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Performance Improvement Plan in bank - this is the way out?

  • Last Updated:
  • Feb 24th, 2020 9:30 pm
[OP]
Member
Jan 23, 2012
455 posts
249 upvotes
Aurora, ON

Performance Improvement Plan in bank - this is the way out?

Hi guys.
I am working as an IT person in one of the largest banks, and was advised that I am going to be put on Performance improvement program.

From what I understand, this usually does mean that they will be trying to get rid of me formally?

I am not getting along very well with my team and manager.

I lean towards getting out before they fire me.

Any experience with such a program?
80 replies
Member
Jun 14, 2016
393 posts
179 upvotes
Calgary
Yes, they've begun the process. If you fail to meet the objectives of the plan, they use it as grounds to terminate your employment.

I'd look for employment now. Seems like they might be out to get you.
[OP]
Member
Jan 23, 2012
455 posts
249 upvotes
Aurora, ON
Yeah. I read the map.
Thanks
Deal Fanatic
Dec 5, 2006
8945 posts
4248 upvotes
Markham
Its a nice way saying give you 3 months to look for jobs
Sr. Member
Jan 28, 2017
635 posts
711 upvotes
Markham
yes, you should start looking around yesterday. whether you meet the performance plan or not, life will be miserable at the office and youre going to want to leave.
Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
15459 posts
8370 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
The only issue with looking for a position when on a PIP is if the potential employer reaches out to your current employer and is informed about the PIP and the current actions which unless you informed the potential employer beforehand may sink your chances at the new firm... and if you tell them beforehand, they might end the process right there and then.

So you really have two options, get a position BEFORE the PIP is in place so that there is nothing formally on your record except your previous reviews OR stick it out through the PIP and basically suck it up so that you meet all of the end points of the PIP and thereby removing any 'cause' they might have to fire you. If you are put on the PIP and are terminated later, you might have grounds for a wrongful dismissal case especially if you meet the end points as listed in the PIP.
[OP]
Member
Jan 23, 2012
455 posts
249 upvotes
Aurora, ON
craftsman wrote: The only issue with looking for a position when on a PIP is if the potential employer reaches out to your current employer and is informed about the PIP and the current actions which unless you informed the potential employer beforehand may sink your chances at the new firm... and if you tell them beforehand, they might end the process right there and then.

So you really have two options, get a position BEFORE the PIP is in place so that there is nothing formally on your record except your previous reviews OR stick it out through the PIP and basically suck it up so that you meet all of the end points of the PIP and thereby removing any 'cause' they might have to fire you. If you are put on the PIP and are terminated later, you might have grounds for a wrongful dismissal case especially if you meet the end points as listed in the PIP.
The problem is that I lost any desire to work here.
Don't want to stay.
Super toxic environment.

And at the same rate I don't want to quit since I will be left without pay.

I have friends who work here and I can give their reference instead of my boss.
Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
15459 posts
8370 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
doctor80 wrote: The problem is that I lost any desire to work here.
Don't want to stay.
Super toxic environment.

And at the same rate I don't want to quit since I will be left without pay.

I have friends who work here and I can give their reference instead of my boss.
I'm not saying to STAY there for the long term... I'm saying stay there until the PIP is finished so that it's not overhanging any potential offers you might get afterwards - ie play nice until the PIP is completed and then get the hell out. You'll probably get better opportunites for higher wages if you aren't in the middle of a PIP.

References from friends only mean so much... any good potential employer would ask for your boss's contact information and if you won't/can't provide it, they would want to know why and that why better be a good why.

Besides, there's a chance that the potential employer won't talk to you boss but just contact your HR department in order to confirm employment (ie that you actually work there), position, and remumeration. It's possible that they would also talk about your current status of being under a PIP which isn't good.
Sr. Member
Nov 22, 2017
644 posts
372 upvotes
doctor80 wrote: The problem is that I lost any desire to work here.
Don't want to stay.
Super toxic environment.

And at the same rate I don't want to quit since I will be left without pay.

