PHEV Discussion Thread

Last Updated:
Dec 2nd, 2019 4:09 pm

Tags:

discussion thread

SCORE
+1
3
2

Reply to ThreadReply

Search this thread

Search this thread

Mar 19th, 2019 1:08 pm

Blubbs [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Mar 21, 2013; 5946 posts; 10360 upvotes; Canada

Mar 19th, 2019 1:08 pm

PHEV Discussion Thread

Hey all,

I wanted to create a dedicated thread for PHEVs as I think this will be a growing area of car sales for the next while.

Since I live in the prairies where temps get incredibly low and charging infrastructure sucks, I'd like to consider owning a PHEV. I'm curious what others who own or are interested in PHEVs think about what's currently out there and which vehicles are the best.

Here is a list from 2018 of PHEVs on sale in Canada.

Additional for 2019:

Kia Niro PHEV $33,965, 42km EV range, 901km total range

Last edited by Blubbs on Mar 19th, 2019 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

42 replies

Mar 19th, 2019 1:12 pm

Blubbs [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Mar 21, 2013; 5946 posts; 10360 upvotes; Canada

Mar 19th, 2019 1:12 pm

To me, the Prius Prime seems like one of the best options given it has the Toyota reliability/low depreciation, low price, decent range with short recharge time, heat pump to help with climate and extremely good efficiency when on gas. Reviews seem positive, though the big screen apparently sucks.

My biggest concern with the Prime is that I have owned a <6 second sedan (2010 Maxima) for the last 5 years, and this is a 10 second vehicle. While I don't really drive aggressively anymore, I could see this being a big annoyance.

We will see later today whether the government announces the expected $5k rebate that could apply to many PHEVs.

Mar 19th, 2019 1:12 pm

koffey: Deal Expert; Oct 6, 2010; 15652 posts; 10316 upvotes; Toronto

Mar 19th, 2019 1:12 pm

Personally I think the Volt is probably the best. Reasons being 1. Price. 2. It's the only one that I have experience with. I didn't even know 1/2 of these existed until you posted the list.

I would/could/may totally buy one and maybe I will next year. A ev isn't in my cards but I could see myself in a phev. The prius is a POS compared to the Volt.

PS, more ev/phev/tesla threads....

Last edited by koffey on Mar 19th, 2019 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DYI difficulty scale:
0-joke
10-no joke

Mar 19th, 2019 1:15 pm

Blubbs [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Mar 21, 2013; 5946 posts; 10360 upvotes; Canada

Mar 19th, 2019 1:15 pm

Another option I have considered is the Pacifica Hybrid. The problem is they light on fire, lol. Also in the winter the heat requires the engine to turn on, and since this is a huge vehicle it will still use a pretty good amount of gas.

Specifically this one, a new 2017 for $45k.
https://www.derrickdodge.com/inventory/ ... 70hr768704

Mar 19th, 2019 1:17 pm

EP32k2: Deal Expert; Jan 15, 2006; 21162 posts; 23185 upvotes; Richmond Hill

Mar 19th, 2019 1:17 pm

My wife has a 2014 Volt that we have owned since new. She loves it as the battery range is within her daily commute and she only fills up 3x a year. She likes the instant torque and the size of the car but the only complaint she really has is the lack of heat in winter, so she ends up stealing my car when it's -20 out lol. Main reason why she bought it was so that she can use the HOV on the 404, that was a major selling point for her, but now that she rarely has to go to the gas station it will be hard for her to go back to ICE I think. We did have a couple issues with her car though. For the first 4 years absolutely no problems, but then just after the 4 year mark her car threw a CEL and needed the gas tank replaced and one of the battery banks all done under warranty with no issues. So that isn't exactly confidence inspiring but since we own the car outright and the running cost is a joke it's hard to justify buying another PHEV/BEV at this point.

I too believe PHEV's will be here for a bit till the infrastructure is there for BEV's.

+1

Mar 19th, 2019 1:17 pm

Blubbs [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Mar 21, 2013; 5946 posts; 10360 upvotes; Canada

Mar 19th, 2019 1:17 pm

koffey wrote: ↑ Personally I think the Volt is probably the best. Reasons being 1. Price. 2. It's the only one that I have experience with. I didn't even know 1/2 of these existed until you posted the list.

I would/could/may totally buy one and maybe I will next year. A ev isn't in my cards but I could see myself in a phev. The prius is a POS compared to the Volt.

PS, more ev/phev/tesla threads....

The Volt certainly is better for EV range and performance, the other factors like price, size, cargo, reliability, gas mileage swing in favour of the Toyota however. The Volt is discontinued so you can't buy one new with a rebate once stock is gone. However they may be good used buys for people who don't have car seats.

