Real Estate

Ottawa and Surrounding Area Real Estate market discussion

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Member
Dec 16, 2017
207 posts
229 upvotes
skeet50 wrote: With a $300k budget you are most likely looking at a condo in Orleans - either an apartment or condo town.
Well I heard back from my lender, and the 300-325k number he gave is doesn't include my down (whew!), so at least that makes things a bit easier!
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May 23, 2017
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Sazerac wrote: Well I heard back from my lender, and the 300-325k number he gave is doesn't include my down (whew!), so at least that makes things a bit easier!
Good to hear, in that case I would definitely try for a freehold townhouse in Orleans then. I would say Rockland is a decent choice if you do like living there and want to stay longterm, but in your case, if your ultimate goal is to move back to Ottawa anyways and you can afford a decent place in Orleans, there is no reason to move to Rockland. Like I mentioned before, I definitely think real estate in Orleans has more potential for future appreciation as well. But do note that it's a sellers' market right now so you will have to be patient--might take a bit of looking to find a place. Definitely make sure you get a good real estate agent who can help you navigate bidding wars successfully without pushing you to overbid.
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May 23, 2017
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skeet50 wrote: We visited Minto's Mahogany community just last weekend. We thought the first phase looked really nice. There's a lot of building that needs to happen before it becomes the next big suburb. My concern with Minto's community is the small, city - sized lots. When I think of Manotick, I think of larger lots with homes spaced further apart.
I just looked at Mahogany prices and wow, they are not cheap! Similar to Barrhaven and Kanata prices actually, doesn't seem like a place to get a bargain. Though I guess it's a bit difficult to compare directly since Minto offers totally different models in Manotick and I don't know if the finishes are maybe better, plus the lots are a bit bigger (as you mentioned, definitely not the "acreage" lots that other houses in Manotick have but still quite decent-sized compared to the usual new suburban homes these days).

@dngyn420: I think Manotick would be a really lovely place to live if you like being further out of the city, but I wouldn't count on it being the "next big surburb" (unless maybe your timeline is 20+ years after all existing land closer to Ottawa is exhausted). Just my 2 cents though. Barrhaven and Kanata saw huge growth in the last 2 decades because land inside the greenbelt was exhausted and these surburbs are located just outside the greenbelt--they offered nice communities to live in while being significantly cheaper than houses inside the greenbelt (especially for people who prefer to buy brand new). The wide range of houses, including stacked towns and condos in a much lower price range, means that many first-time buyers with limited budgets are able to comfortably afford to buy there. The population/development boom then leads to further growth in various amenities which makes the suburbs more attractive, and then it becomes a positive cycle.

