Personal Finance

Please, help me to pull the plug!

  • Last Updated:
  • Dec 28th, 2016 3:48 pm
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Aug 8, 2012
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bewiseman wrote: Did you make any payments before the statement was issued?
I already answered your question when I said "only $200".

You have a tiny hope they could report $1700 high usage but a 0% chance they report $2700.

e.g. If you spend and pay $1000/day they will NOT report $30,000! :)
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ace604 wrote: I already answered your question when I said "only $200".
??? I wasn't asking you. I was asking vkizzle. In any event, I am not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. I simply told you I paid the balance off quickly because I wanted to boost my spending power, and it worked!

ace604 wrote: You have a tiny hope they could report $1700 high usage but a 0% chance they report $2700.

e.g. If you spend and pay $1000/day they will NOT report $30,000! :)
You're likely right. We'll soon find out. Smiling Face With Open Mouth $1700 is likely since that was actually a posted balance at one point. I'm going to stop using it now until the first statement so I can clarify exactly what is reported.
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vkizzle wrote: Spoke too soon, the "credit check" was with TransUnion, in which it is also part of my reported tradeline in Equifax.
Below is what I see right now (which is exactly what you stated)

High Credit/Credit Limit: $1900.00
Payment Amount: Not Available
Balance: $1900.00
Type of Account: Open
Past Due: $0.00
I was just realizing that what you said earlier is also right, that this account is excluded from utilization ratios. Its listed as an "open" account rather than a "revolving" account. Consequently, it falls into the same category as your cell phone, for example. Therefore "High Credit/Credit Limit" doesn't really matter so long as we pay it off every month. It also means that paying it down to $200 as I did actually looks good since it lowers my total debt. However, I guess I am denying myself a few weeks of interest free borrowing.
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bewiseman wrote: ??? I wasn't asking you. I was asking vkizzle. In any event, I am not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. I simply told you I paid the balance off quickly because I wanted to boost my spending power, and it worked!




You're likely right. We'll soon find out. Smiling Face With Open Mouth $1700 is likely since that was actually a posted balance at one point. I'm going to stop using it now until the first statement so I can clarify exactly what is reported.
I know you weren't asking me, but you asked a question with a public post, not PM ... so I took the opportunity to answer it :P
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ace604 wrote: I know you weren't asking me, but you asked a question with a public post, not PM ... so I took the opportunity to answer it :P
Hmmm, but you actually didn't answer my question. I asked: "Did you make a payment before your statement was issued." It obviously can't apply to you since you don't have an AMEX Gold charge card. Face With Stuck-out Tongue And Tightly-closed Eyes
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bewiseman wrote: Hmmm, but you actually didn't answer my question. I asked: "Did you make a payment before your statement was issued." It obviously can't apply to you since you don't have an AMEX Gold charge card. Face With Stuck-out Tongue And Tightly-closed Eyes
I have 5 Amex charge cards in my family, 3 Platinum, 2 Gold. The question I answered was your original one of whether "only $200" would report, and I said "only $200".

Perhaps I confused you by quoting your followup question :)

The point I was trying to make is that I had already answered your original question and the second one was irrelevant.
POLL: How frequent is your RRSP-matching?
Plastiq: Pay any bill with credit card for 0-2.5% fee (help meet min spending and keep old cards active!)
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bewiseman wrote: As I understand it, it reports your highest balance as the limit. However, I asked the question because I was trying to understand whether the highest balance is based on the statement date or at ANY time. Anyhow, I guess i'll answer my own question in the next week or two.
I've opened my share of Amex charge cards, and I make an effort to pre-pay the balances before the statement cycles. I do this to ensure the utilization ratio isn't 100% on this tradeline when it first reports. So, based on my experience, it will report the "High Credit Limit" with the highest balance that has ever posted on your online Amex.ca account during the month, and not necessarily the balance on your statement.