Last edited by Blubbs on Mar 19th, 2019 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

+1

Mar 19th, 2019 1:22 pm

Blubbs [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Mar 21, 2013; 5946 posts; 10360 upvotes; Canada

Mar 19th, 2019 1:22 pm

EP32k2 wrote: ↑ My wife has a 2014 Volt that we have owned since new. She loves it as the battery range is within her daily commute and she only fills up 3x a year. She likes the instant torque and the size of the car but the only complaint she really has is the lack of heat in winter, so she ends up stealing my car when it's -20 out lol. Main reason why she bought it was so that she can use the HOV on the 404, that was a major selling point for her, but now that she rarely has to go to the gas station it will be hard for her to go back to ICE I think. We did have a couple issues with her car though. For the first 4 years absolutely no problems, but then just after the 4 year mark her car threw a CEL and needed the gas tank replaced and one of the battery banks all done under warranty with no issues. So that isn't exactly confidence inspiring but since we own the car outright and the running cost is a joke it's hard to justify buying another PHEV/BEV at this point.

I too believe PHEV's will be here for a bit till the infrastructure is there for BEV's.

Thank you for sharing that ownership experience. The first gen Volt seems like an amazing buy used right now if you can find one. However I want the safety nannies so I'll be going newer.

That's interesting that there is a lack of heat. Do you think that is endemic to most PHEVs or is it a consequence of the Volt's specific design?

Mar 19th, 2019 1:26 pm

EP32k2: Deal Expert; Jan 15, 2006; 21162 posts; 23185 upvotes; Richmond Hill

Mar 19th, 2019 1:26 pm

Blubbs wrote: ↑ Thank you for sharing that ownership experience. The first gen Volt seems like an amazing buy used right now if you can find one. However I want the safety nannies so I'll be going newer.

That's interesting that there is a lack of heat. Do you think that is endemic to most PHEVs or is it a consequence of the Volt's specific design?

It's due to the Volt using resistive heating. The engine does run below -10c whether you want it to or not to help supplement heating and that's why she needs to fill up 3x a year. The HVAC has 2 auto settings one is "econ" and the other "comfort", when it's on comfort the heat is ok, not toasty but adequate but as a consequence the EV range plummets and plummets hard. In the summer with AC on it's fine and hardly affects the range. It's an interesting experience owning a PHEV and I really have nothing negative to say about it. Buying a used Volt is a bargain for sure, it's a lot of car for the money.

+1

Mar 19th, 2019 1:32 pm

Bb0231: Deal Addict; Nov 8, 2017; 2768 posts; 1055 upvotes

Mar 19th, 2019 1:32 pm

Any updated list for 2019? Thanks.

Mar 19th, 2019 1:49 pm

Blubbs [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Mar 21, 2013; 5946 posts; 10360 upvotes; Canada

Mar 19th, 2019 1:49 pm

Bb0231 wrote: ↑ Any updated list for 2019? Thanks.

The only addition I am aware of is the Niro PHEV. I added it to the first post. This has also been refreshed though it has not been announced yet in Canada. The interior is much improved, and the exterior too, a bit. I actually think this vehicle would be my top pick right now if had a proper heat pump system. Right now it turns on the engine for heat which is bad for some commute lengths (short ones, as it will switch to EV once the cabin warms up).

Mar 19th, 2019 2:13 pm

rf134a: Deal Fanatic; Feb 15, 2005; 6754 posts; 2473 upvotes; YEG

Mar 19th, 2019 2:13 pm

The Niro's price premium from SX to SX PHEV is ~$4k. That's a lot for not much extra range and 14kw more powerful motor.

⬆⬆⬇⬇⬅➡⬅➡BA

+1

Mar 19th, 2019 2:18 pm

rugerty100: Deal Fanatic; Sep 22, 2012; 7567 posts; 10452 upvotes; Richmond Hill

Mar 19th, 2019 2:18 pm

Blubbs wrote: ↑ My biggest concern with the Prime is that I have owned a <6 second sedan (2010 Maxima) for the last 5 years, and this is a 10 second vehicle. While I don't really drive aggressively anymore, I could see this being a big annoyance.

It's definitely a concern, especially if you're trying to limit operation of the gasoline engine and stay in electric mode.

When I drive my Outlander PHEV, it's more like a ~20 second (0-100 km/h) car if I attempt to avoid engaging the engine.

Last edited by rugerty100 on Mar 19th, 2019 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mar 19th, 2019 2:20 pm

Blubbs [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Mar 21, 2013; 5946 posts; 10360 upvotes; Canada

Mar 19th, 2019 2:20 pm

rf134a wrote: ↑ The Niro's price premium from SX to SX PHEV is ~$4k. That's a lot for not much extra range and 14kw more powerful motor.

