[Poll] AMD now supporting Zen 3 on B450 and X470 boards

Just wonder how much compromise they (AMD) have to do to implement this change.

heyyahblah wrote: ↑ I was going to comment on the other post that was edited, but I'll just use the users quote.

ProjectPixelation wrote: ↑ Yeah, it's not going to be a pretty implementation (not due to AMD's incompetence, but due the insane technical challenge that's presented before them. This whole thing is just sad.

AMD and motherboard makers share the blame for what led to unprecedented backlash against the Ryzen product line, and we're here to find a balance between the outrage and AMD's defense.

AMD can't let one launch go without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. In speaking with sources familiar with the matter, the company was aware of the backlash that would be caused by the lack of B450 Zen 3 support, and so wanted to tell people ahead of the Zen 3 launch so that the backlash didn't overshadow the next product. AMD is trying to give people to digest the bad news and to learn that it misleads constantly in its marketing, and so it pushed the B450 & B550 news alongside a relatively successful CPU. We're trying to tell the story of both sides, here: We start with why AMD's marketing needs to grow up and mature, and why it needs to stop flinging its own waste at Intel at every press event, but we also talk about some of the customer support and customer experience concerns relating to multiple branches of BIOS and mixed CPU support. AMD definitely screwed up, but through all of the smoke screen of BS, there is a lot of validity to its statements. The BIOS limit is a real one that has reaching concerns for customer support if branched. Learn more in the video.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 - Recapping the B450 Outrage
04:18 - AMD's History of Incompetent Marketing
09:15 - MSI Lying About Support
11:15 - AMD Defenses
15:16 - Motherboard Manufacturers Didn't Trust AMD at Launch
17:20 - 32MB ROMs are Special-Order Parts
20:00 - "Just Drop Older CPUs for Zen 3" & RMA Hell
21:15 - "Just Make 2 BIOS Branches"
22:34 - Customer Experience Outside the US
24:00 - Intel Has Reasons for What It Does & AMD is Learning
26:00 - AMD Knew B450 Controversy Would Be Bad, But...
27:25 - Time for AMD to Grow Up

We did a lot of digging on AMD's B450 & X470 motherboard support with Zen 3 for this in-depth research on AMD BIOS limitations (including older CPUs being unable to address 32MB).

AMD can't let one launch go without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. In speaking with sources familiar with the matter, the company was aware of the backlash that would be caused by the lack of B450 Zen 3 support, and so wanted to tell people ahead of the Zen 3 launch so that the backlash didn't overshadow the next product. AMD is trying to give people to digest the bad news and to learn that it misleads constantly in its marketing, and so it pushed the B450 & B550 news alongside a relatively successful CPU. We're trying to tell the story of both sides, here: We start with why AMD's marketing needs to grow up and mature, and why it needs to stop flinging its own waste at Intel at every press event, but we also talk about some of the customer support and customer experience concerns relating to multiple branches of BIOS and mixed CPU support. AMD definitely screwed up, but through all of the smoke screen of BS, there is a lot of validity to its statements. The BIOS limit is a real one that has reaching concerns for customer support if branched. Learn more in the video.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 - Recapping the B450 Outrage
04:18 - AMD's History of Incompetent Marketing
09:15 - MSI Lying About Support
11:15 - AMD Defenses
15:16 - Motherboard Manufacturers Didn't Trust AMD at Launch
17:20 - 32MB ROMs are Special-Order Parts
20:00 - "Just Drop Older CPUs for Zen 3" & RMA Hell
21:15 - "Just Make 2 BIOS Branches"
22:34 - Customer Experience Outside the US
24:00 - Intel Has Reasons for What It Does & AMD is Learning
26:00 - AMD Knew B450 Controversy Would Be Bad, But...
27:25 - Time for AMD to Grow Up

AMD responded to Zen 3 support controversy with an update that it’ll work on B450 and X470, but it has some strict technical limitations (as we discussed previously). Q&A with AMD here.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 - Intro & Recapping AMD’s Announcement
06:38 - Will X370, B350, & A320 Be Supported? All 400 Boards?
10:18 - Why Didn’t AMD Respond Sooner? Why Was it Dropped?
11:35 - Q&A: Why Can’t I Flash Back? Are Boot Kits Available?
15:34 - Will I Get Ongoing AGESA, Performance, & Security Updates?
18:04 - “Verified” Owners of 400-Series? Warranty Support?
21:42 - Why Did AMD Change Marketing from “Through” to “Til”
22:10 - Will This Update Work Regardless of 16/32MB BIOS Size?
23:45 - Will You Limit or Disable Features of Zen 3 on 400-series?
25:33 - Will 500-Series Support a DDR4/DDR5 Split?
27:00 - Conclusion