So for example, my latest Biz Gold Charge card, I racked up $5100 spending within the 1.5 weeks. I then pre-paid it so that by the time the first statement cycled, the balance was only $240. My high limit for this tradeline was set to $5100. I'm looking now at the Equifax report for when this new card had reported, and my score actually went UP! I have a lot of noise in my credit file though, with 20+ active cards reporting during the month.
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bizee-bee wrote: So for example, my latest Biz Gold Charge card, I racked up $5100 spending within the 1.5 weeks. I then pre-paid it so that by the time the first statement cycled, the balance was only $240. My high limit for this tradeline was set to $5100. I'm looking now at the Equifax report for when this new card had reported, and my score actually went UP! I have a lot of noise in my credit file though, with 20+ active cards reporting during the month.
Great! That definitely answered my question. However, if its just reporting as an "open" account it won't impact the utilization part of the score formula; it only impacts the account age and payment history.
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bewiseman wrote: Great! That definitely answered my question. However, if its just reporting as an "open" account it won't impact the utilization part of the score formula; it only impacts the account age and payment history.
I'm not sure what you mean. It reports to both bureaus as a new tradeline. In the Equifax Dashboard it lists under the "Other" category, vs regular credit cards which are listed under "Revolving". There is a utilization ratio for both categories. I've noticed before when a single tradeline reports for either category, the score drops much more significantly if it's very high. And if you don't pre-pay your first Amex charge card before the first statement cycles, it will report with say a balance of $5100 and a high limit of $5100, or even $1200 balance and $1200 high limit...both will be 100% utililzation for that single tradeline, and the score has a higher dent in the score, compared to pre-paying them down EARLY so that there is only say $240 of $5100, or say $100 of $1200.

It 'probably' takes a couple of months for the score to recover after you've paid the balance off anyways, but as mentioned I have so many things happening in my file that it's hard to tell how long it really takes...and yes, I'm still also still using the free HD supplied subscription to Equifax (2+ years now), so I do tend to generate a new report on a near-daily routine. Others with fewer tradelines can probably comment better on how long exactly the score takes to recover, but my guess would be a maximum of 4-6 months, assuming you've continued to have less than 30% monthly utilization on that charge card, and of course you're paying it off in full before the due date.

Getting back to you - good luck with your credit file, and with pulling the plug. I would think that having the subcriptions through Mogo.ca or Ratehub should be good enough for your Equifax report, and CreditKarma.ca for your Transunion report. Though the scores from all of these are all across the board with a wide gap in some instances, you can at least monitor the activity for your credit profile.
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bizee-bee wrote: I'm not sure what you mean. It reports to both bureaus as a new tradeline. In the Equifax Dashboard it lists under the "Other" category, vs regular credit cards which are listed under "Revolving". There is a utilization ratio for both categories. I've noticed before when a single tradeline reports for either category, the score drops much more significantly if it's very high. And if you don't pre-pay your first Amex charge card before the first statement cycles, it will report with say a balance of $5100 and a high limit of $5100, or even $1200 balance and $1200 high limit...both will be 100% utililzation for that single tradeline, and the score has a higher dent in the score, compared to pre-paying them down EARLY so that there is only say $240 of $5100, or say $100 of $1200.
Interesting. OK, good to know. I always assumed that "other" category wasn't impacting my Equifax score. My cell phone has zero impact every month it reports. That I am sure of, but ... after replacing two iPhones a couple of years ago, its high limit is about $1500, so perhaps the monthly bill is too small to matter in contrast with the high limit. In other words, perhaps that trade is already receiving the maximum value towards the overall score.
Getting back to you - good luck with your credit file, and with pulling the plug. I would think that having the subcriptions through Mogo.ca or Ratehub should be good enough for your Equifax report, and CreditKarma.ca for your Transunion report. Though the scores from all of these are all across the board with a wide gap in some instances, you can at least monitor the activity for your credit profile.
Thanks for the suggestion, and I think you're right. However, I have decided to give Equifax one more reporting period so that I can be sure that Grow Financial correctly updates my paid off loan and reports it as closed.
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bizee-bee wrote: I'm not sure what you mean. It reports to both bureaus as a new tradeline. In the Equifax Dashboard it lists under the "Other" category, vs regular credit cards which are listed under "Revolving". There is a utilization ratio for both categories. I've noticed before when a single tradeline reports for either category, the score drops much more significantly if it's very high. And if you don't pre-pay your first Amex charge card before the first statement cycles, it will report with say a balance of $5100 and a high limit of $5100, or even $1200 balance and $1200 high limit...both will be 100% utililzation for that single tradeline, and the score has a higher dent in the score, compared to pre-paying them down EARLY so that there is only say $240 of $5100, or say $100 of $1200.