I have friends who work here and I can give their reference instead of my boss.
You shouldn't have waited until the PIP to look for a job. But in this case there's nothing you can do. Start applying now and get co-workers to vouch for your experience at the place.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 22, 2015
5704 posts
5120 upvotes
doctor80 wrote: The problem is that I lost any desire to work here.
Don't want to stay.
Super toxic environment.

And at the same rate I don't want to quit since I will be left without pay.

I have friends who work here and I can give their reference instead of my boss.
Well, start looking I guess...once the PIP starts, it will be 1000% more toxic. Hope you like role playing and making calls with someone watching and coaching you all day long :(
Sr. Member
Jan 28, 2017
635 posts
711 upvotes
Markham
craftsman wrote: The only issue with looking for a position when on a PIP is if the potential employer reaches out to your current employer and is informed about the PIP and the current actions which unless you informed the potential employer beforehand may sink your chances at the new firm... and if you tell them beforehand, they might end the process right there and then.

So you really have two options, get a position BEFORE the PIP is in place so that there is nothing formally on your record except your previous reviews OR stick it out through the PIP and basically suck it up so that you meet all of the end points of the PIP and thereby removing any 'cause' they might have to fire you. If you are put on the PIP and are terminated later, you might have grounds for a wrongful dismissal case especially if you meet the end points as listed in the PIP.
I'm assuming OP is currently at a big 5 bank. I don't think future employers can legally contact his boss, group or HR team about anything during the interview process (PIP, salary, etc.), unless they know them at a personal level, which is possible. Even if he gets an offer, pretty sure new employer can only verify length of employment he listed on resume.

At the end of the day, it's all about how you position and sell yourself in the interview. Easier said than done, but filter out the toxicity and focus on your next step
Sr. Member
Jan 28, 2017
635 posts
711 upvotes
Markham
doctor80 wrote: The problem is that I lost any desire to work here.
Don't want to stay.
Super toxic environment.

And at the same rate I don't want to quit since I will be left without pay.

I have friends who work here and I can give their reference instead of my boss.
Stick it out as long as you can. Even if they fire you, pretty sure you will still get severance as no company will want to deal with the slightest risk of lawsuit.
Deal Fanatic
Nov 22, 2015
5704 posts
5120 upvotes
bear20 wrote: Stick it out as long as you can. Even if they fire you, pretty sure you will still get severance as no company will want to deal with the slightest risk of lawsuit.
There's usually no severance pay if you fail to meet the conditions of a PIP. They will let you go with cause.
Sr. Member
Sep 28, 2013
669 posts
364 upvotes
craftsman wrote: The only issue with looking for a position when on a PIP is if the potential employer reaches out to your current employer and is informed about the PIP and the current actions which unless you informed the potential employer beforehand may sink your chances at the new firm... and if you tell them beforehand, they might end the process right there and then.

