Real Estate

Pattie Lovett-Reid: "Morneau should be cautious in helping millennials buy homes. Owning a home is not a right!"

  • Last Updated:
  • Jul 26th, 2020 1:31 pm
Deal Fanatic
Feb 4, 2010
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VanByTheRiver wrote: They're very strongly correlated. Pretty indisputable economic fact...unless we live in a fantasy world where the price to rent ratios rise indefinitely.
This post makes no sense to me. What in the world is a "economic fact"? Indisputable? According to who? You?

Bottom line housing <> home ownership no matter how much you want it to be.
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Oct 31, 2019
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hierophant wrote: This post makes no sense to me. What in the world is a "economic fact"? Indisputable? According to who? You?

Bottom line housing <> home ownership no matter how much you want it to be.
Rental rates have risen in most major cities, as have prices. Is this not true? Do you feel that cap rates can compress forever? Cap rate seems like a pretty fundamental ratio....not sure what there is to dispute there.
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Nov 22, 2017
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You know what the irony is here? The fact that it's the lax liberal immigration policy which has ballooned RE out of control. Now they are trying to fix it? It's just smoke and mirrors they'll make it worse because they have already accumulated enough assets for themselves and increasing immigration means they'll be in power forever.
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Feb 4, 2010
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Extrahard wrote: You know what the irony is here? The fact that it's the lax liberal immigration policy which has ballooned RE out of control. Now they are trying to fix it? It's just smoke and mirrors they'll make it worse because they have already accumulated enough assets for themselves and increasing immigration means they'll be in power forever.
Ah yes, like everything else, let's blame immigrants for this too. What a narrow-minded view given Canada's low birthrate :rolleyes:

However, I do believe that foreign investors are jacking up the prices - I don't believe non-Canadian residents should be allowed to buy residential homes. If your kid is going to school in Canada and is on a student visa, you don't need to buy them a home.
Deal Expert
Feb 29, 2008
21713 posts
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Tarrana & The Ri…
Extrahard wrote: You know what the irony is here? The fact that it's the lax liberal immigration policy which has ballooned RE out of control. Now they are trying to fix it? It's just smoke and mirrors they'll make it worse because they have already accumulated enough assets for themselves and increasing immigration means they'll be in power forever.
When in doubt, blame immigration, I guess.
Sr. Member
May 29, 2020
890 posts
1662 upvotes
The fix is simple, build, build, build. It's good for the economy and it keeps prices in check. Ridiculous bureaucracy and NIMBYs in cities like Vancouver are the problem, the fed needs to step in and smack them with some common sense.
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Apr 5, 2013
5810 posts
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keenland
pizzaclown wrote: Lmao yes going out for drinks, working out, and having a new job. We simply must protect millennials from themselves.

Seriously, you're listing a bunch of shit that's just living a normal life like generations before us have been able to do without crippling debt, stagnating wages, and multiple global crises. What's next? Being mad that someone has an iPhone when they could have a rotary landline powered by the donkey that powers their flour mill?
very untrue...
I am in ,my 50's

comparing the current generations finances to someone in my age is not a great comparison but actually a great excuse..

growing up as a younger person, my monthly expenses were a little cheaper...

no car payment, as no young person ever qualified for that kind of debt...you bought and drove a beater with cheap insurance..
no monthly cell phone bill
no internet bill
no electronic/iphone expenses
no other video /gaming hard monthly expenses to take your money ...only expenses were booze and drugs...leaves a lot nmore disposable income to save and apply to mortgage..

NO credit cards as they barely existed

my friends son (22 years old) is your typical millennial...between car phone and other luxuries...his nut is about $1200 month just for his "normal" life...kid pays no rent and maybe pulls 1500 month...

this is typical currently and cannot be compared to 40 years ago as life and expectations and appearances have changed dramatically
Jr. Member
Mar 23, 2015
157 posts
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Toronto, ON
cardguy wrote: very untrue...
I am in ,my 50's

comparing the current generations finances to someone in my age is not a great comparison but actually a great excuse..

growing up as a younger person, my monthly expenses were a little cheaper...

no car payment, as no young person ever qualified for that kind of debt...you bought and drove a beater with cheap insurance..
no monthly cell phone bill
no internet bill
no electronic/iphone expenses
no other video /gaming hard monthly expenses to take your money ...only expenses were booze and drugs...leaves a lot nmore disposable income to save and apply to mortgage..