It 'probably' takes a couple of months for the score to recover after you've paid the balance off anyways, but as mentioned I have so many things happening in my file that it's hard to tell how long it really takes...and yes, I'm still also still using the free HD supplied subscription to Equifax (2+ years now), so I do tend to generate a new report on a near-daily routine. Others with fewer tradelines can probably comment better on how long exactly the score takes to recover, but my guess would be a maximum of 4-6 months, assuming you've continued to have less than 30% monthly utilization on that charge card, and of course you're paying it off in full before the due date.

Getting back to you - good luck with your credit file, and with pulling the plug. I would think that having the subcriptions through Mogo.ca or Ratehub should be good enough for your Equifax report, and CreditKarma.ca for your Transunion report. Though the scores from all of these are all across the board with a wide gap in some instances, you can at least monitor the activity for your credit profile.
I had the free Equifax as part of the Home Depot breach, and during that time, I noticed that utilization under the "other" category has absolutely no effect.
Here's an example.

I had cellular lines at 3 different mobile companies reporting to my credit.
Bell, Fido and Rogers.
Bell reports a high credit/credit limit, where Rogers and Fido do not. The Bell account was a regular talk and text plan that was $28 with tax per month, while Rogers and Fido accounts had 2 and 5 lines all with data, and usual bills were $147 and $330ish.
With Bell reporting a high credit/credit limit of only $28, and Rogers and Fido reporting big balances with no high credit/credit limit, you can kind of do the math and see I was several hundred percent utilization on those open accounts.
Zero impact.
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bewiseman wrote: For that period of time, I have been watching my credit like a hawk, paying monthly, with Transunion and Equifax, and I KNOW this is a waste of money

What's the point of monitoring your credit on such a close basis? What do you get out of it?
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coolintheshade wrote: I had the free Equifax as part of the Home Depot breach, and during that time, I noticed that utilization under the "other" category has absolutely no effect.
Here's an example.

I had cellular lines at 3 different mobile companies reporting to my credit.
Bell, Fido and Rogers.
Bell reports a high credit/credit limit, where Rogers and Fido do not. The Bell account was a regular talk and text plan that was $28 with tax per month, while Rogers and Fido accounts had 2 and 5 lines all with data, and usual bills were $147 and $330ish.
With Bell reporting a high credit/credit limit of only $28, and Rogers and Fido reporting big balances with no high credit/credit limit, you can kind of do the math and see I was several hundred percent utilization on those open accounts.
Zero impact.
That's been my experience too, but these balances are so tiny compared with the total credit limits that perhaps its having no impact for that reason. There may be a much more noticeable impact once my charge card reports with a much higher high limit and potentially a much higher balance.
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coolspot wrote: What's the point of monitoring your credit on such a close basis? What do you get out of it?
I have got a much better understanding of how credit limits, balances , reporting dates etc impact my ability to qualify for credit. This is much less relevant to a person with a long history and high score, however when you're borderline (673) like me, every little bit seems to affect whether I get a "no" or a "yes".

However, I am tired of this now, and don't get the same benefit anymore. I think the best thing I can do for myself is to stop watching and stop submitting new applications. Everything is in very good shape now. I just have to let it all age.
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Jun 10, 2008
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coolspot wrote: What's the point of monitoring your credit on such a close basis? What do you get out of it?
I agree with you. Unless you are trying to rebuild your credit Who cares? I know mine is good but i have no idea what the number is.
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bewiseman wrote: How will this reflect on my credit report? Will it show a high limit (credit limit) of only $200 since that is the statement balance, or will it show $2700 since that is my total charge for the statement period?
So you asked if your high limit would be "only $200" or $2700. Based on bee's answer, the answer is "neither".

