Automotive

Pickup truck - registered by dealer as 'business' insured as 'personal'

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[OP]
Deal Addict
Nov 17, 2012
2547 posts
1554 upvotes
Toronto

Pickup truck - registered by dealer as 'business' insured as 'personal'

Bought a used pickup from a dealership. They did the licensing work and of course I got my insurance sorted based on the VIN before I picked it up.

The guy who sold it to me was pretty green it would seem, and put the license plate sticker on the rear plate. On trucks it goes in front. As I learned later, for personal use pickup trucks, you're supposed to run a little red sticker on the back indicating the truck is primarily for personal use.

I was at the MTO turning in my old plates for the pro-rated sticker refund and mentioned that I needed the red sticker for my truck. They looked at the registration and told me it was registered as 'business' indicated by a code on the ownership. $32 to change it to Personal. I suggested I'd take care of it another time.

Frankly I don't think it's a big deal, and not worth spending $2 to correct let alone $32. It's insured as personal use, I bought it personally, I don't own a business or work in a trade where the vehicle could be used for business and clearly am not using it as a deductible against income.

Any pressing reason to go back and change my ownership, and run the little red sticker? I need to swap the plates around so the annual sticker is up front but I didn't see the point in spending the money on a new ownership.
22 replies
Member
Feb 4, 2012
277 posts
70 upvotes
Ottawa
Welcome to the bizarre and confusing world of truck registration in Ontario. Very few understand it, including the people working behind the counter at Service Ontario.

Your green ownership card probably says "COM" on it, next to the plate number. It's that way for all pickups in Ontario as all pickups are considered to be commercial vehicles in Ontario and have the black and white plates, with the registration sticker on the front plate, as you know. When I bought my F-350 I just told the clerk at the licence bureau that the truck isn't being used commercially and that I need a red sticker, and she just gave it to me. Apparently that isn't how it's supposed to work.

I have an email from MTO from 2014 that says: "Light Commercial Vehicles registered as Personal Use Only 'PUO' include commercial motor vehicles (other than a bus) or a combination of a commercial motor vehicle and trailer(s) with a gross weight of not more than 3,000 kilograms and used for personal transportation. The PUO declaration authorizes an annual (passenger vehicle) fee of $98 for Southern Ontario. A 'Used primarily for personal transportation' decal provided by the ministry, is required to be affixed to the upper left corner of the front licence plate in addition to the plate sticker."

So the red sticker would appear just to be for the cost of plate renewal. I shouldn't have one on my F-350 because it weighs more than 3,000 kgs. I pay based on the Registered Gross Weight.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Nov 17, 2012
2547 posts
1554 upvotes
Toronto
Yeah it's a bit odd. Mine is under 3000KG GVWR but is definitely B3K or whatever it says on my ownership, not PUO. But I don't think I'm avoiding any fees - the $120 Southern Ontario annual sticker renewal still applies. I guess it was $98 in 2014 - I don't recall.

I was mostly just curious if there were any obvious pitfalls I'm missing. I don't think there are, and I'm sure 50% of the trucks running around without red stickers are in fact personal use trucks. Like I say, nothing in my purchase (personal), insurance (personal) or operation (personal) points to business use, and I'm not avoiding any fees to MTO by not having it registered PUO. I'm just saving the world one red sticker :)
Deal Addict
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Sep 9, 2012
3737 posts
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Oakville, ON
Not an issue now, but at some point I bet we'll see higher fees to license and renew commercial vehicles compared to personal vehicles. You can cross that bridge when we get to that point, so not worth worrying about for now.

Otherwise, the only other thing I can think of that *may* be an issue is that there are sometimes restrictions on commercial vehicles with respect to where they can park and where they can drive (restructed lanes or restricted road). Usually I see them more specifically referred to a "trucks" meaning big delivery trucks or semi truck long haul rigs. But sometimes I'm pretty sure it refers to simply "commercial" vehicles. All that said / I've never heard of anybody getting dinged for this in a personal use pickup, but it just takes that one time with a cop looking for an excuse to ticket you.

