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Please help me to make the best decision of my life... U of T killed me

Newbie
May 31, 2013
2 posts

Please help me to make the best decision of my life... U of T killed me

Hello guys

I would like to take some opinions regarding my situation

Am an international student from Germany who did grade 12 in Canada and got a midterm mark of 88.8%. I applied to Mcmaster Engineering 1, Ottawa U for chemical engineering, Western for Engineering, and U of T track One. I got accepted to all the programs that I listed except U of T Track One which was my first and ultimate option due to the reputation of U of T outside of Canada and since am an international student, I will probably work abroad after I graduate. I called the admission office to ask them about the reason for the rejection and they said that a lot more students applied this year compared to previous years which then made the cut off average so high even for civil engineering which the easiest to get accepted to and because my spf wasn’t that good, but however the admission office said that I have a chance of them reconsidering my application if by the end of the semester my average increased to at least 92%. Anyway my questions are

1- I forgot to ask them how to that, like is there any type of letter i have to send to them so they reconsider my application?
2- And is it really possible to get accepted after the reconsideration or is it just waste of time?
3- i got an alternative offer from u of t for physical and chemical science, if i accepted this offer, can i change my program and transfer to engineering after first year?
4- I know that at McMaster, you cant choose which engineering program you want to do, so is it easier to transfer from McMaster engineering after first year to U of T and get a chance to decide what i want to study at U of T?
4- What if I accepted one of the offers from either Western, McMaster, or Ottawa U, is it easy to transfer after the first year? And which one of them would be the easiest to transfer to U of T?
5- I was thinking of applying again next year so I would have a chance to volunteer more, work, and improve my English, and I know that U of T doesn't take repeated courses so I will only focus on volunteering and improving my English language skills. What do you guys think of this option?

Thank you for reading all of this and please help me to decide what to do.
19 replies
Deal Addict
May 3, 2008
4442 posts
248 upvotes
I think you're placing too much credence in UofT. I know that it's more important for international students but I assure you that UofT has not done you in yet however they might once you go there. It's generally regarded as the toughest school in Canada....all three campuses. McMaster is a good university, they have a fairly solid engineering program. If you go through a few student satisfcation surveys based on their university experience then UofT is usually fairly low along with York while McMaster and Guelph which are in the same general area do fairly well. I don't know how Guelph is for engineering but for Biomedical Engineering they're fairly reputable.

You'll have to work hard at all these schools but if you go by GENERAL consensus then don't go through all that trouble of getting into UofT just because it's more prestigious....the quality of undergrad education is questionable. However if you do a Masters after your undergrad then of course consider it.
Newbie
May 31, 2013
2 posts
Nettles wrote: I think you're placing too much credence in UofT. I know that it's more important for international students but I assure you that UofT has not done you in yet however they might once you go there. It's generally regarded as the toughest school in Canada....all three campuses. McMaster is a good university, they have a fairly solid engineering program. If you go through a few student satisfcation surveys based on their university experience then UofT is usually fairly low along with York while McMaster and Guelph which are in the same general area do fairly well. I don't know how Guelph is for engineering but for Biomedical Engineering they're fairly reputable.

