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Plumbing and gas switch in the utility room

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Deal Addict
May 23, 2006
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Plumbing and gas switch in the utility room

I am not knowledgeable with plumbing or gas line. Hoping someone more experienced can chime in.

See picture from my utility room. FYI, i have a boiler radiant heat system and gas line.

First of all, is there a valve that i absolutely should not touch?

I see a red and yellow ball valves (i.e. the rectangular shape ones), what's the difference between the two?

In addition, there's a few gate valves? do they have the same funciton as the ball valves?

Thanks in advance
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21 replies
Deal Addict
Dec 6, 2020
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First off, the guy who did that piping isn't doing the reputation of the plumbing trade any favors. That is sloppy work. Indeed, the drain line (black pipe) doesn't appear to be code compliant.

That said, if your heating and hot water systems are working, you shouldn't touch any of the valves. They are there only for troubleshooting and to allow for equipment to be replaced without needing to drain your heating system. There is no reason to operate any of the valves under normal circumstances.

If you want to learn about the theoretical purposes of the various components near your boiler, the diagram on page 1 of this PDF is a good place to start.

It's unclear why each ball valve has a corresponding inline gate valve in close proximity. This arrangement serves no obvious purpose.
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Oct 15, 2007
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middleofnowhere wrote: First off, the guy who did that piping isn't doing the reputation of the plumbing trade any favors. That is sloppy work. Indeed, the drain line (black pipe) doesn't appear to be code compliant.

That said, if your heating and hot water systems are working, you shouldn't touch any of the valves. They are there only for troubleshooting and to allow for equipment to be replaced without needing to drain your heating system. There is no reason to operate any of the valves under normal circumstances.

If you want to learn about the theoretical purposes of the various components near your boiler, the diagram on page 1 of this PDF is a good place to start.

It's unclear why each ball valve has a corresponding inline gate valve in close proximity. This arrangement serves no obvious purpose.

I agree, the drain pan and backflow piping are atrocious. Those aren’t additional gate valves, they are hose bibs to drain/purge the system
Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again. - Andre Gide
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May 23, 2006
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Thanks. Just realized that my last post pic may not necessarily show the entire flow. See latest pic for the entire drain.

The drain line as well as the drain pan slopes towards draining the excess water down to the gutter....so I think it should do the work (e.g. if the water tank leaks, the drain pan and drain line will drain the excess water out)

My house is still under warranty. If there's issues, I can let the builder know.

FYI, everything is working properly.

I am guessing the main water shutoff is the only one that I should touch (i.e. shut it off if i go on vacation)?
I think the red ball valve in my pic is the connection between hot water heater and boiler. So, i should use the red ball valve on the other side which is not shown in the picture to shut off the water.
And the yellow ball valve would be the gas shutoff?
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Deal Addict
Dec 6, 2020
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Fantastical wrote: I am guessing the main water shutoff is the only one that I should touch (i.e. shut it off if i go on vacation)?
I think the red ball valve in my pic is the connection between hot water heater and boiler. So, i should use the red ball valve on the other side which is not shown in the picture to shut off the water.
And the yellow ball valve would be the gas shutoff?
No. All of the piping in the photo is associated with your heating and hot water system. There's no obvious gas piping visible, nor does your water shutoff seem to be present. These valves will be elsewhere -- possibly under your boiler or to the left of it.

The drain piping has multiple issues. The pressure relief valve on your heating system pours directly into the drain. This is incorrect as there should be some means to see if the pressure relief valve is releasing water. Further, the drain pipe immediately under the copper line to your water heater is incorrectly sloped and uses the wrong type of T-fitting on the connection closest to the water heater emergency drain. Water and debris may accumulate here, leading to a risk of clogging.
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Apr 26, 2003
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Why is everything so crammed together? If someone had to fix one of those pex fittings behind everything, how could they work in there?
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Jan 1, 2007
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Fantastical wrote: I am guessing the main water shutoff is the only one that I should touch (i.e. shut it off if i go on vacation)?
While not seen in your photos, you can't just shutoff the main water without turning off (unplugging?) the boiler when u are away. If the boiler comes on it will be starved of water.

All I can tell from the photos are you seem to have a boiler and indirect hot water tank. The circulation pumps for the different zones in your home is probably to the left side of the boiler?

You have radiant heating floors throughout the house?
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May 23, 2006
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I see. Thanks. So, i need to shut both the boiler and the water then. It's easy to shut the boiler, which has a switch.