If it had a heat pump etc. you could get rid of almost all gas usage for normal length commutes though.

Plus, EV rebates may make it cheaper as soon as April 1. We'll know in a couple of hours.

Mar 19th, 2019 2:21 pm

EP32k2: Deal Expert; Jan 15, 2006; 21162 posts; 23185 upvotes; Richmond Hill

Mar 19th, 2019 2:21 pm

rugerty100 wrote: ↑ It's definitely a concern, especially if you're trying to limit operation of the gasoline engine and stay in electric mode.

When I drive my Outlander PHEV, it's more like a ~20 second car if I attempt to avoid engaging the engine.

Ah I guess the list needs a separate column for PHEV's that can operate in pure EV mode like the Volt.

Mar 19th, 2019 2:22 pm

Blubbs [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Mar 21, 2013; 5946 posts; 10360 upvotes; Canada

Mar 19th, 2019 2:22 pm

rugerty100 wrote: ↑ It's definitely a concern, especially if you're trying to limit operation of the gasoline engine and stay in electric mode.

When I drive my Outlander PHEV, it's more like a ~20 second car if I attempt to avoid engaging the engine.

Lol, that's epically slow. I'd heard that about the Outlander. How do you like it overall then?

The only two sort of fast non-luxury PHEVs seem to be the Volt and the Clarity (which doesn't have a heated steering wheel and needs a refresh of the outside so bad lol).

Mar 19th, 2019 2:24 pm

Blubbs [OP]: Deal Fanatic; Mar 21, 2013; 5946 posts; 10360 upvotes; Canada

Mar 19th, 2019 2:24 pm

EP32k2 wrote: ↑ Ah I guess the list needs a separate column for PHEV's that can operate in pure EV mode like the Volt.

Most of them require you to not push the accelerator past a certain point. Apparently the Clarity has a clear indent thing you can feel on the pedal. Of course it's one of the best at staying in EV as well.

Also the Prime has an EV mode button. Though I think for safety if you completely floor it the engine will come on still.

Mar 19th, 2019 2:30 pm

pdipps: Sr. Member; Sep 29, 2010; 678 posts; 994 upvotes

Mar 19th, 2019 2:30 pm

I really want one of these, but the problem is they either look hideous, or are in the higher end and cost too damn much.

Not to mention, it's really hard to make up the price premium in gas over the lifetime of the vehicle unless you do A LOT of driving, most of it in EV mode. They really need to bring the price down on these.

Mar 19th, 2019 2:31 pm

rugerty100: Deal Fanatic; Sep 22, 2012; 7567 posts; 10452 upvotes; Richmond Hill

Mar 19th, 2019 2:31 pm

Blubbs wrote: ↑ Lol, that's epically slow. I'd heard that about the Outlander. How do you like it overall then?

The only two sort of fast non-luxury PHEVs seem to be the Volt and the Clarity (which doesn't have a heated steering wheel and needs a refresh of the outside so bad lol).

20 second figure is outta my ass, but it definitely feels very slow off the line. I get tailgated a lot when driving that car (while in the right lane).

I'm also a lot more conscious about eco-efficiency when driving that car because of the very visible eco-stats, for example I regen-brake a lot earlier than I normally brake. Because of the relatively small 35km electric range, I have to watch my driving style if I want to go pure electric.

I don't really like the car, the seats aren't too comfortable, the inside is full of plastic, the alignment is off and the steering wheel has a tendency to veer towards the right side, but the dealership says nothing is wrong. It's also quite prone to understeer.

Mar 19th, 2019 2:37 pm

Yssx880: Banned; Mar 4, 2019; 23 posts; 6 upvotes

Mar 19th, 2019 2:37 pm

Prius !!
Not saying I like that econo box, but I like the idea of short range but cheap overall cost idea .

Owned ffe for two year, I figure electricity is still limited, doesn't matter how you increase battery size. Of course bigger battery means added cost and weight.

Get a 30/40km range hybrid battery and call it a day.

Mar 19th, 2019 2:52 pm

rugerty100: Deal Fanatic; Sep 22, 2012; 7567 posts; 10452 upvotes; Richmond Hill

Mar 19th, 2019 2:52 pm

Oh, and another crap thing about the Outlander PHEV is the ridiculous oil change interval in the manual. Yes, by Mitsubishi Motors Canada, not the dealership.

Under normal conditions, it's 5 months/8000km.

In severe conditions (which Ontario would definitely be for most of the year), it's 3 months/5000 km IIRC.

Yes...3 month oil change interval for full synthetic 0W-20.

However, in Norway, the oil change interval seems to be 12 months/20,000 km, and they have a 7 year factory warranty....

Reply to Thread

Top

Thread Information

There is currently 1 user viewing this thread. (0 members and 1 guest)