Likelihood of happening is practically nil so I wouldn't worry about it myself. Just bringing it up in case it's a legit problem. If I'm wrong I'm sure others will quickly correct me!
Deal Addict
Apr 5, 2013
4562 posts
1755 upvotes
markham
depending on your GV weight, you could fall into the annual safety sticker rule...there is a commercial yellow annual safety sticker (in Ontario) that trucks need...without one your plates can be seized ...also commercial scales..an f350 actually falls under both the scales and the sticker I believe...unless designated personal.
Member
Feb 4, 2012
277 posts
70 upvotes
Ottawa
If your truck's GVWR is over 4,500 kgs you need the yellow sticker. Personal use or business use, doesn't matter.


Safety Inspections – section 8:

Inspection Sticker and Certificate

commercial vehicles

8. (1) A commercial vehicle is prescribed as a type or class of vehicle to which section 85 of the Act applies if it has a combined gross weight exceeding 4,500 kilograms. O. Reg. 476/09, s. 4.

(2) For purposes of subsection (1), the combined gross weight of a commercial vehicle is:

a) the total of the gross weight,

b) registered gross weight or,

c) manufacturer’s gross vehicle weight rating

of each commercial motor vehicle, trailer or trail
[OP]
Deal Addict
Nov 17, 2012
2547 posts
1554 upvotes
Toronto
Thanks everyone for the input. It's a 2015 Canyon - GVRW of 2722KG so under the 3000 limit as mentioned earlier. I figured it wasn't a big deal, and I was always surprised at how many pickup trucks there were out there with 22" rims, low profile tires, leather interiors, immaculate metallic paint etc. were being used for "work" :)

Although I am constantly surprised at the number of high trim level tow-trucks I see. Since buying my GMC Canyon, of course I notice 10x as many GMC trucks on the road as I did before, and I've seen a number of Denali trim level tow-trucks. I guess if you're spending all day in a vehicle it might as well be nice and it's a business write-off, but still surprises me.
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 27, 2004
42302 posts
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T.O. Lotto Captain
torontotim wrote: Thanks everyone for the input. It's a 2015 Canyon - GVRW of 2722KG so under the 3000 limit as mentioned earlier. I figured it wasn't a big deal, and I was always surprised at how many pickup trucks there were out there with 22" rims, low profile tires, leather interiors, immaculate metallic paint etc. were being used for "work" :)

Although I am constantly surprised at the number of high trim level tow-trucks I see. Since buying my GMC Canyon, of course I notice 10x as many GMC trucks on the road as I did before, and I've seen a number of Denali trim level tow-trucks. I guess if you're spending all day in a vehicle it might as well be nice and it's a business write-off, but still surprises me.
No need to over think it. Pick up trucks are the new status symbol. A very very very high majority of them never see work or a farm. MAybe some will tow the occasional boat, or handle the occasional home depot run.

IT is the ultimate show of opulence. IF you can afford to feed and keep a gas guzzling V8 behemouth, for sure you have done well in life! right...
Deal Addict
Apr 5, 2013
4562 posts
1755 upvotes
markham
UrbanPoet wrote: No need to over think it. Pick up trucks are the new status symbol. A very very very high majority of them never see work or a farm. MAybe some will tow the occasional boat, or handle the occasional home depot run.

IT is the ultimate show of opulence. IF you can afford to feed and keep a gas guzzling V8 behemouth, for sure you have done well in life! right...
sure...but a canyon doesnt have a V8
Deal Expert
User avatar
Jan 27, 2004
42302 posts
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T.O. Lotto Captain
cardguy wrote: sure...but a canyon doesnt have a V8
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet ... .932012.29

???? CAnyon does have a V8.

Beat you on the same technicallity you used on me. I didn't say the CAnyon has a V8. I was speaking to pickups in general.
And OP didn't mention what year CAnyon he has. He also said "Used Pickup". Which could indicate the first generation. So it is possible he bought a 1st gen with V8.

