Automotive

Parking lot accident fault determination

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 3rd, 2020 1:04 pm
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 16, 2018
11 posts
3 upvotes

Parking lot accident fault determination

I was reversing into a parking space. The car parked next to that space also started reversing out. I saw that and stopped. But he kept proceeding and eventually hit me. I have dashcam footage can prove that i stopped for 4-6 seconds before getting hit. My insurance told me its 50-50. If I appeal that decision, how likely am I going to get a no-fault?

Thank you.

Edit: the reason she told me is that my speed at time of collision didnt matter. Only the gear matters. I have to be at Park or Drive, not Reverse.
Edit2: The accident happened in Ontario
Last edited by waterloong on Jul 2nd, 2020 10:23 am, edited 4 times in total.
28 replies
Deal Expert
Aug 22, 2011
37850 posts
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Center of Universe
Contact the insurance company's ombudsman.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jul 30, 2007
31905 posts
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Toronto
Parking lot incident is not always 50/50. Since you have proof of some type, you should pursue further review and dispute with your insurance company
Deal Fanatic
Jul 13, 2009
5078 posts
3324 upvotes
Did you honk?

Still sounds 50/50. Parking lots are the wild west, I park as far as possible...
Deal Expert
Jan 15, 2006
19155 posts
19073 upvotes
Richmond Hill
This will be tricky as you were not in the laneway. If you were still fully in the lane and the other car backed out and hit you, you would not be deemed at fault. If both parties are in a spot or partially insurance usually goes 50/50. Fight this of course by insisting and going higher up and like vkizzle suggested contact the ombudsman if all else fails.
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 16, 2018
11 posts
3 upvotes
EP32k2 wrote: This will be tricky as you were not in the laneway. If you were still fully in the lane and the other car backed out and hit you, you would not be deemed at fault. If both parties are in a spot or partially insurance usually goes 50/50. Fight this of course by insisting and going higher up and like vkizzle suggested contact the ombudsman if all else fails.
I was fully in the laneway. His head was in the parking space.
Deal Addict
Jul 17, 2003
1347 posts
230 upvotes
Toronto
Below are the fault determination rules. Can you draw a diagram to show where exactly your car was when the other person backed out? Where is the damage on your car, is it your rear bumper and his rear bumper, or did he hit you on a rear fender or rear door?
Was your car still in the feeder lane, and not yet in the spot you were backing into? If so, I think #4 should apply to your scenario and especially if you have dashcam footage showing you were stopped for 5 seconds.

As for escalating to the ombusdman...it's better than doing nothing, but don't hold your breath.

Who is your insurance company? Mine is TD Meloche Monnex (now TD Insurance) and I've gone through their dispute escalation process last year. It is terrible. First you deal with the adjustor, then escalate to the manager, then escalate to TD Customer Service, then escalate to TD Ombudsman. Very disappointing customer service and pure incompetency on every level, and due to the volume of cases they have, each step takes a LONG time (several weeks).


================================================

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900668

Rules for Automobiles in Parking Lots
16. (1) This section applies with respect to incidents in parking lots. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (1).

(2) The degree of fault of a driver involved in an incident on a thoroughfare shall be determined in accordance with this Regulation as if the thoroughfare were a road. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (2).

(3) If automobile “A” is leaving a feeder lane and fails to yield the right of way to automobile “B” on a thoroughfare, the driver of automobile “A” is 100 per cent at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is not at fault for the incident. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (3).

(4) If automobile “A” is leaving a parking space and fails to yield the right of way to automobile “B” on a feeder lane or a thoroughfare, the driver of automobile “A” is 100 per cent at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is not at fault for the incident. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (4).

(5) In this section,

“feeder lane” means a road in a parking lot other than a thoroughfare;

“thoroughfare” means a main road for passage into, through or out of a parking lot. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (5).
Deal Addict
Jul 17, 2003
1347 posts
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Toronto
waterloong wrote: Edit: the reason she told me is that my speed at time of collision didnt matter. Only the gear matters. I have to be at Park or Drive, not Reverse.
That sounds like insurance bullshitting you. Quote the fault determination rules R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (4) as I posted in my previous post. It says nothing about what gear you're in, just which car was in motion and where each car was.
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 16, 2018
11 posts
3 upvotes
bhrm wrote: Did you honk?

Still sounds 50/50. Parking lots are the wild west, I park as far as possible...
I didnt honk since I didnt think it could happen. He drives a recent model of a high end brand, which should be equipped with rear camera and parking sensor. Plus, there is always the mirror.
In general, I avoid honking people. Because I feel it is disturbing and could make newbies nervous and apply gas instead of brake. Maybe I should start to honk more
Last edited by waterloong on Jul 2nd, 2020 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Sep 9, 2012
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Oakville, ON
aZnRYcEbOi wrote: That sounds like insurance bullshitting you. Quote the fault determination rules R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (4) as I posted in my previous post. It says nothing about what gear you're in, just which car was in motion and where each car was.
This!
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 16, 2018
11 posts
3 upvotes
aZnRYcEbOi wrote: Below are the fault determination rules. Can you draw a diagram to show where exactly your car was when the other person backed out? Where is the damage on your car, is it your rear bumper and his rear bumper, or did he hit you on a rear fender or rear door?
Was your car still in the feeder lane, and not yet in the spot you were backing into? If so, I think #4 should apply to your scenario and especially if you have dashcam footage showing you were stopped for 5 seconds.

