Careers

Performance Improvement Plan in bank - this is the way out?

  • Last Updated:
  • Feb 24th, 2020 9:30 pm
Sr. Member
Feb 19, 2017
548 posts
282 upvotes
angrybanker wrote: Pretty sure that's highly illegal for an employer to disclose anything about performance. Just whether you are currently employed or not. If you find out they disclosed you were on a PIP to a prospective employer, you'd be on the winning side of a lawsuit.
and this is exactly what's wrong with the job market nowadays, where subpar performers get unlimited chances.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
52736 posts
17509 upvotes
bear20 wrote: Stick it out as long as you can. Even if they fire you, pretty sure you will still get severance as no company will want to deal with the slightest risk of lawsuit.
Yes, they will likely pay you one month for each year of service.

Only quit when you find a decent replacement job.

Many people know these PIP's can be gamed. Find a few backers at your workplace to be used as reference.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
52736 posts
17509 upvotes
Walch1102 wrote: and this is exactly what's wrong with the job market nowadays, where subpar performers get unlimited chances.
You don't even know if they are really subpar or just victims of a broken performance appraisal system.
Deal Guru
Jan 27, 2006
13114 posts
6170 upvotes
Vancouver, BC
alanbrenton wrote: You don't even know if they are really subpar or just victims of a broken performance appraisal system.
Exactly. I've seen plenty of examples where the performance appraisal systems in large corporate environments are gamed by managers who use it to reward their favorite employees without any regard for fairness to anyone else. After all, it's a 'subjective' opinion so the 'standards' are what ever the manager believes they should be for each employee.
Deal Guru
User avatar
Dec 23, 2003
13941 posts
2414 upvotes
Toronto
People don't go on a PIP unless you royally screw up or just a poor attitude.

The 2 options I would suggest would be:

- Do some soul searching to see where you f'd up and try to improve your ways
- When they fire you (and it will be soon), take the time to evaluate where you can improve.

This is from a person who has worked in the Big 5 banks for well over 15 years. I have put people on PIP's and the environment can be challenging at times. You mention toxic? That is a pretty broad statement and a strong word. Can you give specifics?

If you really worked hard during this time and feel you are getting screwed over, I would contact an employment lawyer as they can give you pointers on if you have a case related on constructive dismissal. If you have email correspondences, it would be handy to keep copies of these should the need arise.
Feedback:Howard Forums Ebay RedFlagDeals Heatware

Car Batteries - FAQ, General Information, Tips & Tricks

My Cell Phone Providers: Koodo Mobile and Zoomer Wireless
Sr. Member
Feb 19, 2017
548 posts
282 upvotes
alanbrenton wrote: You don't even know if they are really subpar or just victims of a broken performance appraisal system.
Have you seen his posts??
Excuses and tone of a classic under-performer.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
52736 posts
17509 upvotes
Walch1102 wrote: Have you seen his posts??
Excuses and tone of a classic under-performer.
Your post was not about the OP but was a generalization though.

How do you know he is an under-performer? Anyone who bullies direct reports can still exude a lot of these soft skills because he/she is the hunter and the other is the prey:
https://www.thebalancecareers.com/list- ... ls-2063770

Communication - this is easy when you just lists all the bad things about someone and accidentally forget the positives
Leadership - no conflict to resolve or manage, easy to give clear feedback, pretending to be coaching when more screwing the direct report will come along
Positive Attitude - hey, this is easy when the direct report is on the defense
Teamwork- take credit for everything during management meetings

You get the idea.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
52736 posts
17509 upvotes
OP, don't go with a demand letter from an employment lawyer (nothing will happen). Don't put any lawyer on retainer or you will get royally screwed. Go with one who will work on contingency (say 30% of the incremental improvement) and who will submit the claim to court.

Any of the Big 5 bank will pay a bit more than the initial severance package.
[OP]
Member
Jan 23, 2012
415 posts
110 upvotes
Aurora, ON
Walch1102 wrote: Have you seen his posts??
Excuses and tone of a classic under-performer.
Excuse me, but do you know me personally? Do you know the situation? Or you just this type of arrogant people that jump into conclusions right away?
Regardless, you are entitled to your opinion, so do I.
[OP]
Member
Jan 23, 2012
415 posts
110 upvotes
Aurora, ON
hightech wrote: People don't go on a PIP unless you royally screw up or just a poor attitude.