Yes, radiant heat. Yes, I think I have identified the main water shutoff which is on the other side.
engmsf wrote: While not seen in your photos, you can't just shutoff the main water without turning off (unplugging?) the boiler when u are away. If the boiler comes on it will be starved of water.

All I can tell from the photos are you seem to have a boiler and indirect hot water tank. The circulation pumps for the different zones in your home is probably to the left side of the boiler?

You have radiant heating floors throughout the house?
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Feb 24, 2007
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Would you be willing to provide the name of the builder, please?
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I believe the red ball valve should be the main water shutoff. Correct me if you believe that i am wrong
middleofnowhere wrote: Post photos if you can.
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It's a small private builder that subcontracts the plumbing services.

Probably unfair to name the private builder as it's really the contractor that does the plumbing services
eldiablo wrote: Would you be willing to provide the name of the builder, please?
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May 23, 2006
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I am providing a photo that has a better overview of the pipe.

Looks like the main issue is the drainage pipe. Couple issues:

1. I believe the drainage hole on the floor needs some wire covering....which I can do myself. Probably an oversight by the builder
2. The slope of the black drainage pipe from the hot water tank and boiler (i.e. from the right and left, respectively).

I checked page 39 of the BC plumbing code:
http://www.bccodes.ca/BCPC_Update_01.16.pdf

2.4.8.1. Minimum Slope
1) Except as provided in Articles 2.4.10.8. and 2.4.10.9., every drainage pipe that has a size of 3 inches or less shall
have a downward slope in the direction of flow of at least 1 in 50. (See Appendix A.)

Per the above, it appears that the code requires a minimum slope of 1 in 50 (equivalent to 1.15°) which is fairly flat slope.....so, it appears the black drainage pipe from the hot water tank (i.e. the right side) would meet this requirement. The bigger question is the black drainage pipe from the boiler (i.e. the left side)....it doesn't look like it would meet this minimum slope requirement....but i think the pipe is used to drain the condensation from the boiler which is constantly happening? if it isn't draining, I would have known this by now?

My house is still under warranty....if it isn't complying with code, i think i should contact the builder?


middleofnowhere wrote: No. All of the piping in the photo is associated with your heating and hot water system. There's no obvious gas piping visible, nor does your water shutoff seem to be present. These valves will be elsewhere -- possibly under your boiler or to the left of it.

The drain piping has multiple issues. The pressure relief valve on your heating system pours directly into the drain. This is incorrect as there should be some means to see if the pressure relief valve is releasing water. Further, the drain pipe immediately under the copper line to your water heater is incorrectly sloped and uses the wrong type of T-fitting on the connection closest to the water heater emergency drain. Water and debris may accumulate here, leading to a risk of clogging.
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Last edited by Fantastical on Jan 31st, 2021 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Deal Expert
Feb 24, 2007
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Fantastical wrote: It's a small private builder that subcontracts the plumbing services.

Probably unfair to name the private builder as it's really the contractor that does the plumbing services
Fair enough. Thank you.
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Dec 6, 2020
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Fantastical wrote: I believe the red ball valve should be the main water shutoff. Correct me if you believe that i am wrong
That looks like the main water shutoff to me, too. The device above the valve is a pressure reducer, which, if one is installed, is normally installed immediately after the main shutoff.

The plumbing job isn't great here, either. There's no functional problem with using different colored pex for the same pipe but it looks sloppy and makes me wonder what other corners might have been cut where you can't see them.

The drywall mud job is awful.

From your other post, I've identified what's probably your gas shutoff. See the attached image.

Secure the boiler power cord so it cannot come into contact with any hot water piping.

I do not see a shutoff valve to disconnect your heating system from your water supply. This would be a good idea to have so if you ever need repairs made to your heating system, they can be done without needing to turn off your water supply.

I also notice that you don't have any hydraulic separation between the boiler and your heating zones or an external pump. This may or may not be necessary depending on how the rest of your house is piped--you'd need to get another plumber in to check if you have doubts--but this design choice does suggest a job done to minimum standards.
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Jan 1, 2007
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Can you take a photo of your circulation pump(s)? I would think there should be at least 2 pumps, one for the indirect hotwater tank and one pump of the rest for the radiant heating. Or they internal in the Viessman boiler? Reason I ask is if your hot water tank is low on heat, the boiler should come on and heat the tank and not the rest of your home.

