Credit Cards

PIN Number For Credit Card

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  • Apr 23rd, 2019 9:33 pm
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[OP]
Newbie
Mar 28, 2019
60 posts
24 upvotes
Vancouver

PIN Number For Credit Card

I just moved to Canada from Oregon, USA. Back there, I was using a Capital One credit card and other credit cards issued by my bank. After coming here, TD offered me an unsecured credit card. One thing I noticed about this VISA credit card is this - it asks me to enter the PIN number whenever I use it. Why does it ask me to enter the PIN number? I thought only debit cards came with PIN numbers. When I use my Capital One credit card over here, the POS machines do not ask for PIN number. But when I try to use my TD credit card, the prompt asking for PIN appears! So is this some thing imposed by TD bank or does credit cards generally come with PIN in Canada?
16 replies
Sr. Member
Apr 19, 2017
908 posts
724 upvotes
Thats how credit cards work in Canada.
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 28, 2019
60 posts
24 upvotes
Vancouver
Hmm interesting.

Another thing I have noticed - the prompt asking for PIN doesn't appear when I use the tap functionality (contactless payment). It only appears when I insert the CC in the reader.. Any idea why? Does it mean contactless payments are less secure?
Deal Addict
User avatar
Mar 9, 2012
3295 posts
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Kitchener
Your CC might be tapped enabled, so perhaps just use that feature instead (I think good for only $100 and less). Just a thought.

Also, I think eventually chip-and-pin will start to become more normal in the US. It always seemed to me that the US was quite a few years behind Canada and other countries when it comes to new banking security features.

https://www.creditcardinsider.com/learn ... emv-cards/. <---- American site.
How can we fly like eagles, when we're governed by Turkeys?
[OP]
Newbie
Mar 28, 2019
60 posts
24 upvotes
Vancouver
jeff1970 wrote: Your CC might be tapped enabled, so perhaps just use that feature instead (I think good for only $100 and less). Just a thought.

Also, I think eventually chip-and-pin will start to become more normal in the US. It always seemed to me that the US was quite a few years behind Canada and other countries when it comes to new banking security features.

https://www.creditcardinsider.com/learn ... emv-cards/. <---- American site.
Thanks for the link. Very informative.

I think my Capital One card comes with Chip and Signature technology but the TD CC comes with Chip and PIN technology. Learned something new today! Smiling Face With Open Mouth
Deal Addict
Sep 7, 2004
1587 posts
566 upvotes
Toronto
The US is moving towards chip and pin but the adoption is very low. The US is one of the last countries in the developed world to adopt this technology. Canada switched from signature to chip and pin around 5-10 years ago and we were considered a laggard as chip and pin has been in use in Europe for more than a decade. This was done to lower the risk of fraud. Here's another article explaining why the shift and why the US is taking so long to do it: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report- ... e26590985/


In short, any new credit card issued here in Canada will be chip and pin enabled by default.
Deal Addict
Jan 30, 2012
1527 posts
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TORONTO
ipkonfig wrote: I just moved to Canada from Oregon, USA. Back there, I was using a Capital One credit card and other credit cards issued by my bank. After coming here, TD offered me an unsecured credit card. One thing I noticed about this VISA credit card is this - it asks me to enter the PIN number whenever I use it.
...
So is this some thing imposed by TD bank or does credit cards generally come with PIN in Canada?
This is the norm in Canada. In fact, it is the norm in the entire world (except the USA) to use chip & PIN.
lifebot2 wrote: I believe this is called 3dsecure protection, and even some online vendors require it.
No, chip & PIN is entirely for in-person transactions with a card reader.

3-D Secure ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secure ) is a technology for online purchases (also called card-not-present).

When shopping online with a merchant, not only do you enter your card info into the merchant's website, but you have to authenticate directly with another company (not the merchant).

Not a bad idea in theory, but the implementation is often terrible ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-D_Secur ... _criticism ).

Many banks implement 3-D Secure with an outsourced provider, so the customer is supposed to authenticate with a website that they have never heard of (not the merchant, not the card issuing bank, not visa and not mastercard).