Manotick on the other hand is quite expensive already so you won't see people flocking there to buy because they see a bargain. It's also seen as a more "upscale" community with mostly homeowners buying large single detached houses (I don't follow the area closely but I'm not aware of any rentals or townhouses being built there), which limits the population growth and also means there really aren't people buying up property as investments with the intention to rent out--which you see a lot of in other suburbs that helps drive up demand and prices (I'm sure people living in Manotick view this point as a major plus though!). Many first-time homebuyers will likely find it too expensive, so the target population is probably older or higher-paid families who enjoy a slightly more "country-living" lifestyle. There is still plenty of land in the Ottawa suburbs that are yet to be developed, much of which is closer to the city, and will offer significantly cheaper options. There's definitely been a lot of growth and increased amenities in Manotick now compared to a few decades ago, but I just don't see it becoming like Kanata/Barrhaven anytime soon. All-in-all, I would definitely buy there if it fits what you're looking for in a principal residence (definitely a desirable place to live with great quality of life--slightly too far out from the city for my personal preference but I know lots of people who like quieter communities); however if looking for max returns on your investment, there are better areas in Ottawa.
Jr. Member
Feb 23, 2007
133 posts
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Hi can anyone recommend a design and or contractor company? We recently bought a place and want to do some upgrades (kitchen, one bath, refinish floors, fireplace, etc, etc). I dont trust homestars as a source... I guess a designer as a start makes sense, but would they have trades people they can vouch for? Going with GC with designer in house could also make sense, but I feel like thats a possible conflict of interest for designer and lots more work could be billed?
Pretty new to this, so any advice/contacts appreciated!
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Dec 4, 2016
2011 posts
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voodoo22 wrote: When we moved to Ottawa we thought we would be living downtown, but after years of research we ended up buying way out in Stittsville, because we found the conveniences you mention as the big differences weren't much different if you searched carefully. For example, we're 5-10 minute walks from a major grocery store, shops a bus stop which has an express bus downtown and eventually we will be about 600 meters from a park and ride. When we searched downtown, the area's there didn't spec out much different, but at over twice the price for much, much less space and luxury. Ottawa is a strange area this way. I'm not sure about the east side though, as we didn't consider that part of town.
Downtown Ottawa is indeed less "happening" than other big cities, and jobs tend to be located in sub-urbs. This is probably partly a nature of federal government, which likes to have rank and file employees housed in large sub-urban complexes, (CMHC, NRC, CSIS, etc), and partly a legacy of tech sector being located in Kanata rather than downtown.
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Dec 4, 2016
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jk9088 wrote: Also I wouldn't say it's a great comparison to Stittsville (even if distance-wise Rockland is only a bit further from downtown)...Stittsville is practically one big community with Kanata nowadays and combined they have a population of 150k (and growing fast as we speak). Clarence-Rockland has a population of less than 25k (also growing fast though). As a result there's way more stuff you can do in Stittsville without having to drive into the city--for example, if you wanted to go see a movie in Rockland you'd have to drive out to Orleans. In Stittsville you can just make a short trip to Landmark in Kanata Centrum. Tons more nice restaurants and "finer" dining options in Stittsville/Kanata as well.
Kanata/Stittsville is basically its own city with its own employment base, so it's less of a "commuting sub-urb" feeling like Orleans and Rockland.
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Jul 4, 2004
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Ottawa
BlueSolstice wrote: Kanata/Stittsville is basically its own city with its own employment base, so it's less of a "commuting sub-urb" feeling like Orleans and Rockland.
I agree that there's a significantly sized employment base in Kanata but looking at the traffic on the 417 and buses, there's certainly a large population that commute.
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Nov 10, 2014
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Ottawa, ON
Interested to see the June numbers and the activity levels going forward now that the spring market is winding down. Still very much a seller's market but Inventory seems inching up, and homes tend to sit on the market little longer than they were month or two ago.

For all the talk how hot the market was, I think only few segments of the market (eg. suburban townhomes) saw a significant double digit gains in price. Feels very different than some of the recent hot markets in other cities such as Vancouver when the higher end homes in west Van increased in double digits as well.
Sr. Member
Oct 2, 2017
850 posts
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Sazerac wrote: I kind of wonder about that though with Rockland. Of course it's always a gamble, and Orleans still has a good amount of land to develop, but I wonder if Rockland will end up being the next Orleans in the not-so-far future. They've been talking for years now about making the highway to Rockland 4 lanes, and if they one day extend public transit out there, the community could become really in demand. And if that happens, those who already live there will be laughing.

Again, this is just wishful thinking, and I would much prefer moving to Orleans, but what if...

A man can dream right?
we moved there last month and got a huge home for a really affordable price. The only downside is the commute, but that's an east end thing and you'll still suffer the horrible traffic at the split regardless of whether it is Orleans further. Unlike Embrun or Russell it does have all the big box stores (walmart, cdn tire, rona, dollar store etc) and the fast food chains and a bunch of other businesses which reduces your need to drive out of town except for work.

My fav thing though is the commute from Rockland to Trim, i'll never get tired of that river view.

Be warned tho, the taxes are very very high.
I'll see you at the top, cause the bottom is too crowded
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Jan 15, 2017
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azmongold wrote: we moved there last month and got a huge home for a really affordable price. The only downside is the commute, but that's an east end thing and you'll still suffer the horrible traffic at the split regardless of whether it is Orleans further. Unlike Embrun or Russell it does have all the big box stores (walmart, cdn tire, rona, dollar store etc) and the fast food chains and a bunch of other businesses which reduces your need to drive out of town except for work.

My fav thing though is the commute from Rockland to Trim, i'll never get tired of that river view.

