Ontario Doodle Breeder Search

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Jun 6th, 2020 1:02 pm

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May 5th, 2020 4:36 pm

weirdlogic [OP]: Jr. Member; May 24, 2012; 159 posts; 27 upvotes; Toronto

May 5th, 2020 4:36 pm

Ontario Doodle Breeder Search

Hi everyone!

We are currently looking for a doodle to welcome into our family (Goldendoodle, Sheepadoodle or Bernedoodle). We have wanted a doodle dog for 8 years now but it is currently a rather competitive landscape for getting a puppy (due to Covid-19).
We've sent over 35 emails to various Ontario breeders found on Google.

Any other strategies to find breeders of doodles?

With appreciation,

8 replies

May 6th, 2020 4:28 pm

Pipingpiper: Newbie; Nov 27, 2015; 4 posts; 5 upvotes; Brandon, MB

May 6th, 2020 4:28 pm

Hi there weirdlogic,

I'm going to suggest that you reevaluate the current doodle fad. Why not look at an Old English Sheepdog, Poodle, Portuguese Water Dog, Puli, Black Russian Terrier, Bouvier or other similar dogs? All the ones I list are hypoallergenic, low dander, don't shed, etc, and are basically what the Doodle is trying to be. Sheepadoodles are no easier to maintain that Old English Sheepsdogs, I give mine a haircut every 3-4 months as the long coat requries more work with daily brushing.

Here's my reasoning:
1- Cost. I don't know why, but Doodle breeders seem to be charging more than pure bred breeders. In my circle (Old English Sheepdogs), we aggressively do not sell to anyone who is trying to breed Doodles. I've heard $3-5k and horrendous breeding contracts. One lady I met said her Doodle was "worth" $20k, but her breeder gave her a discount of $16k if she agreed to produce 4 or more puppies.
2- Health. A common misconception is that doodles are healthier or are fixing issues with both breeds. This is not true! Reputable breeders do genetic testing before having litters and have very minimal health issues. For example, my most recent OES puppy came with a 7 year health guarantee. One of my best friends has a golden doodle with a myriad of health problems. He's 3, and got the worst issues from both breeds. He will be lucky to live to 5 and has cost her thousands in vet bills. Her "breeder" has cut all contact with her and offers no support. My Breeder sends us a birthday card every year, and has recommended trainers, vets, kennels, in 3 different provinces to me each time I move for work.
3- Temperament. Going with a reputable breeder will drastically reduce your headache with training. My Bouviers and OES all have very similar temperaments and are "velcro dogs". Doodles I've met and seen in the ring have a wide variety of temperaments, some take after poodles, some labs, goldens, whatever the other parent was. Some have been quite mouthy and snappy, I would not trust these particular dogs with small children. Others have been great, but it seems to be a luck of the draw.
4- Look up some recent interviews, letters, or articles by the creator of Doodles, Wally Conron. He deeply regrets his mistake. Seriously, google "creator of doodles" or "Wally Conron" for yourself.
5- The Canadian Kennel Club has a good list of reputable breeders in good standing, check it out. Doodle breeders are not on the list and have noone watching over them. Maybe in 10-30 years several Doodle like breeds will get recognized, but that will be after much more work and breeding of doodles together to get a repeatable standard for looks, health, and temperament.

Edit: fixed a few words. Spelling is hard.

+5

May 6th, 2020 8:22 pm

spham: Deal Addict; Apr 23, 2007; 4834 posts; 1008 upvotes; London

May 6th, 2020 8:22 pm

I’m not sure when you’re looking to get your puppy, but now is such a tough time to secure one because everyone is looking for a puppy all of a sudden. I was looking at the same breeds (Goldendoodle, Labradoodle, Bernedoodle) before the craziness started and I had such a difficult time communicating with the breeders in Ontario. Now it’s probably impossible. I did manage to find a reputable breeder who didn’t show up in any of my initial searches and managed to reserve a Goldendoodle that I am picking up in a couple of weeks. From what I heard, since the beginning of April, she has been getting flooded with emails daily and her waitlist now extends all the way to next year.