This is the same thing that fraudulent phishing sites do, and that banks have been telling customers not to do.
Jr. Member
Oct 16, 2018
183 posts
110 upvotes
sandeep8g wrote: Thats how credit cards work in Canada.
That's how credit cards work pretty much everywhere but the United States.
Deal Addict
Dec 16, 2017
2541 posts
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CND Brain & Hear…
Canadian debit and credit use offline PIN (stored directly on the card for transaction authorization)
Canadian debit cannot be used credit-like at Canadian POS (even if you see VISA Debit or MC Debit logo)

USA uses online PIN only for debit and cash like transaction.
Give me a J. I'm a maniac and an African expert.
Deal Fanatic
User avatar
Aug 29, 2012
6589 posts
5183 upvotes
Chip and PIN was not adopted to make anything more secure, but solely to push any fraud liability toward the consumer. As in, if someone else used your PIN, "it's your fault and you must be complicit toward the fraud, so you must pay the entire amount". Nevermind that there are tiny cameras and other gizmo that can be used to capture your PIN.

In late 2017 Quebec banned this loophole by amending their law to the effect that a customer is only liable if the bank is able to prove that the customer has been negligent in protecting their PIN. Since then many lenders have amended their TOS to remove such language, for all Canadians I think. I know Rogers Bank had it before but now removed it.
Deal Addict
Aug 18, 2018
1786 posts
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Bay Area
gqbluez wrote: The US is moving towards chip and pin but the adoption is very low. The US is one of the last countries in the developed world to adopt this technology. Canada switched from signature to chip and pin around 5-10 years ago and we were considered a laggard as chip and pin has been in use in Europe for more than a decade. This was done to lower the risk of fraud. Here's another article explaining why the shift and why the US is taking so long to do it: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/report- ... e26590985/


In short, any new credit card issued here in Canada will be chip and pin enabled by default.
Yes the US is about 10 years behind when it comes to credit card security.

One additional complication though is some cards do have chip+PIN capability, but only use it as a backup for when chip+signature is not available. They're not "true" PIN-priority cards, but will still work in automated kiosks/booths/whatever you want to call them. Funny thing is whenever I use one of these cards in Canada, I'm forced to sign the receipt, and the cashier is always surprised. If I use it in an automated kiosk, it just skips right over the PIN and processes it (!!!).

True PIN-priority cards DO exist in the US, but there are literally less than two dozen of them. If you're curious the full list is here: http://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/cardsea ... %5D=credit (if you want such a card with 0 AF and FTF, then that number drops to 10, yes TEN!!!)

(my card is issued by Barclaycard, and although they're all equipped with full PIN capability, you can see they're still signature-priority)
Member
Feb 12, 2019
265 posts
46 upvotes
Vancouver BC
This is called CHIP & PIN and is used by almost everywhere in the world except the USA. So when you’re using your US issued card on purchases, you have to sign for it. You’re only asked for your PIN when you’re withdrawing from an ATM. All (most) Canadian issued credit and debit cards need you to put in your PIN whenever you purchase anything. This will extend to countries that has this system...so basically Europe, Asia or anywhere that has CHIP+PIN. When in USA, your Canadian card will need a signature as the US does not have this system. Note that when travelling in some European countries, they will not accept a signature only card if your do not have CHIP+PIN. Which is why Americans get a locally issued prepaid debitcard with CHIP+PIN when travelling around Europe.
Jr. Member
Oct 16, 2018
183 posts
110 upvotes
WayneW8682 wrote: When in USA, your Canadian card will need a signature as the US does not have this system.
A weird exception in the US is terminals equipped for tap. If you inserted the card it would ask for the PIN, no signature. If you tapped, you then had to sign. If you used phone or watch, no sign.
Deal Addict
Nov 8, 2017
1443 posts
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While their at it slowly catching up to the rest of the world, could the U.S just finally adopt the metric system?
Sr. Member
Mar 21, 2019
746 posts
727 upvotes
lifebot2 wrote: and even some online vendors require it.
Huh???
You should not be entering your PIN on any online vendors.
Which online vendors ask for the PIN?

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