Ontario: Trying To Sell: Tenant Making Showing Difficult

1. Use button camera or hidden GoPro to secretly take pictures.

2. Bring a cat with you. Big dog will chase cat and stay out of your way, allowing you to do your showing while tenant is away.

3. Do showings while tenant is away.

crazycoder wrote: ↑ I own a detached rental in York Region - current tenant is making showings difficult:
1. Not allowing me to take pictures
2. Notifying me that big dog that lives there can potentially bite if any entry while they are not there
3. If any showings occur they will follow and hover over anyone that comes in.

What can I do, please give me some ideas. I want to sell at this peak, no way prices remain this high in a year, these tenants are difficult.

That you don't know.

However I can tell you that selling with a difficult tenant will cost you alot, you are better off paying them to move out and selling vacant.

senasena wrote: ↑ That you don't know.

However I can tell you that selling with a difficult tenant will cost you alot, you are better off paying them to move out and selling vacant.

Thanks, you confirmed my worst, these tenants are real savvy, I think they will ask for 10k or something to move out. They moved in a dog a year later even though I had a no pets clause, but they cited its a null and void clause, I also have to do lawn care and snow clearing services as they siad that is null and void as well. I just want them out now so I can cash in.

I really dont want to miss this opportunity to get out and get my roughly 500k cap gains out of this place and be relieved of the headache. I work in risk, and I really don't think prices will remain this high, also my firm believes the same. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush as they say.

hunnni83 wrote: ↑ Give them a 60 days notice to move out then.


Market in York Region will still be hot.

Can't do that, I'm not moving in nor moving my family in, and I don't have a signed sale agreement. Tenants that know their rights are the worst.

crazycoder wrote: ↑ Thanks, you confirmed my worst, these tenants are real savvy, I think they will ask for 10k or something to move out.

If they ask for $10K you should count your blessings.

You will be able to sell your home vacant so the buyer won't have to worry about vacant possession, even if the vacant possession is in the contract some buyers don't want to deal with it even when it will be on the seller if anything goes wrong (your cost).
Nobody, even investors, wants to buy a house with difficult tenant, and that can easily be discovered while showing the house.

With vacant home you will be able to properly clean it, stage it, present it in the best possible light, professional photography, showing available to potential buyers all day long when the house is clean, smells nice, no barking dogs or tenants breathing down the buyers neck.

Unless the payout is outrageous you will make it up in spades when selling vacant and preparing the house properly.

10k is a steal if you can do that.

Your home is going to get a lot more value if its vacant.

crazycoder wrote: ↑ Can't do that, I'm not moving in nor moving my family in, and I don't have a signed sale agreement. Tenants that know their rights are the worst.

I am a home owner, no rentals but get the F over yourself! Someone knowing their rights are the worst? How about the government that put the rules in place.

crazycoder wrote: ↑ Can't do that, I'm not moving in nor moving my family in, and I don't have a signed sale agreement. Tenants that know their rights are the worst.

LOL

Tenants that know their rights are the worst, eh? Perhaps the problem is the rights that have been granted, instead? Of course, the fact that you stuck in illegal clauses wasn't an issue for you, but heaven forbid they call you on that. That makes THEM the bad tenant...

And you want to cash in on your 500K gain, but are whining about having to pay out 10K to maximize that? Seems like a pretty obvious solution.

As far as the pictures go... You should have taken pictures while it was vacant. How would you feel if someone posted pictures of your bedroom and other private spaces all over the Internet for their own personal gain? No issues with that? For the duration of the lease, this is THEIR home. Same as leasing a car, they have the right to enjoy the property and not have their privacy invaded.

And as far as your other issues... It's their right to have a dog, and there's no obligation on their part to leave just to make things convenient for you. They also don't have to clean up their space for you to make it look good. Really sounds like you should have investigated further before signing up to be a landlord (especially in Ontario). School of hard knocks can be a rough one.

And just as an FYI, I'm neither a landlord or a renter. But it seems like both of your are the problem here.

C

crazycoder wrote: ↑ Can't do that, I'm not moving in nor moving my family in, and I don't have a signed sale agreement. Tenants that know their rights are the worst.