NO credit cards as they barely existed

my friends son (22 years old) is your typical millennial...between car phone and other luxuries...his nut is about $1200 month just for his "normal" life...kid pays no rent and maybe pulls 1500 month...

this is typical currently and cannot be compared to 40 years ago as life and expectations and appearances have changed dramatically
I'm pretty sure you could find a friend of yours that was terrible with money at 22, so I'm not really sure what the point of this is other than highlighting that your friend raised and continues to enable their dipshit kid. Perhaps they should have raised him like a good old kid from 30 years ago and told him to:
1) Not have a cell phone (lol)
2) Not have internet (again, lol)
3) Not have a cell phone again (electronic iphone expenses?)
4) Drive the cheapest car possible and somehow don't pay insurance rates as a young driver in Ontario
5) Keep his spending to drugs and liquor (just like them good ol days, boys!)
Deal Fanatic
Oct 7, 2007
9401 posts
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clydelee2020 wrote: Millenials all want to own a home because they know that life is just more enjoyable when you have that security of home ownership. However, you cant ignore the fact that millenials are constantly self bombarded with images of their "friends" buying houses/condos, going on exotic vacations/weekend getaways, having big weddings/elaborate gender reveal parties, eating at nice restaurants, going for drinks, showing off their new cars, showing off their sneaker collection/handbag haul, their new boyfriend/girlfriend, their fitness progress/drastic weight loss, flaunting their new promotiom/new job, their concert seats/Raptors playoff tickets, their children's designer outfits etc. Basically they want tell everyone,"Hey guys, look at me! I'm doing well!"
I used to feel sorry for the millennials who couldn't afford a home and used to play the violin for them until I heard their complaints in their own words. It turns out many of them think that they should have a home but shouldn't have to pay for one because most homeowners bought their houses for "nothing" compared to today. They seem to forget how low wages were at the time people bought, how high interest rates were at the time people bought, how humble the houses were compared to today, and how hard those same people worked to save money to afford a house while raising a family and keeping up with all of the rest of their financial obligations. I don't think home ownership was ever easy for anyone no matter who they are or when they bought (unless you're an elite) but somehow many in the younger generation feel enttiled to a free home worth millions of dollars. And this isn't about owing a home but being gifted something worth a lot so they can start "playing" the property market. I just found this revelation repugnant and unfortunate.
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Nov 5, 2018
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Toronto
choclover wrote: I used to feel sorry for the millennials who couldn't afford a home and used to play the violin for them until I heard their complaints in their own words. It turns out many of them think that they should have a home but shouldn't have to pay for one because most homeowners bought their houses for "nothing" compared to today. They seem to forget how low wages were at the time people bought, how high interest rates were at the time people bought, how humble the houses were compared to today, and how hard those same people worked to save money to afford a house while raising a family and keeping up with all of the rest of their financial obligations. I don't think home ownership was ever easy for anyone no matter who they are or when they bought (unless you're an elite) but somehow many in the younger generation feel enttiled to a free home worth millions of dollars. And this isn't about owing a home but being gifted something worth a lot so they can start "playing" the property market. I just found this revelation repugnant and unfortunate.
The funny thing is that if you even gave these millennials homes they would not be able to carry them. Property taxes + Utilities + upkeep...in a few weeks these millennials would be begin crying, "GIVE ME BACK MY CONDO RENTAL!!!"
Called the bottom.
Sr. Member
Jul 18, 2020
753 posts
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CondoMan98 wrote: The funny thing is that if you even gave these millennials homes they would not be able to carry them. Property taxes + Utilities + upkeep...in a few weeks these millennials would be begin crying, "GIVE ME BACK MY CONDO RENTAL!!!"
This is quite true, my parents are retired, just their property tax alone cost them $12000 each year and I am paying close to 8K in property tax each year. This doesn't even include hydro, lawn care and other maintenance stuff. Even if house value go down these fix cost will always become more not less.
Deal Addict
Jul 3, 2007
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Toronto
CondoMan98 wrote: The funny thing is that if you even gave these millennials homes they would not be able to carry them. Property taxes + Utilities + upkeep...in a few weeks these millennials would be begin crying, "GIVE ME BACK MY CONDO RENTAL!!!"
exactly, bcuz there goes the $8 sbux lattes , and $25 skip the dishes and grubhub orders. etc....
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Nov 5, 2018
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joepipe wrote: exactly, bcuz there goes the $8 sbux lattes , and $25 skip the dishes and grubhub orders. etc....
There is a secret to being rich and it is to have low overhead. The idiots you see driving fancy cars and going on fancy vacations with fancy clothes etc. (unless they are the ultra rich) are usually not rich. They are just spending all of their income.

I typically make all of my coffee at home (sometimes I grab a Starbucks but very rarely), I do not wear fancy clothes (although I treat myself on occasion), I do not eat out all that much.

It was not my idea to be a minimalist as I have borrowed many ideas from other very intelligent people on Youtube. I got rid of my social media presence and I focus on saving and investing and reading books on personal finance. There is no time like the present.
Called the bottom.
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Oct 7, 2007
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CondoMan98 wrote: The funny thing is that if you even gave these millennials homes they would not be able to carry them. Property taxes + Utilities + upkeep...in a few weeks these millennials would be begin crying, "GIVE ME BACK MY CONDO RENTAL!!!"
This is actually a very IMPORTANT and TRUE point. The property taxes alone on a home where millennials want to live is very high and needs to be paid with AFTER-TAX dollars. And in my experience those property taxes have been increasing significantly each year with our latest increase being in the double-digits YOY. I am not sure that the same millennials who complain about not being able to afford a house would have the discipline and be responsible enough to make the property tax payments alone. My bet is that many of them would try to defer these and/or finance these through their HELOC because they wouldn't want to cut back on their flagrant lifestyle.