I don’t think there’s any specific strategy. The breeders are probably overwhelmed right now by the influx of people looking for a Pandemic Puppy and can’t communicate with everyone and I know some have put their future litters on hold due to COVID-19. Just keep sending those emails and hope for the best I guess. Also, don’t just send one-line emails and put some effort into your emails and tell them about yourself and why you’re interested in that specific breed and their puppies in particular.

May 7th, 2020 12:01 am

kittypink: Sr. Member; Jul 4, 2009; 950 posts; 108 upvotes; Mississauga area

May 7th, 2020 12:01 am

I totally agree with Pipingpiper.

If you want a doodle because they don't shed, that really is a misconception. Because it's mixed, there's no guarantee that you will have the non-shedding poodle coat. And the worst part is that you might get a dog that has impossible fur. I've been to many groomers, and the complaints I hear the most are about oodle coats. You get the fur of whatever the mix is plus the poodle coat and now you have a dog that has high maintenance hair AND shedding.

Standard poodles are awesome dogs, and I bet when you see one that is not in the frou-frou cut you wouldn't even know its a poodle. Or Giant Schnauzers - large, stocky dog that doesn't shed.

Good luck with your search!

+3

May 22nd, 2020 11:00 pm

redsfan: Deal Addict; Nov 16, 2008; 2043 posts; 325 upvotes

May 22nd, 2020 11:00 pm

If looking at a PWD, do your research as they are more over bread now than they were pre Obama days. They are incredible dogs, but don't come cheap. They are little terrors though, and need constant exercise so keep that in mind as well. Yes I know, we had 2 of them.

Jun 3rd, 2020 9:04 am

09Bentley: Newbie; Nov 13, 2014; 9 posts; 2 upvotes; Richmond Hill, ON

Jun 3rd, 2020 9:04 am

Hi PipingPiper!
Could you let me know the name of your oes breeder? They sound wonderful! While we’re not ready for another puppy yet and won’t be for a few years, I find best to start researching long before you want a puppy. Quality breeders are super important! I’ve been looking into an OES for years and love everything about them!

To OP, my neighbour urgently wanted a doodle because others in the area had well behaved doodles, cute and fluffly. They rushed the process and ended up with a kijiji find....the dog’s temperament is not stable with people or other dogs, it’s got an amazing amount of health problems (allergies/joint problems) and the dog is only 2 (I have a cavalier and a boxer so I know health concerns and this dog is already about both of my dogs combined). They have spent a lot of money in training the dog as it’s bitten two people and attack several dogs. Ended up at a rehab with a guy that mostly works with billy breeds in rehab. The dog has become a bit more stable but because it’s a doodle, it’s gets brushed over (much like the aggressive retriever etc). However, I wouldn’t trust it with my dogs nor my kids.

I do think there are some good breeders out there but I wonder where they are getting their stock since most purebred breeders are against the breeding. I wonder where these dogs are sourced from and if they have the proper temperament and genetics to pass down.

I love spaniels and my favourite is the cavalier. I have often thought if time and money were of no object, I’d breed cavaliers with other breeds; develop my own breed that weeds out the bad genetics of health problems that face the cavalier and yet still keep their amazing personality. However, I also know this isn’t on my horizon and there are many many considerations. I fear too many doodle breeders are just acquiring a poodle and other breed without truly looking at improving the parents by the match.

+1

Jun 3rd, 2020 11:11 am

SkynyrdsInyrds: Sr. Member; Jul 31, 2017; 600 posts; 240 upvotes

Jun 3rd, 2020 11:11 am

Anyone looking to get one of thse Doodles should look up the comments from the guy in Australia who first created them - he now wishes he had never done so!

