Petro-Canada no longer Top Tier certified?

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May 4th, 2019 12:13 pm

unrealdude24 [OP]: Newbie; Jul 1, 2009; 3 posts; 7 upvotes; Toronto

May 4th, 2019 12:13 pm

Petro-Canada no longer Top Tier certified?

I was looking through the list of certified Top Tier brand gas stations and Petro-Canada isn't on the list. I thought it was previously. Esso and Shell are still on the list though.

https://toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

I thought they used to have that Top Tier sticker on their pumps. Does this mean they are now using lower quality fuel without the additives to keep the engine running clean?

20 replies

May 4th, 2019 8:00 pm

vkizzle: Deal Expert; Aug 22, 2011; 35254 posts; 21232 upvotes; Center of Universe

May 4th, 2019 8:00 pm

Petro has their own additive tactrol.
Their 94 octane, is high quality fuel..."surpasses the CGSB (Canadian General Standards Board)"

May 4th, 2019 10:20 pm

EastGTARedFlagger: Penalty Box; Feb 22, 2016; 4745 posts; 4315 upvotes

May 4th, 2019 10:20 pm

They'd rather spend money on patriotic TV ads (copying Tim Horton's) than on Top Tier snake-oil "certification"...

Last edited by EastGTARedFlagger on May 7th, 2019 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

+2

May 4th, 2019 10:24 pm

burnt69: Deal Addict; Oct 6, 2015; 2463 posts; 1367 upvotes

May 4th, 2019 10:24 pm

No it just means that they didn't pay whatever bribe the "top tier gas" company wanted for so-called "certification".

All fuel in North America is manufactured to meet relevant ASTM standards and is perfectly interchangeable. Refineries in a given area serve all gas stations, not just the ones bearing their specific brand. Proprietary branding (ie: "Synergy", "V-Power", etc.) is basically a scam.

+5

May 4th, 2019 11:14 pm

unrealdude24 [OP]: Newbie; Jul 1, 2009; 3 posts; 7 upvotes; Toronto

May 4th, 2019 11:14 pm

According to consumer reports, there is a definite difference between Top Tier and other fuels without additives shown experimentally:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-mai ... tra-price/

Are you suggesting that all gas stations in Canada are equivalent to ones that are Top Tier certified in the states and elsewhere? This would imply Canadian gasoline is held to a higher standard than everywhere else.

+5

May 5th, 2019 12:35 am

burnt69: Deal Addict; Oct 6, 2015; 2463 posts; 1367 upvotes

May 5th, 2019 12:35 am

unrealdude24 wrote: ↑ According to consumer reports, there is a definite difference between Top Tier and other fuels without additives shown experimentally:
https://www.consumerreports.org/car-mai ... tra-price/

Advertising brought to you by:

Code: Select all

Top Tier Retailers
76, Aloha Petroleum, Amoco, ARCO, Beacon, BP, Breakaway, Break Time, Cenex, Chevron, CITGO, Conoco, Costco, CountryMark, Diamond Shamrock, Entec, Esso, Express Mart, Exxon, Fast Fuel, HFN, Hele, Holiday, Kwik Star, Irving, Kirkland Signature, Kwik Star, Kwik Trip, Marathon, Metro Petro, MFA, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Phillips 66, PUMA, QT, Quik Trip, Road Ranger, Shamrock, Shell, Sinclair, Sunoco, SuperAmerica, SuperFuels, Texaco, Valero, Value America, Wow, and Win Win.

Are you suggesting that all gas stations in Canada are equivalent to ones that are Top Tier certified in the states and elsewhere? This would imply Canadian gasoline is held to a higher standard than everywhere else.

Yes. They all meet the same ASTM standards and create products that go into shared infrastructure (pipelines, tank-trailers, rail-cars, etc.). No refinery would put substandard product into the supply chain and risk having their product(s) embargoed or their ability to inject to a shared pipeline terminated.