As for escalating to the ombusdman...it's better than doing nothing, but don't hold your breath.

Who is your insurance company? Mine is TD Meloche Monnex (now TD Insurance) and I've gone through their dispute escalation process last year. It is terrible. First you deal with the adjustor, then escalate to the manager, then escalate to TD Customer Service, then escalate to TD Ombudsman. Very disappointing customer service and pure incompetency on every level, and due to the volume of cases they have, each step takes a LONG time (several weeks).


================================================

https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900668

Rules for Automobiles in Parking Lots
16. (1) This section applies with respect to incidents in parking lots. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (1).

(2) The degree of fault of a driver involved in an incident on a thoroughfare shall be determined in accordance with this Regulation as if the thoroughfare were a road. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (2).

(3) If automobile “A” is leaving a feeder lane and fails to yield the right of way to automobile “B” on a thoroughfare, the driver of automobile “A” is 100 per cent at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is not at fault for the incident. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (3).

(4) If automobile “A” is leaving a parking space and fails to yield the right of way to automobile “B” on a feeder lane or a thoroughfare, the driver of automobile “A” is 100 per cent at fault and the driver of automobile “B” is not at fault for the incident. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (4).

(5) In this section,

“feeder lane” means a road in a parking lot other than a thoroughfare;

“thoroughfare” means a main road for passage into, through or out of a parking lot. R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (5).
Drawing is definitely not my strength...
Image
Deal Addict
Jul 17, 2003
1347 posts
230 upvotes
Toronto
Nice pic...lol.

Can you clarify where is the damage on his car, and where is the damage on your car?

Based on your drawing, if your car was still in the feeder lane, then you should call your insurance and quote R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (4). The other driver should be 100% at fault because he was going from parking spot to a feeder lane.
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 16, 2018
11 posts
3 upvotes
aZnRYcEbOi wrote: Nice pic...lol.

Can you clarify where is the damage on his car, and where is the damage on your car?

Based on your drawing, if your car was still in the feeder lane, then you should call your insurance and quote R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (4). The other driver should be 100% at fault because he was going from parking spot to a feeder lane.
My damage is on the body part around the rear passenger side tire. His damage is on driver side both doors. The drawing didnt show that because the rear side parts are not flat. They are slightly outward by design.
Deal Guru
Oct 7, 2010
13007 posts
3996 upvotes
If you honked and has the dash cam. Then shouldn't be 50 50.
Deal Addict
Jul 17, 2003
1347 posts
230 upvotes
Toronto
waterloong wrote: My damage is on the body part around the rear passenger side tire. His damage is on driver side both doors. The drawing didnt show that because the rear side parts are not flat. They are slightly outward by design.
Because it's side damage on both cars, then it isn't as clear cut based on pure physical evidence.

Nevertheless, since your car was still in the feeder lane and was stopped, you should call your insurance and quote R.R.O. 1990, Reg. 668, s. 16 (4). The other driver should be 100% at fault because he was going from parking spot to a feeder lane.
Deal Fanatic
Jul 13, 2009
5078 posts
3324 upvotes
waterloong wrote: I didnt honk since I didnt think it could happen. He drives a recent model of a high end brand, which should be equipped with rear camera and parking sensor. Plus, there is always the mirror.
In general, I avoid honking people. Because I feel it is disturbing and could make newbies nervous and apply gas instead of brake. Maybe I should start to honk more
Honking is for safety. It alerts people when used properly and appropriately.

Rear cameras and sensors are not replacements for sound judgement and situational awareness. The human is the weakest link when it comes to automotive safety.
[OP]
Newbie
Aug 16, 2018
11 posts
3 upvotes
hightech wrote: waterloong

What gear did you tell the insurance company when you called in? All calls are recorded so if you change your story mid way, you lose the credibility factor.
I told them reverse and I didn't plan to lie anyway.
Last edited by waterloong on Jul 2nd, 2020 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deal Addict
Jul 17, 2003
1347 posts
230 upvotes
Toronto
hightech wrote: waterloong

What gear did you tell the insurance company when you called in? All calls are recorded so if you change your story mid way, you lose the credibility factor.
He doesn't need to change his story. He can be in reverse gear and stopped for 5 seconds. He just needs to quote the fault determination rule 16 (4) and say he was in the feeder lane, and the other car was coming into the feeder lane. It is based on where your car was and who has right of way --> car in feeder lane has right of way.

If they don't agree, then escalate to a manager. then to the insurance company's ombudsman. and if still no good, then escalate to the Ontario Insurance Ombudsman. https://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/en/insurance ... 05_96.aspx
Deal Addict
Sep 8, 2017
4627 posts
4880 upvotes
GTA
Let's see the dashcam footage.

The drawing doesn't make complete sense. There are very few parking lots where you could be completely perpendicular to the laneway while backing into a spot.

And what does "head" mean? The front of the cars? The directions you guys were looking?

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