Jun 3rd, 2020 1:57 pm

VertigoM: Deal Addict; Aug 18, 2009; 1419 posts; 764 upvotes; Toronto

Jun 3rd, 2020 1:57 pm

Pipingpiper wrote: ↑ Hi there weirdlogic,

I'm going to suggest that you reevaluate the current doodle fad. Why not look at an Old English Sheepdog, Poodle, Portuguese Water Dog, Puli, Black Russian Terrier, Bouvier or other similar dogs? All the ones I list are hypoallergenic, low dander, don't shed, etc, and are basically what the Doodle is trying to be. Sheepadoodles are no easier to maintain that Old English Sheepsdogs, I give mine a haircut every 3-4 months as the long coat requries more work with daily brushing.

Here's my reasoning:
1- Cost. I don't know why, but Doodle breeders seem to be charging more than pure bred breeders. In my circle (Old English Sheepdogs), we aggressively do not sell to anyone who is trying to breed Doodles. I've heard $3-5k and horrendous breeding contracts. One lady I met said her Doodle was "worth" $20k, but her breeder gave her a discount of $16k if she agreed to produce 4 or more puppies.
2- Health. A common misconception is that doodles are healthier or are fixing issues with both breeds. This is not true! Reputable breeders do genetic testing before having litters and have very minimal health issues. For example, my most recent OES puppy came with a 7 year health guarantee. One of my best friends has a golden doodle with a myriad of health problems. He's 3, and got the worst issues from both breeds. He will be lucky to live to 5 and has cost her thousands in vet bills. Her "breeder" has cut all contact with her and offers no support. My Breeder sends us a birthday card every year, and has recommended trainers, vets, kennels, in 3 different provinces to me each time I move for work.
3- Temperament. Going with a reputable breeder will drastically reduce your headache with training. My Bouviers and OES all have very similar temperaments and are "velcro dogs". Doodles I've met and seen in the ring have a wide variety of temperaments, some take after poodles, some labs, goldens, whatever the other parent was. Some have been quite mouthy and snappy, I would not trust these particular dogs with small children. Others have been great, but it seems to be a luck of the draw.
4- Look up some recent interviews, letters, or articles by the creator of Doodles, Wally Conron. He deeply regrets his mistake. Seriously, google "creator of doodles" or "Wally Conron" for yourself.
5- The Canadian Kennel Club has a good list of reputable breeders in good standing, check it out. Doodle breeders are not on the list and have noone watching over them. Maybe in 10-30 years several Doodle like breeds will get recognized, but that will be after much more work and breeding of doodles together to get a repeatable standard for looks, health, and temperament.

Edit: fixed a few words. Spelling is hard.

I'm going to disagree here. Most of the "issues" you raise are breeder related and not linked specifically to doodles. There are PLENTY of unethical breeders out there that create health and temperament issues within all types of dogs, purebred or otherwise. You point out your one friend who has health issues with their doodle. I can give examples of several of my friends who have purebreds with a myriad of health issues as well. Temperament is the luck of the draw with ANY dog breed. And let's be honest here, the CKC does basically nothing from the perspective of "overseeing" breeders.

As for the cost issue, if someone can afford it then why not? The price of doodles are simply driven by supply and demand. Basic economics.

+1

Jun 6th, 2020 1:02 pm

Pipingpiper: Newbie; Nov 27, 2015; 4 posts; 5 upvotes; Brandon, MB

Jun 6th, 2020 1:02 pm

Fair enough, your point that it's down to the breeder is 100% valid. I personally prefer to vet my breeder and find using the CKC, friends who show and train dogs, etc for references is using an established system of quality control. It's pointed me to several great pure bred breeders. There are some terrible pure bred breeders out there too who I was told to avoid at all costs, who didn't do shows, who had CKC complaints, etc.

I'm sure designer dogs have their own circles and some folks doing ethical breeding, I see a few kennels working on breeding F2 and F3 doodles which is promising. I just don't know how to easily vet them, they don't go to the same shows or competitions I do and have very different aims and standards.

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