Shopping Discussion

Ontario alcohol delivery law changes

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 24th, 2020 12:57 pm
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Sep 16, 2013
6953 posts
4686 upvotes
SW ON

Ontario alcohol delivery law changes

A week or two ago I read in the news that Ontario amended the law regarding alcohol delivery. Something about signature on delivery was mentioned but it was vague. Does anyone know if anything has really changed? As I remember the problem was that couriers would leave a note for pickup because they can't interact with customers. This required a trip to a post office which is equivalent to a trip to LCBO or maybe worse. This negated the convenience of delivery. I wonder if anything improved.
10 replies
Deal Addict
Apr 26, 2013
3935 posts
3792 upvotes
Toronto
I cannot say for sure but I do not see the law changing in a way where they can just leave alcohol behind without somehow verifying the age of the receiver, or at the very least leaving it in the hands of someone that can legally consume alcohol.

I've interacted with Canada Post, UPS, and Purolator after the covid outbreak, the only thing they were not doing was collecting signatures.
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
22883 posts
21729 upvotes
Eastern Ontario
alpovs wrote: I found the changes: https://www.agco.ca/bulletin/2020/infor ... r-delivery

The relevant one: "Obtaining a receipt signed by the customer at the time of delivery is no longer required. This is a permanent change."

Any ideas how it works now? Any new experiences?
We looked into Booze Delivery during the height of Covid
(There are private Cos that do this)

We looked because LCBO / Beer Store wasn’t offering curbside pick up
(Some locations now are)

And there were some issues regarding Canada Post delivery from Ontario Breweries & Wineries at the time
Where ... signature was required
So item was forwarded to the nearest Postal Outlet (ala SDM style)
And the Postie would just drop a card at your door / mailbox saying where to get the parcel

Back then ... in the very beginning ... signature was required
Which SUCKED
Esp so if the whole idea was for the Customer, like is to STAY OUT OF PLACES
And JUST DO CONTACT FREE / Curbside

Over the course of the 4 months things changed

The AGCO (Alcohol & Gaming Commission of Ontario) modified their rules “temporarily” so that Deliveries could at least happen contact free
Be they via Private Delivery Cos, or with the likes of the Breweries & Wineries

All that then was required, was an adult answered the door
And presented ID (works nicely if you have a glassed storm door)
And the delivery guy sees ID, and approves it
(Think some places were photographing it to prove they saw it ... but don’t know if that’s the norm )

Anyhow ... no more signing

Lol, about the same time the AGCO also approved Restaurants to deliver booze with food delivery
So you could actually order beer or wine to go with that pasta dinner from East Side Mario’s

Of course all these changes were supposed to be temporary during Covid

But clearly things went well, and the public likes them
So now they get to stay

ONE MORE GOOD THING TO COME OUT OF COVID

* NOTE - Post Office... they still cannot knock & drop for booze or pot
So although there’s no signature required ... most stuff still ends up at the Postal Outlet
As a result, any online booze orders now, we will use Flex Delivery
At least then we can pick which Postal Outlet spot we want to go to
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Sep 16, 2013
6953 posts
4686 upvotes
SW ON
PointsHubby wrote: * NOTE - Post Office... they still cannot knock & drop for booze or pot
So although there’s no signature required ... most stuff still ends up at the Postal Outlet
As a result, any online booze orders now, we will use Flex Delivery
At least then we can pick which Postal Outlet spot we want to go to
How old is this information? The changes were made a week ago.

I don't see how going to the post office is different from going to LCBO. I heard LCBOs are less crowded than post offices at certain times.
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
22883 posts
21729 upvotes
Eastern Ontario
alpovs wrote: How old is this information? The changes were made a week ago.

I don't see how going to the post office is different from going to LCBO. I heard LCBOs are less crowded than post offices at certain times.
REREAD my original reply
There are 2 elements in play here

The AGCO Changes were made recently.
They apply to all forms of delivery ... signature no longer required

The Post Office Changes regarding knock & drop were made early on in the pandemic

So ... If you order online & your delivery is via the Post Office
You are still subject to Canada Post Rules
Cannot do knock & drop for Booze or Pot
But if you are home ... they no longer require a signature

If you aren’t home ... your stuff still ends up at a Postal Outlet
Where you will be asked to present ID
And may or may not have to sign for the parcel

As to Post Office vs LCBO ...