Most of us are not born to be movie stars or live lifestyles of the rich and famous. So, thinking you really can live in a fantasy world is going to be a rude awakening for many such people. The same people also need to think about saving for a rainy day fund and retirement.

The government is not capable of solving problems let alone people's financial problems and if they promise such they should be asked for more details to see what their true intentions are. I also don't know if it is realistic to expect the government to solve these problems. What the government needs to do is focus on its core responsibilities and SERVE the PEOPLE IT REPRESENTS before all others. As soon as the government starts to serve outside interests (as well their own personal interests) using taxpayer dollars is the day our country is in big trouble.
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Jul 18, 2020
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joepipe wrote: exactly, bcuz there goes the $8 sbux lattes , and $25 skip the dishes and grubhub orders. etc....
+ a new car lease every 36-48 months, you need a good looking car to pick up chicks.
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Jan 5, 2020
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cardguy wrote: very untrue...
I am in ,my 50's

comparing the current generations finances to someone in my age is not a great comparison but actually a great excuse..

growing up as a younger person, my monthly expenses were a little cheaper...

no car payment, as no young person ever qualified for that kind of debt...you bought and drove a beater with cheap insurance..
no monthly cell phone bill
no internet bill
no electronic/iphone expenses
no other video /gaming hard monthly expenses to take your money ...only expenses were booze and drugs...leaves a lot nmore disposable income to save and apply to mortgage..

NO credit cards as they barely existed

my friends son (22 years old) is your typical millennial...between car phone and other luxuries...his nut is about $1200 month just for his "normal" life...kid pays no rent and maybe pulls 1500 month...

this is typical currently and cannot be compared to 40 years ago as life and expectations and appearances have changed dramatically
A 22 year old is not a millenial. He would be considered a Gen Z.

I feel a lot of people dont realize how old millenials are. Some of them are as old as 40 and could be your boss.

As a millenial myself, I am quite triggered by a lot of these comments generalizing the behavior of people based on their age. Most of the millenials I know are super successful and if anything, the older generations feel threatened by them.
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Jul 9, 2012
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Pluto
Owning a home is not a right.. that is correct..

but perhaps someone should tell home owners that neverending profit on housing isn't either.. so if they want to play the system then millenials can play it too to fight back
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Nov 5, 2018
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Purgatory wrote: Owning a home is not a right.. that is correct..

but perhaps someone should tell home owners that neverending profit on housing isn't either.. so if they want to play the system then millenials can play it too to fight back
Housing has costs too. It isn't without headaches and never-ending maintenance. And it isn't never-ending profit...that is just how bears and people who have no willpower to save will phrase it.

Fighting back by millennials? It is more like leftists who just want to steal money from those who already have houses. I have a better idea for people who are jealous! It is called saving a portion of your income and then buying a condo in the city or a house in the burbs. Is it that hard for you guys? It is called DISCIPLINE!!!

SAVE! DO NOT STEAL!
Called the bottom.
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Oct 7, 2007
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TheSpaceMonkey wrote: The fix is simple, build, build, build. It's good for the economy and it keeps prices in check. Ridiculous bureaucracy and NIMBYs in cities like Vancouver are the problem, the fed needs to step in and smack them with some common sense.
How many places have been "built, built, built" in Vancouver over the last 10 years? And how has this helped with affordability? There is so much more to the story than those who scream for MOAR housing. What if the massive number of places that are being built and sold by developers are actually being built, marketed and sold to people who are not local and are not even from Canada? Is that okay as long as they continue to "build, build, build"? It seemed to me that housing affordability was most in check and homelessness was the least problem (in Vancouver) before anyone started messing with any of this. Every thing was driven strictly by market forces for developers to take FULL RISK and all of any reward. Once government started making deals with developers outside of the public's vantage point, things changed big time. And as home ownership continues to become more and more expensive, it means current home owners end up selling because they can't afford to keep paying for the costs of home ownership, renters suffer because rent gets more expensive, and anyone looking to become a homeowner is also set further back. None of the taxpayers that make up the local economy win.
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Jun 14, 2018
1368 posts
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choclover wrote: How many places have been "built, built, built" in Vancouver over the last 10 years? And how has this helped with affordability? There is so much more to the story than those who scream for MOAR housing. What if the massive number of places that are being built and sold by developers are actually being built, marketed and sold to people who are not local and are not even from Canada? Is that okay as long as they continue to "build, build, build"? It seemed to me that housing affordability was most in check and homelessness was the least problem (in Vancouver) before anyone started messing with any of this. Every thing was driven strictly by market forces for developers to take FULL RISK and all of any reward. Once government started making deals with developers outside of the public's vantage point, things changed big time. And as home ownership continues to become more and more expensive, it means current home owners end up selling because they can't afford to keep paying for the costs of home ownership, renters suffer because rent gets more expensive, and anyone looking to become a homeowner is also set further back. None of the taxpayers that make up the local economy win.
Well if they can't afford to live in a detached house in Vancouver, then they should sell and move to a more affordable area. Owning a home in Vancouver isn't a right. That's what you like to say about millenials, right?

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