+5

May 5th, 2019 12:45 am

engineered: Deal Expert; Feb 11, 2007; 15690 posts; 16842 upvotes; Oakville

May 5th, 2019 12:45 am

burnt69 wrote: ↑ Advertising brought to you by:
Code: Select all
Top Tier Retailers
76, Aloha Petroleum, Amoco, ARCO, Beacon, BP, Breakaway, Break Time, Cenex, Chevron, CITGO, Conoco, Costco, CountryMark, Diamond Shamrock, Entec, Esso, Express Mart, Exxon, Fast Fuel, HFN, Hele, Holiday, Kwik Star, Irving, Kirkland Signature, Kwik Star, Kwik Trip, Marathon, Metro Petro, MFA, Mobil, Ohana Fuels, Phillips 66, PUMA, QT, Quik Trip, Road Ranger, Shamrock, Shell, Sinclair, Sunoco, SuperAmerica, SuperFuels, Texaco, Valero, Value America, Wow, and Win Win.
Yes. They all meet the same ASTM standards and create products that go into shared infrastructure (pipelines, tank-trailers, rail-cars, etc.). No refinery would put substandard product into the supply chain and risk having their product(s) embargoed or their ability to inject to a shared pipeline terminated.

Isn't the difference that the top tier stuff gets extra additives to better clean your engine? They all use the same base fuel.

Win a PS5 with RFD!

+3

May 5th, 2019 1:34 am

craftsman: Deal Expert; Jan 27, 2006; 16021 posts; 8873 upvotes; Vancouver, BC

May 5th, 2019 1:34 am

engineered wrote: ↑ Isn't the difference that the top tier stuff gets extra additives to better clean your engine? They all use the same base fuel.

I wouldn't say extra additives to better clean your engine but different additives to better clean your engine.

Each oil company does have their own blending of various additives added to their gas which may come from ONE refinery. I say different because an AAA report shows that while their Top Tier samples clean better in most categories, they failed in one (by a big margin). Their additive package may be added at the station when the base gas is poured into the storage tanks. According to various test, polyetheramine (PEA), also known as Chevron's Techron, works well for cleaning up deposits compared to most other 'cleaners' out there. Recently, other gas companies (like Shell and ESSO) have been marketing their new formulas which are basically PEA additives (a slight variation from in each).

May 5th, 2019 3:01 pm

ES_Revenge: Deal Expert; Mar 23, 2004; 28321 posts; 8784 upvotes

May 5th, 2019 3:01 pm

Top-tier is really just a branding and doesn't really mean much--fuel from a big-name station like Petro will be fine, whether they paid the "Top-Tier" licensing fees or not. Doesn't matter if it's Top-Tier or Shmop-Tier gas, DI carbon deposits will "get you" on modern direct injected engines. Top-Tier gas will do nothing to help intake-valve deposits in these engines and other engine deposits are far less of an issue, so Top-Tier is just marketing jazz these days.

+7

May 6th, 2019 10:10 am

angryaudifanatic: Deal Addict; Nov 10, 2018; 3833 posts; 3925 upvotes

May 6th, 2019 10:10 am

ES_Revenge wrote: ↑ Top-tier is really just a branding and doesn't really mean much--fuel from a big-name station like Petro will be fine, whether they paid the "Top-Tier" licensing fees or not. Doesn't matter if it's Top-Tier or Shmop-Tier gas, DI carbon deposits will "get you" on modern direct injected engines. Top-Tier gas will do nothing to help intake-valve deposits in these engines and other engine deposits are far less of an issue, so Top-Tier is just marketing jazz these days.

Incorrect.

Top tier fuel may or may not give you an added benefit, sure. However, fuel with the PEA additive has been proven by the SAE to help control carbon deposits on intake valves of DI engines.

Shell and Chevron both use such an additive.

For legal topics and discussions, the opinion, guidance, and thoughts provided are my own and are not considered to be legal advice, in any manner.