Might the most ridiculous thing I've seen this week. Hope this was a joke.

crazycoder wrote: ↑ I own a detached rental in York Region - current tenant is making showings difficult:
1. Not allowing me to take pictures
2. Notifying me that big dog that lives there can potentially bite if any entry while they are not there
3. If any showings occur they will follow and hover over anyone that comes in.

What can I do, please give me some ideas. I want to sell at this peak, no way prices remain this high in a year, these tenants are difficult.

There is no legal obligation for the tenants to allow you to take any pictures. You may want to use the photos from previous sale when you first bought the place, if they still exist.

As mentioned by others, your "no pets" clause was an illegal one so should never have been in the lease to begin with.

If you feel the tenants are truly interfering with your legal rights to sell the place, you could issue them an N5 eviction notice:
https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/l ... ons/N5.pdf
Reason 1:Your behaviour or the behaviour of someone visiting or living with you has substantially
interfered with another tenant's or my:
• lawful rights, privileges, or interests

This would force them to change their behavior or come to an agreement with you on how to do showings more effectively within 7 days, or you could then proceed to an LTB hearing for eviction. Of course this could take many, many months to schedule. And after attempting to evict, the tenants may become even more resistant to helping you in any way.

Not to mention that if the LTB agreed with the tenants that they aren't doing anything illegal, the whole N5 eviction could just be thrown out. And if they are actually allowing the showings in the first place, you'd have a very hard time to prove they are really infringing on your rights to sell.

Of course you realize that if you actually manage to sell the place and new owner wants for personal use with a vacant home upon possession, the tenants may refuse to leave and you'll be forced to go to LTB to evict them. So better put some clauses into any future sales agreement that protects yourself in case the closing date come and tenants haven't moved out yet.

I agree with all the other comments here, to find out what it will cost to get them to move asap and sell your place untenanted.

Everyone seems to be harping on you for hating on your shit tennants.

I really don’t understand it. It’s your house, eff the renters. But unfortunately there are laws that are biased in favour of them.

Anyway if I were to pay 10k for anything it would be to people who can convince them it’s in their best interest to move out (if you catch my drift), rather than paying your Tennants out… seems like more bang for your buck

moeymoeymoeymoe wrote: ↑ Everyone seems to be harping on you for hating on your shit tennants.

I really don’t understand it. It’s your house, eff the renters. But unfortunately there are laws that are biased in favour of them.

Anyway if I were to pay 10k for anything it would be to people who can convince them it’s in their best interest to move out (if you catch my drift), rather than paying your Tennants out… seems like more bang for your buck

Cant tell if joking or an idiot.

moeymoeymoeymoe wrote: ↑ Everyone seems to be harping on you for hating on your shit tennants.

I really don’t understand it. It’s your house, eff the renters. But unfortunately there are laws that are biased in favour of them.

Anyway if I were to pay 10k for anything it would be to people who can convince them it’s in their best interest to move out (if you catch my drift), rather than paying your Tennants out… seems like more bang for your buck

It's his property, but it's the tenant's home, for the duration of the lease. That's the way the process works. Don't like it, don't be a landlord.

C

senasena wrote: ↑ That you don't know.

However I can tell you that selling with a difficult tenant will cost you alot, you are better off paying them to move out and selling vacant.

This is your only option, unless you are prepared to leave a significant amount of money on the table for someone to take them on.

Get rid of the tenant.

If you need to sell with the tenant message me as I may have a buyer that will take this on no issues.

Honestly you will probably make a lot more money if you have the tenants gone. People really do pay more for nice things and like to see something staged even in a hot market it changes the buyers perception. They need it to look nice and done up, you simply can get more money this way. It could be worth it to work a way to have them leave and pay them and then you can get the place done up right and ready to sell it. I understand you think you need to cash out but I doubt the market is just going to crash anytime soon. Be patient and see if you can have them agree to leave.

crazycoder wrote: ↑
Thanks, you confirmed my worst, these tenants are real savvy, I think they will ask for 10k or something to move out. They moved in a dog a year later even though I had a no pets clause, but they cited its a null and void clause, I also have to do lawn care and snow clearing services as they siad that is null and void as well. I just want them out now so I can cash in.

