Real Estate

Ottawa and Surrounding Area Real Estate market discussion

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Deal Addict
Aug 3, 2017
1605 posts
1366 upvotes
arbytor wrote: I dont see the sold price yet on redfin but looking at the house and a 650K lost bid, this sounds like a record breaker. Some parts of the house does show well but I dont think it will be way higher than 650K. It could very well be 650.888K
It is possible I wasn't given the right information third hand either. When I looked at it, I figured 626k, but of course that was my amateur eye and thinking. If in fact 17 offers who knows these days.
Sr. Member
Aug 22, 2016
626 posts
408 upvotes
djdestroyer wrote: Outbid today, again. Coming up on my one year anniversary though we stopped looking during a few months of Covid.
Lots of stories like this in Ottawa in the last few years. It was slightly better pre-covid. Now almost all listings have the No conveyance of offer clause.

Winning bids are almost always higher than the comparable house sold and it does not matter the condition of the house.
Member
Oct 6, 2011
435 posts
105 upvotes
canabiz wrote: I have a different perspective on what you wrote here and if you or other folks disagree then that's fine, we live in a free, democratic society and we are all entitled to our opinions.

I get where you are coming from but my take on it is very simple: If you can't beat or change the systems, why not join them? and by this I mean use a realtor who provides cashback after closing. The system has been working like that for as long as I can remember. Is it perfect? No. Is it (the auctioning part) unethical and the highest bid will win out? That is very much debatable and it all depends whom you ask.

I don't get myself too concerned or worked up over this because I have other priorities in my life and as far as I am concerned, nobody is breaking any rules so I may as well get a piece of the pie (cashback) and move on to something else.

Just my 2 cents.
Valid point. Here's my personal opinion rant after having been on both buy/sell sides:

I think that the realtor profession is in for a bit of an awakening in the next 15 years. I just don't think that the value-add is there anymore. The percent commissions on the sale price have stayed the same yet now houses are selling for 50% + what they were several years ago. The agent's commissions have scaled accordingly for the same service they provide (not to mention that one could argue that it takes far less effort now to sell a house for a realtor than it did 20yrs ago). At what cost do people start looking into the DIY approach? $10k of commissions? 25k of commissions? To take some pictures, post them on MLS and take bookings through the ShowingTime app? The value-add I could see for seniors or first time home buyers but for the millennial generation in the workforce who DIY most other things, I could see them reluctant on this 'old school' approach. I mean the only reasons I used the realtor when I bought because it was 'free' and to physically open the lockbox for the showing. Otherwise I did the research and told them the properties that I wanted to see with the portal access.

What irks me about the profession is the walled garden approach. It's anti free-market. It's things like the portal priority that they and their clients have access to prior to listings being posted publicly on realtor.ca, access to the sold prices (recently made public but after years of battle ... but you still need an account lol), listing history etc. I feel that it's there to protect the realtors vs having an open market. Don't get me wrong, realtors are very useful for many cases but I foresee the next generation having to depend on them less than previous generations, especially if the commissions remain so high.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 4, 2004
7430 posts
4677 upvotes
Ottawa
dolfan1980 wrote: Anyone know what this one went for today? I know someone who bid $650k without conditions and lost the bid, apparently 17 bids.

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/2236 ... bridlewood
It's not listed as sold yet but that's not unusual as even if they have accepted a firm, no condition offer, the agent should be waiting for the deposit to be received before setting it as sold. It's likely it will be updated later this morning when the office receives the deposit.
Deal Addict
Nov 26, 2004
4462 posts
4127 upvotes
zherdev wrote: Valid point. Here's my personal opinion rant after having been on both buy/sell sides:

I think that the realtor profession is in for a bit of an awakening in the next 15 years. I just don't think that the value-add is there anymore. The percent commissions on the sale price have stayed the same yet now houses are selling for 50% + what they were several years ago. The agent's commissions have scaled accordingly for the same service they provide (not to mention that one could argue that it takes far less effort now to sell a house for a realtor than it did 20yrs ago). At what cost do people start looking into the DIY approach? $10k of commissions? 25k of commissions? To take some pictures, post them on MLS and take bookings through the ShowingTime app? The value-add I could see for seniors or first time home buyers but for the millennial generation in the workforce who DIY most other things, I could see them reluctant on this 'old school' approach. I mean the only reasons I used the realtor when I bought because it was 'free' and to physically open the lockbox for the showing. Otherwise I did the research and told them the properties that I wanted to see with the portal access.