+1

May 6th, 2019 6:44 pm

ES_Revenge: Deal Expert; Mar 23, 2004; 28321 posts; 8784 upvotes

May 6th, 2019 6:44 pm

angryaudifanatic wrote: ↑ Incorrect.

Top tier fuel may or may not give you an added benefit, sure. However, fuel with the PEA additive has been proven by the SAE to help control carbon deposits on intake valves of DI engines.

How? By magic? DI precisely injects fuel directly into the cylinder during the intake stroke, while air is being drawn into the cylinder. How would it do anything to clean the other side of the valves? The valve closes, compression occurs, and then ignition. What the heck is the fuel in the cylinder going to do for the backs of the intake valves on a DI engine?

Techron is a useful cleaner for injectors but specifically in a DI engine, specifically for the backs of the intake valves, it'll do nothing for you.

Similarly the voodoo that is involved in catch cans does nothing either. Only thing you can do is have the manufacturer make the engine with dual-injection or put in something like W/M and hope that it helps out a bit. Otherwise...good luck.

+4

May 6th, 2019 10:35 pm

engineered: Deal Expert; Feb 11, 2007; 15690 posts; 16842 upvotes; Oakville

May 6th, 2019 10:35 pm

ES_Revenge wrote: ↑ How? By magic? DI precisely injects fuel directly into the cylinder during the intake stroke, while air is being drawn into the cylinder. How would it do anything to clean the other side of the valves? The valve closes, compression occurs, and then ignition. What the heck is the fuel in the cylinder going to do for the backs of the intake valves on a DI engine?

Techron is a useful cleaner for injectors but specifically in a DI engine, specifically for the backs of the intake valves, it'll do nothing for you.

Similarly the voodoo that is involved in catch cans does nothing either. Only thing you can do is have the manufacturer make the engine with dual-injection or put in something like W/M and hope that it helps out a bit. Otherwise...good luck.

Supposedly the PEA may reach the intake with some engines if the intake valve isn't closed when the fuel is injected. The other theory is that the PEA is blown by, and reaches the intake through the PCV.

Win a PS5 with RFD!

+1

May 7th, 2019 7:04 am

angryaudifanatic: Deal Addict; Nov 10, 2018; 3833 posts; 3925 upvotes

May 7th, 2019 7:04 am

engineered wrote: ↑ Supposedly the PEA may reach the intake with some engines if the intake valve isn't closed when the fuel is injected. The other theory is that the PEA is blown by, and reaches the intake through the PCV.

To build on this and to answer the question posed,....

The same way blow by makes its way back pass the intake valves again to ruin everything.

For legal topics and discussions, the opinion, guidance, and thoughts provided are my own and are not considered to be legal advice, in any manner.

May 7th, 2019 12:56 pm

EastGTARedFlagger: Penalty Box; Feb 22, 2016; 4745 posts; 4315 upvotes

May 7th, 2019 12:56 pm

Open questions:

When Costco first opened its gas stations in Canada they didn't have Top Tier signs on their pumps. Anybody avoid them until those signs went up?
For those who always buy gas there, anybody notice a difference in engine performance/fuel economy using Costco gas before and after the TT signs?

May 7th, 2019 4:11 pm

death_hawk: Deal Expert; Aug 22, 2006; 27311 posts; 13001 upvotes

May 7th, 2019 4:11 pm

EastGTARedFlagger wrote: ↑ When Costco first opened its gas stations in Canada they didn't have Top Tier signs on their pumps. Anybody avoid them until those signs went up?

I didn't really care to be honest. I also didn't know anything about fuel/cars/etc.
I still don't to be honest.

Side question: When did they put the signs up? I don't recall not seeing them.

For those who always buy gas there, anybody notice a difference in engine performance/fuel economy using Costco gas before and after the TT signs?

No relation to before/after, but I do notice a real difference between Costco and Superstore fuel.
It's anecdotal and totally not scientific but based on my average driving habits I can get about 10% more mileage at Costco vs Superstore.