Be warned tho, the taxes are very very high.
We have looked at almost all the bedroom communities around Ottawa and have discovered that many have higher property taxes than Ottawa.
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Nov 13, 2013
4527 posts
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Ottawa
azmongold wrote: we moved there last month and got a huge home for a really affordable price. The only downside is the commute, but that's an east end thing and you'll still suffer the horrible traffic at the split regardless of whether it is Orleans further. Unlike Embrun or Russell it does have all the big box stores (walmart, cdn tire, rona, dollar store etc) and the fast food chains and a bunch of other businesses which reduces your need to drive out of town except for work.

My fav thing though is the commute from Rockland to Trim, i'll never get tired of that river view.

Be warned tho, the taxes are very very high.
Wow this really surprised me. Actually I doubted you and had to look it up myself. Rockland doesn't have to pay for transit or most of the social services and is still about 20% higher from their estimator. I guess to some extent it is not a fair comparison as assessments would be much lower so the average person probably pays the same or less no?

Ottawa is likely to catch up with the LRT as the transit portion is set to double over the medium term. Maybe Ottawa without transit service is the sweet spot. I guess this is pretty rare at this point and they can always add two buses a day to qualify for transit service.
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Nov 13, 2013
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fogetmylogin wrote: Wow this really surprised me. Actually I doubted you and had to look it up myself. Rockland doesn't have to pay for transit or most of the social services and is still about 20% higher from their estimator. I guess to some extent it is not a fair comparison as assessments would be much lower so the average person probably pays the same or less no?

Ottawa is likely to catch up with the LRT as the transit portion is set to double over the medium term. Maybe Ottawa without transit service is the sweet spot. I guess this is pretty rare at this point and they can always add two buses a day to qualify for transit service.

I have some acquaintances who live in Rockland or actually I think in between there and Orleans and claim the commute is way better than the west end to downtown and especially to Byward market where they work. 30 minutes door to door to a lot on St. Patrick.
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May 23, 2017
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skeet50 wrote: We have looked at almost all the bedroom communities around Ottawa and have discovered that many have higher property taxes than Ottawa.
Yes, and IMO it makes sense for smaller communities to have higher tax rates, simply because the house values are cheaper, as fogetmylogin alluded to. It's like when everyone complains Ottawa tax rates are much higher than Toronto or Vancouver--you can't just look at the % or amount because you're not comparing apples to apples. Does it make sense that someone in Ottawa with a 400k townhouse pays half the tax as someone in Toronto with a 800k townhouse of the same size? It's only fair that the tax rate in Toronto is ~0.5% while in Ottawa it's 1%. Similarly, if you compare two houses of similar size in Ottawa vs. Rockland, I believe the tax amounts will be similar. Can't just look at house value.

In fact the way property taxes are calculated takes this into account (not sure of the exact calculation but it's based on mill rates, city takes the expected total and divides by total house values). Otherwise if your house appreciated from 500k to 1 million, your taxes would double which is not fair considering you're still living in the exact same house. Similarly, people in the States who saw their house values drop during the recession may have expected their taxes to also drop, but of course this was not the case (otherwise the city's budget would be in deep trouble).
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Dec 4, 2016
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Tadalafil wrote: Interested to see the June numbers and the activity levels going forward now that the spring market is winding down. Still very much a seller's market but Inventory seems inching up, and homes tend to sit on the market little longer than they were month or two ago.

For all the talk how hot the market was, I think only few segments of the market (eg. suburban townhomes) saw a significant double digit gains in price. Feels very different than some of the recent hot markets in other cities such as Vancouver when the higher end homes in west Van increased in double digits as well.
Prices in Ottawa is definitely increasing slowly, probably due to the availability of new builds. For Vancouver, the boom started in 2003, and it was the low end that first shot up. The dramatic increases in 2m+ homes in west side of Vancouver as well as West Vancouver happened around 2015, with huge influx of mainland money.