What irks me about the profession is the walled garden approach. It's anti free-market. It's things like the portal priority that they and their clients have access to prior to listings being posted publicly on realtor.ca, access to the sold prices (recently made public but after years of battle ... but you still need an account lol), listing history etc. I feel that it's there to protect the realtors vs having an open market. Don't get me wrong, realtors are very useful for many cases but I foresee the next generation having to depend on them less than previous generations, especially if the commissions remain so high.
I completely agree with what you said and I don't really see how an average RE agent brings any value to the table for the millennial, sort of like how the average full services stock brokers bring any value to their client from 40 years ago.

Yet, what really surprise me is unlike the equity/stock market where we more or less see the discount brokerage dominating the industry and replacing the full service brokers, we have not seen any such discount brokerage being successful in the Real Estate industry.

I have no clue as to how profitable Grapevine was when they were solely a facilitator for buyers and sellers in a private real estate transaction. But looking at Purplebrick's financial statements, as they are a publicly traded company, one can see they have loss buckets of money in Australia and US before folding up shop there, and their divested Canadian operation isn't a cash cow they had hope for either.

In order for this industry to change, I would like to think it will take a large IT company that has a lot of money to burn and create a system that can rival the MLS system. Sort of like how Uber disrupted the Taxi Industry, Airbnb disrupted the hotel industry or Amazon disrupted the retail industry. Otherwise, it will more or less be the same old, and consumer just have to live with the Realtor's fees.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 4, 2004
7430 posts
4677 upvotes
Ottawa
arbytor wrote: I dont see the sold price yet on redfin but looking at the house and a 650K lost bid, this sounds like a record breaker. Some parts of the house does show well but I dont think it will be way higher than 650K. It could very well be 650.888K
Sold for $706k
Deal Addict
Nov 10, 2014
1278 posts
3034 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
The norm of paying 5%+HST to realtors in a 500k+ average sales price market is going to disappear real quick like it has in Toronto and Vancouver.

Not only do realtors have to worry about tech companies eating their lunch (Redfin seem promising in the states), they have to compete with thousands of realtors who are just waiting for their phones to ring since random person off the street, their mom, and their dog has a realtor license these days. Anecdotally, it seems like most of my friends in Toronto who bought there used a family friend realtor representing them for 0.5%. I imagine Ottawa is becoming far more saturated with realtors by the day as people are piling in looking at the red hot market expecting it to be easy money. I can probably find a realtor to represent me for 1% in Ottawa with a couple of quick phone calls.

With all that being said, I still believe in the value of using great realtors and paying for their services. The average realtor off the street is next to useless, their are fees grossly outweigh whatever small value they provide, and will soon be out of a job as people clue in that whatever work they do isn't worth 10k+. The few great realtors however provide value that far exceed the commission I pay them. I consider myself to be pretty knowledgeable about the market and a disciplined investor, but I suffer from reading the listings right to left (price first than the property itself like a true RFDer). Among many value-adds, I found my realtor to be really valuable in talking me out of "deals" that were "cheap" but were more headaches than it was worth where as a garbage realtor would sell me out in a second to get the quick commission and move on to the next sucker.
Deal Addict
Nov 10, 2014
1278 posts
3034 upvotes
Ottawa, ON
michelb wrote: Sold for $706k

This year's Ottawa market price gains is going to make Toronto blush in shame lol.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Jun 28, 2003
12183 posts
5650 upvotes
Ottawa
William W wrote: I completely agree with what you said and I don't really see how an average RE agent brings any value to the table for the millennial, sort of like how the average full services stock brokers bring any value to their client from 40 years ago.

Yet, what really surprise me is unlike the equity/stock market where we more or less see the discount brokerage dominating the industry and replacing the full service brokers, we have not seen any such discount brokerage being successful in the Real Estate industry.

I have no clue as to how profitable Grapevine was when they were solely a facilitator for buyers and sellers in a private real estate transaction. But looking at Purplebrick's financial statements, as they are a publicly traded company, one can see they have loss buckets of money in Australia and US before folding up shop there, and their divested Canadian operation isn't a cash cow they had hope for either.

