• Last Updated:
  • Feb 28th, 2018 5:59 pm
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[OP]
Newbie
Jan 10, 2018
6 posts
3 upvotes

Personal Emergency Leave

How many of you have had employees trying to get their 2 paid days already? Just got into February and all of our employees have tried to use them in January. At first, I was denying as not approved reasons (rain day, no work, time off to take wife to airport) but now I'm just letting any reason to go through as they're going to keep trying.
Last edited by MusketeerMom on Feb 5th, 2018 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
16 replies
Penalty Box
Jun 24, 2015
4963 posts
1495 upvotes
0 downvotes
Just approve them, There should be no reason to deny a floater or personal day to your employees unless you want to be one of "those" kind of bosses. A great boss makes a great team, do you want a great team? if not they will screw you over in the long run and call in sick and get the day off anyway and bring a doctors note the next day and just so you know that is NOT grounds for discipline and you have to suck it up buttercup.
Hi
Deal Guru
User avatar
Jul 12, 2003
11754 posts
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Toronto
OP, what is your concerns that your employees are using their personal days?

January is typically harder for employers after the slowing down December (for most industry), and back to work and work full month.
Winter times, shorter day light hours is also depressing. It is not unreasonably that they want to take a personal day off to refresh themselves or to do whatever they have to do.
Retired Forum Moderator February 2009 - June 2015
Sr. Member
Aug 25, 2006
809 posts
260 upvotes
I wouldn't worry about personal days too much -- wait till you have to pay your PT workers for stat holidays -- based on new rules, they will be paid their full day from every PT job they have....
Member
Jun 2, 2012
327 posts
310 upvotes
NORTH YORK
I am a little confused by OP’s post. How can there be unapproved reasons for a personal day? Then it’s not a personal day at all.

If anything, you should not even be asking why they need a personal day. If they are contractually entitled to personal days, then frankly it is none of your business as to why they need to take a personal day. That’s the whole point of a personal day; to take a day to do something they need to/want to do during business hours.

Taking a loved one to the airport is as good a reason as any to take a personal day. I have to say, if I got denied a personal day for one of the items you listed above, I would call in sick, take the day and spend whatever free time I had left that day mass mailing resumes. ETA: esp. considering how arbitrary your personal day policy is. Denied in January but approved in February because I said so?!

OP, what would be an approved reason in your mind?
Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
12337 posts
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Edmonton
gemenichic wrote: I am a little confused by OP’s post. How can there be unapproved reasons for a personal day? Then it’s not a personal day at all.

If anything, you should not even be asking why they need a personal day. If they are contractually entitled to personal days, then frankly it is none of your business as to why they need to take a personal day. That’s the whole point of a personal day; to take a day to do something they need to/want to do during business hours.

Taking a loved one to the airport is as good a reason as any to take a personal day. I have to say, if I got denied a personal day for one of the items you listed above, I would call in sick, take the day and spend whatever free time I had left that day mass mailing resumes. ETA: esp. considering how arbitrary your personal day policy is. Denied in January but approved in February because I said so?!

OP, what would be an approved reason in your mind?
This.

OP, the only reason you should be denying a personal day is because you need x number of people in the office to make sure stuff is getting done, and you don't have the warm bodies to fill the chairs. Other than that, what an employee uses a personal day for is up to them. If they want to use it because their favorite hockey team is playing an afternoon game, why do you care? It just means they won't have a personal day later in the year to take off.

Do you have them justify why they want holidays, or where they're going on them?

C
Jr. Member
Oct 29, 2009
151 posts
31 upvotes
Seems to me that the OP is referring to the 2 new paid "Personal Emergency Days" that came into effect January 2018.
Deal Guru
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Mar 9, 2007
13977 posts
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Think of the Childre…
For new employees, yea?
Anxious wrote: Seems to me that the OP is referring to the 2 new paid "Personal Emergency Days" that came into effect January 2018.