I haven't tested this now that they rebranded to Mobil.

May 7th, 2019 6:44 pm

ES_Revenge: Deal Expert; Mar 23, 2004; 28321 posts; 8784 upvotes

May 7th, 2019 6:44 pm

angryaudifanatic wrote: ↑ To build on this and to answer the question posed,....

The same way blow by makes its way back pass the intake valves again to ruin everything.

I still don't think that "theory" is going to do much for you in reality. Even if carbon on the valve backs is going to be slightly reduced over time, it's not going to again magically solve this problem and the need to have to have them physically cleaned over time.

EastGTARedFlagger wrote: ↑ Open questions:

When Costco first opened its gas stations in Canada they didn't have Top Tier signs on their pumps.

I'm not even sure when Costco "first opened gas stations in Canada" lol. I just imagined they've had them for ages. (I've only been a Costco member myself for a couple years.)

EastGTARedFlagger wrote: ↑Anybody avoid them until those signs went up?

I "avoid" them because they don't have high enough octane for me unfortunately, but I never would have cared if they were Top-Tier or not. Costco sells an incredible amount of gasoline it seems so I'm pretty sure if they had any real problems related to their gasoline it would have made headlines a long time ago.

+1

May 7th, 2019 7:14 pm

angryaudifanatic: Deal Addict; Nov 10, 2018; 3833 posts; 3925 upvotes

May 7th, 2019 7:14 pm

ES_Revenge wrote: ↑ I still don't think that "theory" is going to do much for you in reality. Even if carbon on the valve backs is going to be slightly reduced over time, it's not going to again magically solve this problem and the need to have to have them physically cleaned over time.

I'm not even sure when Costco "first opened gas stations in Canada" lol. I just imagined they've had them for ages. (I've only been a Costco member myself for a couple years.)

I "avoid" them because they don't have high enough octane for me unfortunately, but I never would have cared if they were Top-Tier or not. Costco sells an incredible amount of gasoline it seems so I'm pretty sure if they had any real problems related to their gasoline it would have made headlines a long time ago.

You are most certainly entitled to your own opinion. We should leave the facts with the SAE.

There is no doubt that manual clean will eventually be necessary. The question is how often and if the steady state accumulation state remains below a level which requires a manual clean.

Too many variables at play to determine the latter.

For legal topics and discussions, the opinion, guidance, and thoughts provided are my own and are not considered to be legal advice, in any manner.

+1

Sep 6th, 2019 11:46 pm

Rickyee: Newbie; Sep 5, 2019; 1 posts; 1 upvote

Sep 6th, 2019 11:46 pm

Only fill at Top Tier they add 5 times the additive then non top tier. Brands of gas or brands of additive does not matter. Top Tier is not a joke it's real. My first recommendation is always Costco best price with best quality next any station that is too tier. I have been in the fuel industry for 25 years.

+1

Oct 24th, 2019 4:11 pm

joe747: Newbie; Dec 14, 2013; 9 posts; 4 upvotes; Milton

Oct 24th, 2019 4:11 pm

I confirmed with top tier petro canada is no longer top tier gas. Petro canada would not get back to me on it. Top tier stated they were surprised of Petro Canada's withdrawal from the program and they are working with them to remove all signs and decals from all stations. What a disappointment.

+2

Oct 24th, 2019 11:14 pm

EastGTARedFlagger: Penalty Box; Feb 22, 2016; 4745 posts; 4315 upvotes

Oct 24th, 2019 11:14 pm

joe747 wrote: ↑ I confirmed with top tier petro canada is no longer top tier gas. Petro canada would not get back to me on it. Top tier stated they were surprised of Petro Canada's withdrawal from the program and they are working with them to remove all signs and decals from all stations. What a disappointment.

If only PC would charge less for their fuel vs the others since they're saving money by not paying for the snake-oil certification... If they did this then it wouldn't be a disappointment.

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