LCBO now offers curbside pick up
But they did not back in March, April & May

Back then your choices were pretty much GOING INTO the LCBO or the Post Office
Poor scenarios for any one at risk

Now with everything open
And pandemic numbers relatively low
It truly doesn’t matter which one you choose to go into
UNLESS... of course you are high risk
In which case it comes down to LCBO Curbside pick up
Or using a private delivery service to your front door

Still better than going to a Post Office for many people
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Sep 16, 2013
6953 posts
4686 upvotes
SW ON
PointsHubby wrote: REREAD my original reply
There are 2 elements in play here

The AGCO Changes were made recently.
They apply to all forms of delivery ... signature no longer required


The Post Office Changes regarding knock & drop were made early on in the pandemic

So ... If you order online & your delivery is via the Post Office
You are still subject to Canada Post Rules
Cannot do knock & drop for Booze or Pot
But if you are home ... they no longer require a signature

If you aren’t home ... your stuff still ends up at a Postal Outlet
Where you will be asked to present ID
And may or may not have to sign for the parcel
Exactly my point. Changes are very recent. Unless you work for Canada Post or had recent experience how do you know? At my place Canada Post dropped off all packages on front porch (or stuck them in mailbox if they fit) even with signature required. This wouldn't have worked with alcohol until this week. Since the rules changed it should work now. It seems you just assumed that it wouldn't. Do you have personal experience that they wouldn't just drop off packages? Couriers may not drop off packages if they feel it's not safe to do so even if signature is not required.
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
22883 posts
21729 upvotes
Eastern Ontario
alpovs wrote: Exactly my point. Changes are very recent. Unless you work for Canada Post or had recent experience how do you know? At my place Canada Post dropped off all packages on front porch (or stuck them in mailbox if they fit) even with signature required. This wouldn't have worked with alcohol until this week. Since the rules changed it should work now. It seems you just assumed that it wouldn't. Do you have personal experience that they wouldn't just drop off packages? Couriers may not drop off packages if they feel it's not safe to do so even if signature is not required.
Still not getting it

AGCO oversees liquor distribution rules in the Province of Ontario
BUT ... Although Canada Post falls under that ... they also have their own FEDERAL RULES based on Controlled Goods

The change that came last week applies more to NON CANADA POST deliveries than it does for Canada Post

Did you even read the document you linked to from AGCO ?
July 15, 2020

The Government of Ontario has made changes to the province’s liquor laws to give consumers more options for delivery services when purchasing alcohol from retail stores.

Effective today, the government has removed the provision in Regulation 718 under the Liquor Licence Act (LLA) that prohibits liquor delivery service licensees from using contractors in the delivery of liquor. This permanent change will enable greater participation in the liquor delivery market from existing delivery companies and rapid delivery businesses with large customer bases. It will also provide increased convenience and choice for consumers, particularly as individuals are encouraged to continue physical distancing.

The holder of the liquor delivery service licence remains accountable for ensuring delivery contractors comply with all requirements of the regulation, including the responsible sale and service of alcohol. Individuals involved in the delivery of alcohol must be Smart Serve certified before they can deliver.

Applications for a liquor delivery service licence can be completed through iAGCO, the AGCO’s online portal.

Several additional changes that impact liquor delivery service licensees are noted below:

** Liquor delivery services are now permitted to enter into agreements with manufacturers who have retail stores or The Beer Store to facilitate the purchase and delivery of liquor on behalf of a customer. These agreements may include, for example, the listing of products on the liquor delivery service’s website or app. Where a liquor delivery service chooses to enter into such agreements, the agreement:

* Cannot restrict a liquor delivery service or manufacturer from entering into further agreements.

* Only applies to the purchase and delivery of liquor before July 1, 2021.