>=)
torontotim wrote: Bought a used pickup from a dealership. They did the licensing work and of course I got my insurance sorted based on the VIN before I picked it up.

The guy who sold it to me was pretty green it would seem, and put the license plate sticker on the rear plate. On trucks it goes in front. As I learned later, for personal use pickup trucks, you're supposed to run a little red sticker on the back indicating the truck is primarily for personal use.

I was at the MTO turning in my old plates for the pro-rated sticker refund and mentioned that I needed the red sticker for my truck. They looked at the registration and told me it was registered as 'business' indicated by a code on the ownership. $32 to change it to Personal. I suggested I'd take care of it another time.

Frankly I don't think it's a big deal, and not worth spending $2 to correct let alone $32. It's insured as personal use, I bought it personally, I don't own a business or work in a trade where the vehicle could be used for business and clearly am not using it as a deductible against income.

Any pressing reason to go back and change my ownership, and run the little red sticker? I need to swap the plates around so the annual sticker is up front but I didn't see the point in spending the money on a new ownership.
all in good fun mate

Image

And no need to get defensive. I'm not a pickup hater. If I had the room ,space, money to burn and didnt live near central Toronto... I'd have one of these. And I would only use it for the grocery store or commuting. With the occassional outdoor jaunt. But at that point I'd be tempted to purchase a boat and sled.

Image
[OP]
Deal Addict
Nov 17, 2012
2547 posts
1554 upvotes
Toronto
FWIW it's a 2015 Canyon V6. 3300km in and averaging 11L/100. I get around 8.8 on the highway.

I went from a 2015 Golf to this. Primarily to haul junk to and from a (modest) cottage and to get in and out of it in the spring and winter when the road is crap. I've gotten stuck a few times already in the car.

Make sense? Not at all. I've rented full size 4x4 pickups from Enterprise for $40 a day. For the 10 days a year I need one owning the car and renting a truck makes more sense.

At 20,000km per year I'm using about 800 extra litres of gas annually and the truck was more expensive than the Golf so annual depreciation is higher in absolute dollars. Probably close to $2000 a year more to own the truck than the Golf. Subtract $500 for rentals and I'm at $1500 a year more.

No real difference between my Canyon and a midsize SUV tho.
Deal Addict
Apr 5, 2013
4562 posts
1755 upvotes
markham
did you get midnight black edition? ..daughter bought one ..I loved it..but I like saving fuel with my 15 jetta tdi...i drive way too much for a gasser...freind has a canyon midnight black diesel edition...went to that from a tdi golf..he seems to be averaging same mileage as yours atm..but diesel is less and I think he will depreciate less than a gasser.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Nov 17, 2012
2547 posts
1554 upvotes
Toronto
SLT - certified used w 36000km on it. Bose, navigation, lane departure and collision warning, towing package etc.

I like the creature comforts and leather wears well, but I'm putting 17" rims on it with taller tires and lifting the front 2" with Bilstein shocks all around. I'd have preferred the All Terrain for the suspension and off-road assist but the SLT was available and I don't like the carbon fibre accents in the All Terrain.

The diesel is nice but at $4500 premium I don't see how it could ever be worthwhile on fuel savings alone.

Of course I made the same argument when ordering my 2015 Golf new and had I gone TDI, I might have made out pretty well.
Member
Feb 4, 2012
277 posts
70 upvotes
Ottawa
The Canyon is a nice truck!

Trucks are just handy to have but I agree, use 'em don't be a poser Smiling Face With Open Mouth We have a 1-ton Ford diesel. The diesel is a must for towing heavy (we have a 41', 16,000 lb 5th wheel camper) and that motor pulls like a train. A truck can be a pain in the ass in the city (and some tourist areas) so we have a couple of subcompact cars for city use. We're looking at getting a GMC Denali with dual rear wheels, to replace the Ford. Now that def won't be a truck to take downtown...

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