Another question, if the bedrooms gets too hot and the basement is still cold, are there controlling valves to reduce or shutdown the flow to certain bedrooms?
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May 23, 2006
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Thanks for your advice. Much appreciate for your time and valuable inputs.

It's a hidden utility room, so I am not surprised if it doesn't look pretty.

Based on my research and everyone's inputs so far...it seems things are done to minimum standard (as you have said) and it's according to BC plumbing code minimum standard (e.g. 1.15° slope requirement for drain pipe).
If that's the case and given the fact that everything is working so far, then I don't have any ground to contact the builder and ask them to make changes.

FYI, i checked the below forum; there's a specific comment saying hydraulic separation isn't needed for my boiler Viessmann Vitodens 100

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussio ... -yes-or-no
middleofnowhere wrote: That looks like the main water shutoff to me, too. The device above the valve is a pressure reducer, which, if one is installed, is normally installed immediately after the main shutoff.

The plumbing job isn't great here, either. There's no functional problem with using different colored pex for the same pipe but it looks sloppy and makes me wonder what other corners might have been cut where you can't see them.

The drywall mud job is awful.

From your other post, I've identified what's probably your gas shutoff. See the attached image.

Secure the boiler power cord so it cannot come into contact with any hot water piping.

I do not see a shutoff valve to disconnect your heating system from your water supply. This would be a good idea to have so if you ever need repairs made to your heating system, they can be done without needing to turn off your water supply.

I also notice that you don't have any hydraulic separation between the boiler and your heating zones or an external pump. This may or may not be necessary depending on how the rest of your house is piped--you'd need to get another plumber in to check if you have doubts--but this design choice does suggest a job done to minimum standards.
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May 23, 2006
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Good question.

Circulation pump is integrated into the Viseemann per the user manual.
Then, i tried looking for a circulation pump for my hot water tank, and I couldn't find any device that looks like the one from the below link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circulato ... ot%20water.

Now, I am thinking that i probably don't have a circulation pump installed for my hot water tank, and that's why it takes a while for hot water to come whenever I turn on my shower or faucet.

I know it wastes a lot of water as i need to turn the water on for a while before hot water would come. Would it be a lot of work to get a plumber to install one for me?
Is it worth it?

For your question about the flow....I don't noticed any issues with my radiant heat. It's been very comfortable. I live in BC and don't use heat that much.....maybe that's why.
engmsf wrote: Can you take a photo of your circulation pump(s)? I would think there should be at least 2 pumps, one for the indirect hotwater tank and one pump of the rest for the radiant heating. Or they internal in the Viessman boiler? Reason I ask is if your hot water tank is low on heat, the boiler should come on and heat the tank and not the rest of your home.

Another question, if the bedrooms gets too hot and the basement is still cold, are there controlling valves to reduce or shutdown the flow to certain bedrooms?
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Jan 1, 2007
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314 upvotes
To be honest with you, you should have instant hot water. I get hot water in less than 5 secs. In those 5 secs, I'm just clearing out the water in the PEX lines.

We have a boiler that heats the coils going into an indirect hot water tank (like yours) and an air handler (we have no furnace). Each of these two zones have their own circulation pump.

When the hot water tank is low on temperature, it will turn on the boiler.

So there is just one pump internally in your boiler for the entire system? I still cannot phantom that. How did the plumber isolate the rest of the house from warming up if you simply just need hot water for a shower?
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May 23, 2006
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I live in BC with mild temperature...so we are not bother without instant hot water....not really a big deal for my family. All my previous places do not have instant hot water, so I believe they are all without circulation pump.

As you can tell, I am not that familiar with plumbing. However, the heat has been working well. Energy gas bill is low at less than CAD$200 each month for a 3,000 sq feet home......although the plumbing setup may be less than ideal, it seems to be working..
engmsf wrote: To be honest with you, you should have instant hot water. I get hot water in less than 5 secs. In those 5 secs, I'm just clearing out the water in the PEX lines.

We have a boiler that heats the coils going into an indirect hot water tank (like yours) and an air handler (we have no furnace). Each of these two zones have their own circulation pump.

When the hot water tank is low on temperature, it will turn on the boiler.

So there is just one pump internally in your boiler for the entire system? I still cannot phantom that. How did the plumber isolate the rest of the house from warming up if you simply just need hot water for a shower?

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