for the casual gamer, not so much for the hard core gamer, and even worse for the RFDer type of guy who hunts for deals and won't hesitate to wait for a sale before buying the console or subscribing to their Gamepass service.

I wonder though, will they adjust the monthly payment every time the console price is adjusted, or when it goes on sale ? If you're the kind of guy who does the math every time they buy something, you could find that subscribing to their monthly plan isn't worth it any time the price is reduced, even if it's only for a one day or one week sale like Black Friday.
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Niklasky wrote: I agree with you, I think Microsoft is going in the right direction by turning its gaming platform into a service. You pay every month to get a console and gamepass where games available will rotate periodically like Netflix. Great for the casual gamer, not so much for the hard core gamer, and even worse for the RFDer type of guy who hunts for deals and won't hesitate to wait for a sale before buying the console or subscribing to their Gamepass service.

I wonder though, will they adjust the monthly payment every time the console price is adjusted, or when it goes on sale ? If you're the kind of guy who does the math every time they buy something, you could find that subscribing to their monthly plan isn't worth it any time the price is reduced, even if it's only for a one day or one week sale like Black Friday.
MS's pivot seems to be working for casual gaming, but I think they'll have enough there for hardcore gamers as well. It may not have the exclusive library of Sony, but they've made strides to acquire studios, and if adoption rate of Xbox and GamePass increases, hopefully that's enough justification for them to continue improving on their first party products. When it comes to single player campaigns, Sony is hard to beat, but I actually think Xbox has the more compelling multiplayer offering (barring Fall Guys I guess).

I doubt they adjust payment plan over time though... and TBH someone willing to go on a payment plan isn't necessarily looking at this as a sliding scale type of deal. It's not like our phone plans or car finances change month-to-month as the MSRP of these products change, so the same should be the case with a financed console.
Last edited by M1GOmigs on Sep 9th, 2020 5:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Niklasky wrote: Great for the casual gamer, not so much for the hard core gamer, and even worse for the RFDer type of guy who hunts for deals and won't hesitate to wait for a sale before buying the console or subscribing to their Gamepass service.
This value of Game Pass isn't only appealing to casual gamers. I consider myself a hardcore gamer playing primarily on PC and consoles occasionally and 90% of my gaming is done through Game Pass at this point. The value and quality of the library has reached a point where I no longer have any desire to spend $30-40 nevermind $90 on a single video game while I can access a whole library of recent and brand new games for so cheap. I've only bought a handful of niche Steam games for $10-20 over the past year and am planning to buy CP2077 at launch but otherwise it's been all Game Pass for me for a long time now.
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M1GOmigs wrote: Exactly. MS's pivot seems to be working for casual gaming, but I think they'll have enough there for hardcore gamers as well. It may not have the exclusive library of Sony, but they've made strides to acquire studios, and if adoption rate of Xbox and GamePass increases, hopefully that's enough justification for them to continue improving on their first party products.

I doubt they adjust payment plan over time though... and TBH someone willing to go on a payment plan isn't necessarily looking at this as a sliding scale type of deal. It's not like our phone plans or car finances change month-to-month as the MSRP of these products change, so the same should be the case with a financed console.
Well for a car, your monthly payments, lease or loan, are based on the price you negotiated at the time of purchase and stay the same for the duration of the term, but those payments are calculated based on the price you negotiated, including discounts, incentives and everything. You don't pay a fixed monthly payment based on MSRP.

So for the Xbox, I can see this strategy working for the first couple of years, as long as the console price stays relatively stable, but as soon as the first price drop happens, they'll have to make adjustments or people just won't go for it.
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ReeGee wrote: This value of Game Pass isn't only appealing to casual gamers. I consider myself a hardcore gamer playing primarily on PC and consoles occasionally and 90% of my gaming is done through Game Pass at this point. The value and quality of the library has reached a point where I no longer have any desire to spend $30-40 nevermind $90 on a single video game while I can access a whole library of recent and brand new games for so cheap. I've only bought a handful of niche Steam games for $10-20 over the past year and am planning to buy CP2077 at launch but otherwise it's been all Game Pass for me for a long time now.
I somewhat agree, but the issue I have with Gamepass is the rotating library. I mean look at popular games like GTAV and RDR2 for example. They were on Gamepass for just a few months. Can you finish those games during that period of time, sure, but I like to take my time, I play several games at the same time and quite often it takes me more than 3 months to complete a game fully. I've finished games in a week, sure, like Uncharted 4 for example, I was so into it I completed it in one shot, but I like to go back to it periodically and redo some missions, or try different difficulty levels, etc.

The whole "temporary availability" is what holds me back right now.

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