Since the benchmark increase yoy is only around 8%, it's not surprising that majority of Ottawa did not see double digit gains. Ottawa is 50% below Toronto, if you use historical trends. Ottawa and Toronto de-coupled in 2012-ish.
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Dec 4, 2016
2011 posts
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Traffic on the western portion of 417 is horrendous if you're not doing reverse commute. I always dread it whenever I have to go for a doctor's appointment in the morning. Comparing East End and West End perhaps is not complete fair -- if you work downtown, and you have no reason to be west of downtown, there's no reason to buy on the west of downtown. East end has less traffic, and somewhat cheaper property prices.
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Dec 27, 2009
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Victoria, BC
jk9088 wrote: Yes, and IMO it makes sense for smaller communities to have higher tax rates, simply because the house values are cheaper, as fogetmylogin alluded to. It's like when everyone complains Ottawa tax rates are much higher than Toronto or Vancouver--you can't just look at the % or amount because you're not comparing apples to apples. Does it make sense that someone in Ottawa with a 400k townhouse pays half the tax as someone in Toronto with a 800k townhouse of the same size? It's only fair that the tax rate in Toronto is ~0.5% while in Ottawa it's 1%. Similarly, if you compare two houses of similar size in Ottawa vs. Rockland, I believe the tax amounts will be similar. Can't just look at house value.

In fact the way property taxes are calculated takes this into account (not sure of the exact calculation but it's based on mill rates, city takes the expected total and divides by total house values). Otherwise if your house appreciated from 500k to 1 million, your taxes would double which is not fair considering you're still living in the exact same house. Similarly, people in the States who saw their house values drop during the recession may have expected their taxes to also drop, but of course this was not the case (otherwise the city's budget would be in deep trouble).
Hmm, We paid FAR less property tax in Victoria, BC on our townhouse that was valued far higher than our townhouse in Kanata. Even when we moved here and were using the townhouse as a rental our property tax was only about $1,800 (when we actually lived in Victoria they have a homeowner's grant and you pay far less - so we only paid about $1,200 when we lived there). Our property taxes on a townhouse here was more like $3,500.

My mom pays less tax on her house in Victoria (probably would sell for at least $1 million - even though it is bulldozer bait).
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Dec 4, 2016
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Chickinvic wrote: Hmm, We paid FAR less property tax in Victoria, BC on our townhouse that was valued far higher than our townhouse in Kanata. Even when we moved here and were using the townhouse as a rental our property tax was only about $1,800 (when we actually lived in Victoria they have a homeowner's grant and you pay far less - so we only paid about $1,200 when we lived there). Our property taxes on a townhouse here was more like $3,500.

My mom pays less tax on her house in Victoria (probably would sell for at least $1 million - even though it is bulldozer bait).
Property tax per capita is higher in Ontario than in BC. As for why, I don't exactly know. You will need to really look at the finances of municipal governments to see.
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Jul 4, 2004
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BlueSolstice wrote: Property tax per capita is higher in Ontario than in BC. As for why, I don't exactly know. You will need to really look at the finances of municipal governments to see.
I'm not surprised that Ottawa's taxes are significantly higher than Victoria's because, if nothing else, Ottawa has a significant snow removal budget, spends a lot more on road maintenance and repair because of winters (not saying that Ottawa roads are better than Victoria, just that Ottawa probably has to repave roads every 10 years while Victoria might not have to do it for 25 years and I wouldn't be surprised if roads in Ottawa were more expensive to build because of frost). I also suspect that Ottawa has a much higher public transit budget (again not saying that it's better, just that they spend more on it) and Ottawa also offers services in both English and French which is certainly much more expensive.
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Aug 7, 2018
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Honest question. How come someone would consider moving all the way to Rockland when you can get a detached house under 300k in Vanier still.
Are people really that afraid of vanier's reputation?
For reference this is a current listing.
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2083 ... nier-south
Maybe this house has a significant problem that is not immediately apparent (beyond just being in Vanier, as under 300 is fairly uncommon), but affordable options do exist regularly.
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Dec 4, 2016
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DogsWithJobs wrote: Honest question. How come someone would consider moving all the way to Rockland when you can get a detached house under 300k in Vanier still.
Are people really that afraid of vanier's reputation?
For reference this is a current listing.
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2083 ... nier-south
Maybe this house has a significant problem that is not immediately apparent (beyond just being in Vanier, as under 300 is fairly uncommon), but affordable options do exist regularly.
The schools in Vanier are terrible, and commute from Rockland to most east end government jobs are not terrible. If your job is nowhere near transit and your employer expects you to own and operate a vehicle, difference between Rockland and Orleans is not that big. Personally, I'm fine with "generic suburb" feel, and find Orleans/Kanata/Barrhaven to be perfectly acceptable. But some might just want a somewhat more "country" feeling.

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