The 2 options I would suggest would be:

- Do some soul searching to see where you f'd up and try to improve your ways
- When they fire you (and it will be soon), take the time to evaluate where you can improve.

This is from a person who has worked in the Big 5 banks for well over 15 years. I have put people on PIP's and the environment can be challenging at times. You mention toxic? That is a pretty broad statement and a strong word. Can you give specifics?

If you really worked hard during this time and feel you are getting screwed over, I would contact an employment lawyer as they can give you pointers on if you have a case related on constructive dismissal. If you have email correspondences, it would be handy to keep copies of these should the need arise.
Thanks for the question.
I will answer it.
Not for myself, but more for people that might encounter this situation and I hope that would help them to understand, that they are in majority of the cases are not the cause.

I am working in the big 5 for only one year.
After I passed my probation, all was good and no complaints.
I was progressing as a new employee which is understandable, since this is a learning curve.
Then after 5 months they throw me into other team as an excuse that the other team needs help with their piloting software.
I was sitting 4 months (!) In the other team , and no matter how hard I was asking to provide me work, accesses, I was ignored. I was eagerly trying to get access , and was only provided after 3 months, what's a joke right?
I am not talking about all my emails to team members that I sent, asking for explanations about particular information, all was ignored.
Because they put me in a co op position (didn't have quotas probably to hire co op) and why would anyone spend time on me if I would leave anyways?

Then on September I came back to my original team, and discovered that our application is crashing every 2 days, which of course went to upper management, and since then the manager changed his tone towards everyone, but the breaking point was when I went with initiative and implemented a script that did work , but was throwing an error.
The error was pretty simple, was related to permissions on .profile in Unix. But I did not know then. I am not Unix administrator bus a regular Unix user.
My manager insulted me in public chat with all the coworkers, he demonstrated this intentionally.
At that point I lost my trust and desire to take any initiative.
And then came up my review, which I scored as SOLID .
But on the other hand he put all my mistakes as my personal failures.
Mistakes that are mistakes of someone new, that doesn't have experience in such a big banking environment. Those were not mistakes of neglectance, but lack of experience.
Even though none of them caused even a single moment of outage.
They just were escalated most likely and you know the drill.

At this point I lost any interest and desire to work here, and funny enough, but currently preparing for my RHCSA exam :)

What i wanted to say, is that the conclusion is this:
You need to be happy at your work.
If you are not, then leave.
We only live once.
I maybe lost in a battle, but not in the war:)
Good luck to all us dedicated and hardworking people that are seeking fair recognition for their value and hard working ethic!
[OP]
Member
Jan 23, 2012
415 posts
110 upvotes
Aurora, ON
alanbrenton wrote: OP, don't go with a demand letter from an employment lawyer (nothing will happen). Don't put any lawyer on retainer or you will get royally screwed. Go with one who will work on contingency (say 30% of the incremental improvement) and who will submit the claim to court.

Any of the Big 5 bank will pay a bit more than the initial severance package.
I will not go towards this path.
I will play their game, and meanwhile will boost my IT skills, and then leave to a better company with a direction and clear goals.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Apr 21, 2004
52736 posts
17509 upvotes
doctor80 wrote: I will not go towards this path.
I will play their game, and meanwhile will boost my IT skills, and then leave to a better company with a direction and clear goals.
Of course. You only engage the employment lawyer once you are provided a package.

If you can find a new job, even better.

Good luck.
Deal Addict
User avatar
Jan 25, 2004
4004 posts
2908 upvotes
Ottawa
alanbrenton wrote: Don't put any lawyer on retainer or you will get royally screwed. Go with one who will work on contingency (say 30% of the incremental improvement) and who will submit the claim to court.
I don't necessarily agree. As someone who went through almost exactly what the OP went through, I put a lawyer on retainer to find out EXACTLY what my rights were in the workplace (You can google and talk to the armchair quarterbacks on RFD all day long, it doesn't mean shit until you talk to an actual expert). My lawyer helped me draft communications to my employer, was willing to work on contingency when we eventually sued, and was a huge help removing some of the stress. I did not get royally screwed in the process at all, and it was well worth the money spent.

@doctor80 don't be afraid to talk to a lawyer, ESPECIALLY if you have tenure. You're now at the stage where they are monitoring every little thing you do, and they could very well be trying to terminate you with cause, and you're now dealing with feedback like "just quit".

Top