You'll have to work hard at all these schools but if you go by GENERAL consensus then don't go through all that trouble of getting into UofT just because it's more prestigious....the quality of undergrad education is questionable. However if you do a Masters after your undergrad then of course consider it.
thank you for the reply. my question is will it be easier to go to graduate studies if i graduated from McMaster
Deal Addict
May 3, 2008
4442 posts
248 upvotes
I don't think it will be a problem if you have a good GPA and meet the other requirements and a good GPA is not easy to get anywhere but you're more likely to get it at any school other than UofT. Also I do know that McMaster though it might not be UofT is fairly reputable in Canada for engineering so you can apply to a graduate program from there. I'm speaking in very general terms, maybe someone who knows more about engineering can help you out but my advice is to avoid UofT unless what you want to go into is a program only there or if you are so good at school that you feel you can get high grades no matter how challenging it is.
Jr. Member
Aug 6, 2011
122 posts
33 upvotes
Toronto
Since international reputation is an important factor, you should've also considered applying to the engineering programs at McGill as well as UBC as they also hold a strong international presence. However, McMaster's reputation currently ranks within the top 5 in Canada, although their international reputation is a significantly lower; they're still amongst the top 100 universities worldwide. McMaster also holds a solid engineering program and specialization begins at the beginning of second year, after applying to various fields near the end of the first year. Engineering students generally average anywhere between 50% - 65% during the first year, obviously individual averages can have a higher variance depending on the amount of effort. If you wish to transfer after the first year, alternative lower tier institutions may be easier to obtain a higher GPA, however I suggest attending McMaster as it provides an excellent backup in the event that you're refused admission. As for graduate school, it is generally slightly easier to obtain a higher GPA at McMaster than at top tier engineering schools such as UofT or Waterloo, however by no means does it mean it's easy, and marks greatly depend on individual discipline.
Banned
Sep 22, 2008
8322 posts
548 upvotes
aviador wrote: If you want to go to a top tier American university for graduate studies, you'll have better chances of getting admitted if your undergrad degree is from UofT, UBC and McG. Any other canadian U won't cut the mustard.
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Deal Fanatic
Jan 17, 2012
5397 posts
476 upvotes
Toronto
Here is my advice as a UofT grad.

Don't worry about UofT, don't go there! There is really no benefit in doing undergrad at UofT, in fact I believe there are more negatives. Firstly, you don't get the same attention at UofT as at other schools. UofT is more like a giant U.S. -State school than any other Canadian university. Especially in the less-specializaed science and math courses you really are a little fish in a giant pond. Second, grad schools don't tend to care what school you want to so long as it's not a clown-college. In fact, UofT grads do not get special preference when applying to UofT graduate programmes: if a UofT student applies with a 3.7 gpa and a York student applies with a 4.0 chances are the York student will be accepted over the UofT student....assuming writing samples and references are of similar quaility. Furthermore, UofT is the hardest school in Canada and they engineer it as such. UofT sets class averages of about 67% and if the average is significantly higher they can deflate the grades. On top of that, from what I've been told, the workload at UofT is generally higher than at other schools. If you are not planning on gaduate school UofT may have more recognition to employers but I don't think most employers really care that much.
Deal Addict
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Mar 21, 2010
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aviador wrote: If you want to go to a top tier American university for graduate studies, you'll have better chances of getting admitted if your undergrad degree is from UofT, UBC and McG. Any other canadian U won't cut the mustard.
Not always. There are many highly productive profs in lower tier Canadian Universities. If you already know what you like and which professor you want to work with, it doesn't matter which University you go to. I know a YorkU undergrad who went to a European University for his MSc and now completing his PhD at Harvard.
Deal Guru
Oct 3, 2006
10493 posts
793 upvotes
Toronto
I understand how international reputation is especially important for international students, so naturally UofT would be your top choice. Unfortunately, the only way you're going to get in is by raising your average like the admissions office said. I don't know if the university rules permit it, but I've only heard of people transferring OUT of engineering to another discipline, not INTO engineering.
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Mar 19, 2010
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If UofT Engineering doesn't work out. McMaster is your second best bet. It's a great school that's known for Engineering and in terms of Graduate Studies (if you plan to do them in Canada), it doesn't really matter what school you go to. Some people who want to go to Law School go to YorkU because it is 'easier' to maintain a higher GPA while others go to UofT and work much harder.
Banned
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Jun 8, 2008
3977 posts
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I wouldn't suggest going somewhere for first year and assuming that you'll be able to transfer to the program of your choice, either within an institution or among multiple institutions. For example, if you went to Arts and Science in UofT and then decided to transfer, not all of your credits would count and you'd find yourself behind (i.e. you wouldn't be in second year, you'd be partly through first). You also don't know how you'll do in your program, so your marks may (and probably will) go down but you don't know by how much. Transferring into a program can be just as competitive, if not more so, after first year. I wouldn't count on it. Institutions don't make transferring credits between schools very easily and at this time, in Ontario, I'm not sure the institution could even guarantee what, if any, credits you might receive if you were to transfer.