WOULD SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
Member
Jun 2, 2012
327 posts
310 upvotes
NORTH YORK
If the OP was referring to the new ‘Personal Emergency Leave’ then that is a different story.

OP, were you talking about the Personal Emergency Leave? If so, just post the actual regulation word per word and/or email it with highlights/underlines etc to employees.

If you were talking about contractual Personal days, then my post above stands.
Deal Guru
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Mar 23, 2008
12337 posts
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Edmonton
Anxious wrote: Seems to me that the OP is referring to the 2 new paid "Personal Emergency Days" that came into effect January 2018.
Then the OP might want to state that... Considering they didn't even mention a province or the "Emergency Leave" part, it seems they might get crappy advice if they provide incomplete details.

Even with that, if you look at the rules for the PEL, it's vague enough to make it worthless to quibble about (IMHO) (https://www.ontario.ca/document/your-gu ... ency-leave). Sickness for yourself and family members are straightforward enough, but they also give "Urgent Reasons", like:
•The employee’s babysitter calls in sick.
•The house of the employee’s elderly parent is broken into, and the parent is very upset and needs the employee’s help to deal with the situation.
•The employee has an appointment to meet with their child’s counsellor to discuss behavioural problems at school. The appointment could not be scheduled outside the employee’s working hours.
At that point, what are you going to do? If you block them from taking it for a "rain day", then you'll just get lots of school appointments during work hours or sick babysitters.

C
Banned
User avatar
Jun 8, 2008
3977 posts
1415 upvotes
Toronto
In another thread the OP talks about potentially closing their business down - new-stat-pay-calculation-ontario-2161883/#p28789791

So if I were one of their employees and was aware of the difficulties, I would be sure as hell taking all the days available to me now to look for a new job and if they're paid, to make sure I got paid for them.
[OP]
Newbie
Jan 10, 2018
6 posts
3 upvotes
It is Personal Emergency Leave and he is not ""one of those kind of bosses!" We are treated more than fairly - unlimited vacation weeks, days off whenever asked for, a $500 Christmas gift that we could return for cash, plus a sizeable cheque depending on years worked. His belief is that if they want the time off, just give it to them or they won't work appropriately. That being said, he has every right to tell me to deny a paid PEL day when it does not follow under the law guidelines set up. As employees, we think BONUS!! - 2 paid days and I don't have to work. Seeing the accounting side of it, as I do, the law did not think of the effect on small businesses like his and many others - this has an added cost of almost $6000.00 for these 2 days + the extra $$ needed for employer-paid CPP, EI, Employer Health Tax and WSIB for him.
Member
Jun 2, 2012
327 posts
310 upvotes
NORTH YORK
By unlimited vacation weeks and days off, I assume you mean unlimited unpaid vacation weeks and days off? Could help with over staffing during low seasons... so meh.

$500 in CASH could potentially be generous depending on the number of employees, salary and success of the business. However, it being in the form of a gift exchangeable for cash rather than straight up cash suggests that these ‘generous’ gifts are just a write off on his taxes. So not as generous as you would argue.

You are highly defensive of the owner. Are you related to him?

Regardless. There’s is no need to take offence at anonymous responses to an unclear self congratulatory post on an Internet forum about a potentially generous, potentially stingy business owner and his HR rep/accountant that makes up policies on the fly and posts said ‘because I said so’ HR policies on the Internet asking for validation from other anonymous posters for how generously you have now started to approve legally entitled to days because those pesky employees are clearly just out to scam the business and they ‘will keep trying’.
Deal Expert
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Aug 2, 2010
15193 posts
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Here 'n There
That's why I don't have employees.
Member
Dec 26, 2013
470 posts
159 upvotes
Ottawa
xcell wrote: I wouldn't worry about personal days too much -- wait till you have to pay your PT workers for stat holidays -- based on new rules, they will be paid their full day from every PT job they have....
What is the new formula for this? Shifts you worked in the previous pay divided by hours?

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