So you really have two options, get a position BEFORE the PIP is in place so that there is nothing formally on your record except your previous reviews OR stick it out through the PIP and basically suck it up so that you meet all of the end points of the PIP and thereby removing any 'cause' they might have to fire you. If you are put on the PIP and are terminated later, you might have grounds for a wrongful dismissal case especially if you meet the end points as listed in the PIP.
Pretty sure that's highly illegal for an employer to disclose anything about performance. Just whether you are currently employed or not. If you find out they disclosed you were on a PIP to a prospective employer, you'd be on the winning side of a lawsuit.
[OP]
Member
Jan 23, 2012
455 posts
249 upvotes
Aurora, ON
Extrahard wrote: You shouldn't have waited until the PIP to look for a job. But in this case there's nothing you can do. Start applying now and get co-workers to vouch for your experience at the place.
The whole problem my friend is that they were silent the entire year and no feedback was provided.
And only couple of weeks ago my manager informed me.
How I even suppose to know without receiving feedback? What kind of practice is it, to wait for the entire year and then tell.
My gut feeling says that my team doesn't like me and I feel it.
Even though that I tried to integrate to their culture (I am white caucasian), it's really hard if you are the only one among same mentality group.
Deal Expert
Jan 27, 2006
15459 posts
8370 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
angrybanker wrote: Pretty sure that's highly illegal for an employer to disclose anything about performance. Just whether you are currently employed or not. If you find out they disclosed you were on a PIP to a prospective employer, you'd be on the winning side of a lawsuit.
Actually it's not. hence the use of reference checks with managers - there would be little reason to talk to an potential employee's manager other than to talk about their job performance. As an FYI, here's a link to the Government of Canada's website on Structured Reference Checks - Structured reference checks. In that document on page 6 of the .pdf file in a section called "What types of questions to ask?" states -
Questions about developmental needs. In order to bypass the reluctance sometimes expressed by referees to report unfavourable information about an applicant, questions on developmental needs can be asked. For example, “Are you aware of any areas that could be developed in relation to the competency?” might be asked. By emphasizing that “even the strongest applicants have improvement areas”, referees are typically more comfortable providing statements in this area. Nonetheless, questioning about more sensitive information, such as potentially-inappropriate work-related behaviour, should occur later in the interview, once sufficient rapport has been reached between the referee and the reference checker.
If it was illegal, the Government of Canada would not be instructing their staff to do in a document that is easily available on the internet.

What has been happening in the US, not necessarily in Canada, is employers are instructing their managers not to give references, not because it's illegal, but because it may open the company up to lawsuits from the employee's new employer IF something disclosed wasn't what it was - ie said employee was wondering and hard working when in fact they were always late for work and never got anything done.
Deal Addict
Jan 1, 2017
1294 posts
1139 upvotes
doctor80 wrote: The whole problem my friend is that they were silent the entire year and no feedback was provided.
And only couple of weeks ago my manager informed me.
How I even suppose to know without receiving feedback? What kind of practice is it, to wait for the entire year and then tell.
My gut feeling says that my team doesn't like me and I feel it.
Even though that I tried to integrate to their culture (I am white caucasian), it's really hard if you are the only one among same mentality group.
What the hell are you talking about? What does race has to do with integrating within the working environment of a Big 5 bank?

How long have you been at a big 5 bank and on this team?
Sr. Member
Sep 28, 2013
669 posts
364 upvotes
craftsman wrote: Actually it's not. hence the use of reference checks with managers - there would be little reason to talk to an potential employee's manager other than to talk about their job performance. As an FYI, here's a link to the Government of Canada's website on Structured Reference Checks - Structured reference checks. In that document on page 6 of the .pdf file in a section called "What types of questions to ask?" states -


If it was illegal, the Government of Canada would not be instructing their staff to do in a document that is easily available on the internet.

What has been happening in the US, not necessarily in Canada, is employers are instructing their managers not to give references, not because it's illegal, but because it may open the company up to lawsuits from the employee's new employer IF something disclosed wasn't what it was - ie said employee was wondering and hard working when in fact they were always late for work and never got anything done.
Good call, my mistake.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 5, 2006
8945 posts
4248 upvotes
Markham
ProductGuy wrote:
What the hell are you talking about? What does race has to do with integrating within the working environment of a Big 5 bank?

How long have you been at a big 5 bank and on this team?
If happens in alot work space. People don't say it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Not saying it happened in OP team, just say in general

Just like we are proud of being Canadian doesn't mean there is no certain tension to certain race due to recent virus and a lot of them are Canadian
[OP]
Member
Jan 23, 2012
455 posts
249 upvotes
Aurora, ON
ProductGuy wrote: What the hell are you talking about? What does race has to do with integrating within the working environment of a Big 5 bank?

How long have you been at a big 5 bank and on this team?
Let's not go there.
All what I say is, if you are the only A nationality among majority of B nationality, the work culture becomes like the later.
That's a fact.
This has nothing to do with race. It has to do with mentality that is different.
I am again feeling isolated, despite being trying to get along with my team.
That's all.
Therefore I think that mixed environment where there is no dominant culture would be most practical.
Anyways, I made my conclusions and will continue with my career further.

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