My suggestion would be to pick a school now that you're happy to graduate from 4 years down the road. Personally, I wouldn't wait around to see what might happen if you reapplied to UofT. If your marks go up to the 90s UofT wants, then send a cover letter and your transcript back to them to request reconsideration. In the meanwhile, I'd be visiting the other schools and would be picking one of those rather than considering taking an additional year just for another shot to get into UofT.
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Aug 3, 2006
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aviador wrote: If you want to go to a top tier American university for graduate studies, you'll have better chances of getting admitted if your undergrad degree is from UofT, UBC and McG. Any other canadian U won't cut the mustard.
Spoken like someone who has never gone to graduate school. Grad school ad coms don't care where your degree is from. They look at the entire package which is your undergrad GPA, relevant work experience, volunteer work, extracurriculars, personal essay, standardized test scores and anything else the grad school requires.
Jr. Member
Jan 12, 2010
150 posts
36 upvotes
As a UofT ECE grad, If you have confidence in your academic abilities...and really want to go to UofT, you can ask admission office to let you into any engineering program that has "extra capacity to take you" you mentioned civil is easy, then once you are in you just have to get 80% or above in both semester average. The faculty will guarantee you a transfer to any engineering program of your choice (EngSci exluded), so its just like as if you went to TrackOne. This is what I did.

That being said, if you dont get above 80 in both semesters...you are stuck, but you can still beg the faculty to allow you to transfer if enough people drop out and there is space. The trend is unpredictable after first year: starting with the EngScis who will see high large number of kids dropout, most will drop into ECE, every year one program can be favoured over the other, but mostly ECE, INDY, MECH will be favoured and hardest to transfer to without the double 80% average guarantee.

Also, alot of first years are guaranteed to drop/fail out, the entire TrackOne system claims its flexible, but the underlying assumption is that many kids will fail from each engineering stream to make room for all the Trackone kids who will pass into the various engineering streams after 1st year. Also depending on how many first years in each program are pwned and drop out, you might get into w/e program you want even without 80%.

And once you are stuck you are stuck...
Jr. Member
Jan 12, 2010
150 posts
36 upvotes
At this point, I agree with many previous posters, McMaster is probably your best choice aside from UofT from the schools you listed.

UofT engineering....still gives me cold sweat thinking about it at night...
Deal Expert
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Oct 26, 2003
39338 posts
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since you are already an international student, then might as well apply to other schools as well, such as the ones in the states or germany, UofT isn't the only top tier school out there.
Deal Guru
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Nov 21, 2009
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LOL do they still look at the paper in Europe before they look at what you know and what you can do?
It does not matter what you finish. A good university may help you land your first job. That's it
Deal Addict
Aug 27, 2011
3048 posts
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aviador wrote: If you want to go to a top tier American university for graduate studies, you'll have better chances of getting admitted if your undergrad degree is from UofT, UBC and McG. Any other canadian U won't cut the mustard.
Don't know if you're trolling or serious. No American university looks at where you went to get your undergraduate. It's all about who your references are.
Sr. Member
Jul 26, 2010
734 posts
68 upvotes
Burlington
Undergrad Met. Engineering '66 - Mac; Graduate MASc '70 UofT. That's what I did and worked out great for me and a 35-year career. But that was a long time ago. Nevertheless, my advice is to get B.Eng at different university from Master's / PHD. ;)
Sr. Member
Dec 25, 2006
784 posts
8 upvotes
Stay the hell away from UofT Engineering.
Member
Sep 10, 2012
274 posts
39 upvotes
aviador wrote: If you want to go to a top tier American university for graduate studies, you'll have better chances of getting admitted if your undergrad degree is from UofT, UBC and McG. Any other canadian U won't cut the mustard.
Lots of U of T grads end up at US grad schools in large part because there are large numbers of U of T grads. Same for those other schools.

Harvard Law 2012 Undergrad schools - the Canadian ones are
Queens
Alberta
UBC
Toronto
Waterloo
Western
Laurier
York

(That doesn't mean squat about schools not on the list, it's just a listing of what one prestigious US program had in their accepted candidates in one year. If you look at the full listing, you'll see tons of US schools you've never ever heard of).

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