I really dont want to miss this opportunity to get out and get my roughly 500k cap gains out of this place and be relieved of the headache. I work in risk, and I really don't think prices will remain this high, also my firm believes the same. A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush as they say.

If you work in risk you should have probably learned the laws and risks that come with rentals instead of trying to add illegal clauses expecting ignorant tenants.

crazycoder wrote: ↑ Can't do that, I'm not moving in nor moving my family in, and I don't have a signed sale agreement. Tenants that know their rights are the worst.

Sorry to say this, but it seems that in your case, the problem is the landlord who does not know the rules (or worse, knows the rules and ignores them)... I wonder how this will play out in LTB if you get there and they bring up what you did.

And here is some actual advice: Get your realtor to work with the tenant - they know best how to avoid the emotional stuff and get it done. Owners of the condo we are renting sold the property earlier this year and the best thing they did was to have their realtor do most of the communication. The realtor was a great buffer and instead of getting emotional (as I'm sure both we and the owners were), worked on solutions to both keep us happy (I wasn't ecstatic to have hundreds of people come in and out in the middle of a pandemic). Still was fairly stressful but with emotions things could have escalated very quickly.

My two pet peeves in one thread.

In one corner, a landlord who puts void clauses and expect them to be met.
In the other corner, a tenant who exploits their tenancy rights.

My question to OP is: in the lease, did you spell out that you do have to right to take pictures should you decide to sell the place? That's one clause that will not be voided, though you should still blur/mask any personal identifying info on the pictures.

The good thing is, the tenants know their rights, and as such, should know their obligations. Meaning that if you do manage to sell and serve them notice, they will obediently, according to the tenancy act, leave the premises.

My advice is to invest in that cash-for-key and have them sign the proper notices. Whatever you pay, you can write off (please confirm with accountant).

My second advice is, if you think the market is so hot, you should have no problem selling the place even if it is tenanted and doesn't show well and don't have pictures (that's how hot a market can get), just proceed with selling the property tenanted. You should advise the tenants that they are responsible and liable for the actions of the pet. Should the dog injure someone during a visit, the dog may be removed by law enforcement. Best to have the dog secured in a specific area to avoid issues. As for the tenants following the viewers, they may do that for the first 3-4 visits. In a hot area, you can potentially get over 10 visits a day, do you really think the tenants will follow every single visit?

moeymoeymoeymoe wrote: ↑ Everyone seems to be harping on you for hating on your shit tennants.

I really don’t understand it. It’s your house, eff the renters. But unfortunately there are laws that are biased in favour of them.

Anyway if I were to pay 10k for anything it would be to people who can convince them it’s in their best interest to move out (if you catch my drift), rather than paying your Tennants out… seems like more bang for your buck

Don't rent out your home if you are willing to accept the risks. Tenants have rights, they are real people, their intent when renting was not "hey this guy needs help with his mortgage". I am seeing owners left and right trying to sell right now to take advantage of the high return they will net. Most have no qualms about kicking their tenants to the curb for $$$. The more educated tenant ends up in front of the tribunal (which is backlogged right now) and typically a mutual move out date is agreed upon (after the tenant has already gotten a few extra months out of it). There are other tenants who when asked to leave just get up and leave then find themselves in a situation where they cannot find a place, end up having to pay 30%+ more for rent, and engage in rental bidding wars throughout it all. They were oblivious to their rights and it cost them. Via the tribunal the landlord must produce an affidavit that the reason they need the home back is for themselves or family, they must agree to live in it for 1yr, they will end up paying the tenant an extra months rent in their pocket plus minimum 2 months notice if they are lucky.

CNeufeld wrote: ↑ It's his property, but it's the tenant's home, for the duration of the lease. That's the way the process works. Don't like it, don't be a landlord.

C

In Ontario it's basically the tenant's property.

The rules are garbage and exploited by crafty tenants....it is what it is. Either you get out of the game or deal with the nonsense.