In order for this industry to change, I would like to think it will take a large IT company that has a lot of money to burn and create a system that can rival the MLS system. Sort of like how Uber disrupted the Taxi Industry, Airbnb disrupted the hotel industry or Amazon disrupted the retail industry. Otherwise, it will more or less be the same old, and consumer just have to live with the Realtor's fees.
I do not work in the real estate industry so I do not have any dog in this fight, so to speak, but I do recognize the added value a competent realtor will provide. As you know, we picked up another property earlier this year and this is just my honest and unbiased feedback.

- I am very busy with my regular work and have other priorities outside of this. I do not buy and sell real estate for a living, therefore, I rely on a realtor to set up a MLS portal to send me the listings that meet our criteria. I also scour Kijii, Purplebricks and other forums for possible private listings, time permitting.

- A competent realtor must be able to give clients feedback on the properties that they are interested in, everything from location to future plans for surrounding vicinity, if applicable, to potential issues of the properties that may be visible to an experienced realtor, but not necessarily to the home buyers.

- A competent realtor must be able to advise clients how much they should offer and what conditions/closing date should be included, given the information available to them and current market conditions. Based on the advice of our realtor, we included a clause to review the lease for existing tenants for one of the property we were looking at and that allowed us to walk away. Would a typical home-buyer, millennial or not, know about this? I don't want to assume anything.

- A competent realtor must be able to tap into his/her network of contacts and let the clients know if there is any listing available for a quick transaction before it hits MLS.

- A competent realtor must be able to ensure all the t's are dotted and the i's are crossed, so to speak, for a seamless transaction, even post-closing and that includes sending the home buyers cashback, if that is part of the deal. Sure any realtor can simply say *That is for your lawyers to review and take care of* and but I want somebody who will go above and beyond his responsibilities to represent me.

Just trying to provide some perspective from the other side of the fence.
Member
May 17, 2010
397 posts
264 upvotes
William W wrote: Yet, what really surprise me is unlike the equity/stock market where we more or less see the discount brokerage dominating the industry and replacing the full service brokers, we have not seen any such discount brokerage being successful in the Real Estate industry.
Sorry, but dominating the industry is a little bit of a stretch.
Deal Addict
Feb 7, 2018
1247 posts
2159 upvotes
canabiz wrote: I personally do not see this concept moving over from the buy and sell market to the rental market. For starters, there is a ceiling to how much you can charge for rent for any type of homes in any type of neighbourhoods. If people are crazy enough to overpay their competition significantly more, just so they can secure the rental place, then they can fill their boots. Reasonable people would simply walk away and look at other rental properties. It's not like there is a shortage of rental properties in the current climate.

Secondly, if landlords are intentionally setting up a lower asking price for rent, hoping to attract multiple bidders and go with the one that show the most money, I think they are setting themselves up for disaster. We have discussed *lower-tier tenants* on a few occasions here before, who could potentially call you at any time of the day, any day of the week, demanding answers and services right away. Do you really want to go through the hassle of dealing with that? just to possibly make a few hundred dollars more a month and that's not a guarantee by any stretch.

Lastly, no real estate agents worth their salt would entertain this kind of idea. Many are already shying away from rentals, preferring to focus their time on the buy/sell market where they can make much more in terms of commissions and generate more leads for future business. And now certain landlords expect them to entertain all kind of inquiries and going through all kind of due diligence to find that most qualified tenants who could pay a few hundred more a month? If I were a realtor, I would politely tell such landlords to find other agents who are open to do so and good luck to them in their approach.
Always keeping an eye to the future my good man. I bet if you asked people 10 years ago if suburban houses would be bid up $50k+ over asking you would have been laughed out of the room for the exact same reasons you posited here.

Also best offer doesn’t mean highest price - we lost out on a place recently because we asked for status certificate condition only and winning bid was $4k lower with absolutely no conditions. Same thing could apply to rentals - higher deposit, longer term, no pets etc... could win over a riskier tenant offering more $$.