For sure I knew it would not be $2700 ;-) report back when it reports. I would expect you see whatever your highest balance recorded by Amex was ($1700).

I do wonder if this is unique to Amex though ... do we have any other issuers of charge cards in Canada to compare to though?

You stated you paid off some balance to increase your spending limit, but I think you should expect to achieve that same result by letting it hit $2700 in spending and then paying that off in full.
You can't expect the check spending power tool to be very generous with you before your first payment has even been made :)
POLL: How frequent is your RRSP-matching?
Plastiq: Pay any bill with credit card for 0-2.5% fee (help meet min spending and keep old cards active!)
Rewards program transfer times (e.g. SPG->Aeroplan, Marriott->SPG, Amex MR->SPG...)
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2014 posts
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ace604 wrote: So you asked if your high limit would be "only $200" or $2700. Based on bee's answer, the answer is "neither".

For sure I knew it would not be $2700 ;-) report back when it reports. I would expect you see whatever your highest balance recorded by Amex was ($1700).

I do wonder if this is unique to Amex though ... do we have any other issuers of charge cards in Canada to compare to though?

You stated you paid off some balance to increase your spending limit, but I think you should expect to achieve that same result by letting it hit $2700 in spending and then paying that off in full.
You can't expect the check spending power tool to be very generous with you before your first payment has even been made :)
Actually, given the timing of how everything is posting to the balance, it looks like balance will max out somewhere less than $1600. $1500 payment, $130 charges waiting to post and current balance of $1516.

As far as I know, AMEX is the last remaining issuer of charge cards in Canada.

Yes, paying it of after statement issue may have increased spending limit, but I was concerned with the effect on my credit. Last time I got a new card and charged it up to a high balance before first statement, it knocked about 70 points off my score, so I'm just playing safe.

Of course, I will definitely report back what happens. No more big charges to this card before first statement.
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coolintheshade wrote: I had the free Equifax as part of the Home Depot breach, and during that time, I noticed that utilization under the "other" category has absolutely no effect.
Here's an example.

I had cellular lines at 3 different mobile companies reporting to my credit.
Bell, Fido and Rogers.
Bell reports a high credit/credit limit, where Rogers and Fido do not. The Bell account was a regular talk and text plan that was $28 with tax per month, while Rogers and Fido accounts had 2 and 5 lines all with data, and usual bills were $147 and $330ish.
With Bell reporting a high credit/credit limit of only $28, and Rogers and Fido reporting big balances with no high credit/credit limit, you can kind of do the math and see I was several hundred percent utilization on those open accounts.
Zero impact.
Thanks for your info. I also have the free HD-supplied subscription at Equifax (into my 3rd year now). My TelCo is also in the "Other" category, and as bewiseman suggested, it's such a small component relative to my Amex charge cards. Nonetheless, there must be some other attribute to the tradeline that ignores its utilization component, because it's not the same type of "credit" product as what we are generally referring to. Open a charge card with Amex and I can assure you that it does make a difference to your score when it reports to the bureaus, albeit temporarily. It's not just my datapoint, but also from those on our card churning team.
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bizee-bee wrote: Thanks for your info. I also have the free HD-supplied subscription at Equifax (into my 3rd year now). My TelCo is also in the "Other" category, and as bewiseman suggested, it's such a small component relative to my Amex charge cards. Nonetheless, there must be some other attribute to the tradeline that ignores its utilization component, because it's not the same type of "credit" product as what we are generally referring to. Open a charge card with Amex and I can assure you that it does make a difference to your score when it reports to the bureaus, albeit temporarily. It's not just my datapoint, but also from those on our card churning team.
You're probably right about that. As some score models use Telco factor in the score, there are some that don't. So there would have to be some way for the scoring model to distinguish the difference between a Telco and another type of "open" account.
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Help pull the plug on what? you are not on the hot deals forum so you should be safe.

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