LowTierScum wrote: ↑ yes this is a sad decision to cater to the cry babies out there that want support. this is going to hurt their budget and manufuacuters that now have to forced to make bios updates on those boards. those boards were limited by the bios chips that is why b450 was budget board and replaced with b550 for better support and compatability. not to mention they AMD said EOL was 2020 so this is disgusting behavior by people. now why will people buy more expenive boards when they can buy the cheaper ones and use 4xxx cpu but it will be crippled. probably wont turbo to the max and ram limitation. it was a very stupid move. they should have gone on and move forward like they said to keep intel on their toes.

Soichiro wrote: ↑AMD Exclusive Q&A: Zen 3 & X370, B450 Feature Blocking, DDR5, & Post-Mortem

Zarkey wrote: ↑ I mean it's a chipset, you have to know that the function is very limited here esp regarding "performance" aspect. Some B350s perform better than the average 450s of not at near top. So there will be worse B550s.

Regarding the "losing revenue argument" you can make the opposite claim much better and AMD for sure knows this, that customers can/will also upgrade to a better/newer processor if their board has long time support. And instead of jumping the AMD ship because Intel just dunked on their competitor they can wait for a better product on their old board, keep the platform alive.

ProjectPixelation wrote: ↑ Edit3: Please keep in mind Ryzen 4xxx performance will be bottlenecked on B450/X470 boards due to ram speed limitations on said chipsets

ChubChub wrote: ↑ Chipsets don't determine RAM speed, the CPU does. Now, newer boards could have better paths, but this is far less relevant than what I/O chiplet your CPU has.

Case: A friend couldn't get the 3900x he wanted at launch, so he bought a X570 + fancy RAM and he bought a used Ryzen 1700 in the interim. Couldn't get RAM to run past 2966, no matter what he did. When he got the 3900x, the same RAM, same motherboard, happily runs at 3733.

I'll also note my cheap DDR4-3600 RAM only ran at 2933 with my 1700x, but runs at 3200 with my 2700x, and almost definitely would run at 3600 with a 3xxx/4xxx chip.

ProjectPixelation wrote: ↑ You do realize that the boards are designed along with the CPUs right? Which means VRM and chipset cooling is designed and based on existing CPUs (including Ram speed considerations). Unless you expect AMD to predict the future and design VRMs/Chipsets cooling on B450/X470 for ram based on 4xxx Ryzen? lol

AMD made it quite clear B450/x470 is ELO in 2020.

Quickman wrote: ↑ Can you provide some sources or links where it says this? All I can find is talk of how long AM4 is going to be supported.

AMD, announced that the new Zen 3 processors will only support x570 and B550 motherboards. Obviously when buying this high-end motherboard, my expectation is the possibility of Zen 3 support. In other words, I thought that the last processor it supported would be Zen 3. But now I was disappointed too.

It is written that the bios rom capacities are insufficient. CH7 uses 256MB Rom. Hopefully it provides Zen 3 support for asus ch7.

heyyahblah wrote: ↑ There are tons of articles about this on the web. Here is the original graph before all the whining and complaining started.
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.p ... ot-support!


This is one of many.


So yea, there will be BIOS issues already I can tell on b450 and X470 chipsets.

Quickman wrote: ↑ That's recent. I'm asking for something where AMD made it clear B450/X470 would be EOL in 2020. Like back in 2018 or 2019.

Nonetheless, both B350 and B450 chipsets will support all AMD CPUs released until 2020.

heyyahblah wrote: ↑ Oh okay, I'm sure there are a bunch of articles out there. This is just a quick example, I don't want to search all night but I've seen it discussed before on the web.

August 06 2018
https://www.msi.com/blog/amd-ryzen-b350 ... difference

Not exactly a "date specific" post by MSI, but it says until 2020. So how do you define 2020? My understanding of released until 2020 is December 31, 2019. But, it could have meant any time in 2020. Dec 31, 2019 - January 1, 2020 for all that matters. There are more articles out there. I still process the words until 2020 to me is December 31, 2019, when the last batch of all the 3xxx series processors dropped. So that does not include the new "2020" batch of the AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 processors, nor the upcoming 4xxx series. To me that definition is 2020 and beyond.

Quickman wrote: ↑ I'm looking for something AMD said. Honestly the only thing I've seen AMD say is AM4 support "through 2020" and "until 2020". Nothing chipset/board specific. And AMD is indeed supporting the AM4 socket through 2020, right?