I don’t think it’s very likely that these types of bidding wars will end up on the rental side - but I’ve been wrong so many times when it comes to Ottawa RE over the past 5 years because what I perceive as rational market behavior does not play out in reality. I’d like to be prepared for all scenarios.
Member
Jan 10, 2012
464 posts
116 upvotes
Ottawa
What is the bidding war experience from a buyer perspective? Since many properties go for much higher than asking, how does a buyer determine the offer price? To me, an offer of let's say 50k over the last sold similar house in the neighbourhood is very stressful. Maybe the crazy offers occurs after the seller narrows down to 2 or 3 offers and asks them to go even higher? If you know there is one more offer close to yours, it might make it easier to go a bit higher.
Deal Addict
Sep 2, 2009
2978 posts
3020 upvotes
Ottawa
raaaaam wrote: What is the bidding war experience from a buyer perspective? Since many properties go for much higher than asking, how does a buyer determine the offer price? To me, an offer of let's say 50k over the last sold similar house in the neighbourhood is very stressful. Maybe the crazy offers occurs after the seller narrows down to 2 or 3 offers and asks them to go even higher? If you know there is one more offer close to yours, it might make it easier to go a bit higher.
Like many things: it depends. Some people can come out of the gate 100k over and win outright. Some can come in a close second and be asked if it is their best offer. The highest offer can also be asked if it is their best.

Personally, I've seen the best offer increase by 2k to "seal the deal" with no more back and forth. But they were barely the best offer after the second best offer *thought* they were the best and added 20k to their original offer (but it was clear they thought they were the best to begin with when they were shocked they did not get called back to finish signing off on the deal).

I have also increased an original offer by 40k and "barely" managed to secure a purchase this year. It was FSBO so I did get a little bit more info than if it had been through agents.

Also have a friend that was tired of looking and to him no more losing and just getting a place was the biggest thing (could afford and was willing to spend more than FMV). Took the most recent sales, added on 50k (making it close to 100k over asking), without conditions (pre-inspected).

An important part here is not "how much over asking" though; it is "how much over very recent comparables".

Tldr it depends
Deal Addict
Sep 29, 2013
1000 posts
655 upvotes
cloak wrote: Like many things: it depends. Some people can come out of the gate 100k over and win outright. Some can come in a close second and be asked if it is their best offer. The highest offer can also be asked if it is their best.

Personally, I've seen the best offer increase by 2k to "seal the deal" with no more back and forth. But they were barely the best offer after the second best offer *thought* they were the best and added 20k to their original offer (but it was clear they thought they were the best to begin with when they were shocked they did not get called back to finish signing off on the deal).

I have also increased an original offer by 40k and "barely" managed to secure a purchase this year. It was FSBO so I did get a little bit more info than if it had been through agents.

Also have a friend that was tired of looking and to him no more losing and just getting a place was the biggest thing (could afford and was willing to spend more than FMV). Took the most recent sales, added on 50k (making it close to 100k over asking), without conditions (pre-inspected).

An important part here is not "how much over asking" though; it is "how much over very recent comparables".

Tldr it depends

I think this is how it works as well. It's like 1 house sells then that becomes the baseline for next house. I tried to make a bully offer on a place but through agent to agent conversation, "baseline" was 75K more than their list price based on a recent comparable. I'm sure they will get it. Place was immaculate, next to park and RioCan market place.
Deal Addict
Sep 29, 2013
1000 posts
655 upvotes
Barrhaven related:

Spoke to Glenview home who had a small release last weekend and will be doing a big release in October....
Cheapest town was 560K.

He quoted Claridge's ridiculous prices and said their justification is ~16K for extra lumber costs + appreciation on top of their Summer prices. He thinks they may reach ~600K next release.
Sr. Member
Aug 22, 2016
626 posts
408 upvotes
arbytor wrote:
I dont see the sold price yet on redfin but looking at the house and a 650K lost bid, this sounds like a record breaker. Some parts of the house does show well but I dont think it will be way higher than 650K. It could very well be 650.888K
michelb wrote: Sold for $706k
The home owners on that Shetland Way are gonna be so happy with the buyer for pushing the price of their home up by 100K.
Newbie
Aug 25, 2011
74 posts
27 upvotes
OTTAWA
Market is still strong. Just sold my town in Barrhaven for 70k over asking. It’s unfortunate for people that keep losing out but I’m afraid cash is king. We had 12 offers.
Sr. Member
Jul 15, 2019
724 posts
588 upvotes
Longwood's sales in rockland have just exploded from slowness prior to COVID, to non-existent during the start of the pandemic... to now almost being sold out.

They have 1 lot left for a Vichy which they raised another $15K on, which brings it to $537,315 and one elite lot left for a Mcarthur going for $610,900.

Their largest town the toulouse now goes for $410K, from $359,900 in May.

Ottawa is strong, and the surrouding cities are seing the spillover... Looking at Rocklands redfin recent sales, you can see many things going far above asking in the 3-4 bedroom range.

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