** Obtaining a receipt signed by the customer at the time of delivery is no longer required. This is a permanent change.

** Delivery to any private place is now permitted. Generally, the regulation defines private place as an indoor place to which the public is not ordinarily invited or permitted access. Previously, delivery could only be to a residential address. This is a permanent change.

The AGCO remains committed to protecting public safety and ensuring that alcohol is sold, served and consumed in a responsible manner. Liquor Delivery Service licensees must continue to meet all existing requirements in the LLA and regulations.

Links to electronic versions of the LLA and its regulations are available on our Acts and Regulations page.
So it applies MORE TO bars & restaurants ... than it does to the average Joe.

But the rules for liquor delivery to average joes are similar ... EXCEPT FOR CANADA POST.

If you want to know more about Canada Post’s mandate regarding controlled substances ... you’ll find it on the Canada Post website
Under NON-MAILABLE MATERIAL
Section 5.3 Intoxicating Beverages
https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manu ... sp#1378246

So there’s not a great change here
For the average Joe
That’s what I’ve been trying to say
This is just a permanent solidification of some of the aspects that came to be since Covid

Canada Post is gonna pretty much treat Booze & Pot EXACTLY LIKE they have up to now
No drop & knock
On controlled substances
[OP]
Deal Fanatic
Sep 16, 2013
6953 posts
4686 upvotes
SW ON
PointsHubby wrote: Still not getting it
Why do you keep asking if I read my links and your posts? If I hadn't read them why would I post them or reply to you? LOL!

I am still not getting why Canada Post has to abide by federal regulations but others don't. Is it what you mean? If there are no changes for the average Joe whom are those changes for? Bulk truck deliveries supplier to store?

I guess the bottom line is I wanted to know if after those changes there is any way to get alcohol deliveries dropped off at the door. One of the changes is that signature is not required anymore.
Deal Addict
Apr 26, 2013
3935 posts
3792 upvotes
Toronto
alpovs wrote: Why do you keep asking if I read my links and your posts? If I hadn't read them why would I post them or reply to you? LOL!

I am still not getting why Canada Post has to abide by federal regulations but others don't. Is it what you mean? If there are no changes for the average Joe whom are those changes for? Bulk truck deliveries supplier to store?

I guess the bottom line is I wanted to know if after those changes there is any way to get alcohol deliveries dropped off at the door. One of the changes is that signature is not required anymore.
Are you saying private couriers are leaving alcoholic beverages without checking that there is someone of legal drinking age at the address? Even food delivery app drivers have to be smart serve trained and the restaurant or bar risk losing their licence if they sold to anyone under 19 or someone who is intoxicated.

No one is going to take the risk of delivering alcohol to minors or intoxicated people unless it's one of those shady after hour delivery companies.

I had an alcohol delivery this past week, I had to be there and show my ID to the delivery driver to verify I was the person who put in the order and that I was of legal drinking age.
Deal Expert
Feb 7, 2017
22883 posts
21729 upvotes
Eastern Ontario
alpovs wrote: Why do you keep asking if I read my links and your posts? If I hadn't read them why would I post them or reply to you? LOL!

I am still not getting why Canada Post has to abide by federal regulations but others don't. Is it what you mean? If there are no changes for the average Joe whom are those changes for? Bulk truck deliveries supplier to store?

I guess the bottom line is I wanted to know if after those changes there is any way to get alcohol deliveries dropped off at the door. One of the changes is that signature is not required anymore.
I guess I keep asking cuz you are indeed are not GETTING IT ... you even admit it

I’ve tried to explain it to you

And I have even referred you back to the announcement
These changes mostly impact Bars & Restaurants ... even BOLDING the important bits

Read the reply by @WMPCOT ... cuz he gets it

As to WHY Canada Post is different.
Delivery Cos are under Provincial jurisdiction
The Post is under federal jurisdiction
(Just like Canada Customs is under the feds ... the Average joe cannot import alcohol easily by mail either )

Alcohol is a controlled substance
When it comes to purchase & distribution
(Until recently ... even difficult to import across Provincial borders )

That’s it, that’s all

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