Computers & Electronics

[Poll] AMD now supporting Zen 3 on B450 and X470 boards

  • Last Updated:
  • May 25th, 2020 5:44 pm

Poll: Are you happy that AMD will now support Zen 3 on B450 and X470 boards?

  • Total votes: 27. You have voted on this poll.
Yes
 
10
37%
No
 
6
22%
Bananas
 
11
41%

Poll ended at May 24th, 2020 6:21 pm

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[Poll] AMD now supporting Zen 3 on B450 and X470 boards

https://www.reddit.com/r/realAMD/commen ... _x470_and/

I have to be honest... I really wished AMD didn't cave in to all the people that got salty over the announcement that Zen 3 wouldn't be supported on B450 and X470 board. Considering everything Dr. Lisa Su and team @AMD has done for us consumers in the past 3 years, they really deserve better; let's all be honest here that AMD is not here to subsidize computer hardware costs or make things "cheaper". I'd rather have an strong AMD that drives price down from COMPETITION (which AMD has been doing for the last 3 years).

The reality with the 4xxx BIOS update is that it WILL remove support for existing Zen chips (1xxx, 2xxx and 3xxx series) due to limited ROM space. AMD engineers and logistics team members will now have to pour valuable time/effort into this instead of making even more powerful 5xxx and 6xxx Ryzen chips. As a disclaimer; someone will botch their bios update (due to w/e reason) and blame AMD anyways... Furthermore, Zen 3 (4xxx) WILL be handicapped on B450 and X470 boards due to Ram speed limitations on those chipsets; people will cry over this too. This is just sad... I genuinely feel we can do better...

Edit: Yeah, let the salty down votes flow~ You're just proving my point Smiling Face With Sunglasses
Edit2: Dang... didn't know so many people were more interested in Bananas than Ryzen 4xxx support hahahahaha
Edit3: Please keep in mind Ryzen 4xxx performance will be bottlenecked on B450/X470 boards due to ram speed limitations on said chipsets
Last edited by ProjectPixelation on May 20th, 2020 9:49 am, edited 5 times in total.
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I was going to comment on the other post that was edited, but I'll just use the users quote.
Just wonder how much compromise they (AMD) have to do to implement this change.
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heyyahblah wrote: I was going to comment on the other post that was edited, but I'll just use the users quote.
Yeah, it's not going to be a pretty implementation (not due to AMD's incompetence, but due the insane technical challenge that's presented before them. This whole thing is just sad.
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ProjectPixelation wrote: Yeah, it's not going to be a pretty implementation (not due to AMD's incompetence, but due the insane technical challenge that's presented before them. This whole thing is just sad.
yes this is a sad decision to cater to the cry babies out there that want support. this is going to hurt their budget and manufuacuters that now have to forced to make bios updates on those boards. those boards were limited by the bios chips that is why b450 was budget board and replaced with b550 for better support and compatability. not to mention they AMD said EOL was 2020 so this is disgusting behavior by people. now why will people buy more expenive boards when they can buy the cheaper ones and use 4xxx cpu but it will be crippled. probably wont turbo to the max and ram limitation. it was a very stupid move. they should have gone on and move forward like they said to keep intel on their toes.

now you can watch amd fanboy complain when using a b450 board with 4xxx cpu and Intel 10xxx cpu will give better benchmarks because they are using amd on hardware that was not supported or meant to be used on 4xxx cpu. it will be a vicious cycle of complaining. watch and see. lol. Face With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of Joy i just laugh at all the cry babies when this backfires on them. it will cost amd lost money and same with board makers who will be forced to bios update and cause problems and now LOST SALES of b550 and X570 motherboards. really disgusting cry babies. shame.

it like @sexyj said. there is no futureproofing in hardware. buy now and stop complaining. b450 and 3xxx cpu is more then enough, you want 4xxx buy x550 or x570 and thats how things work. you are lucky you got so many generations of support anyways, and they told you 2020 cut off date. watch intel pull a smart one, because they've been cautious lately.
the nerve of these simps.
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People are salty because the "salty" complainers "got their way". Ah, the circle of life!

On a more serious note. Can somebody explain to me the "BIOS size limitations"? Is there something special about the 4000 series that is making it bigger? AsRock and Asus X470 boards, and MSI MAX boards have 32 MB of rom, no? I'm just looking at CPU support for my X470 board and it still has Bristol Ridge(Excavator architecture) support. I don't see anything for the first BIOS update that supports Ryzen 3000 series explaining that support for older CPU's will be dropped when updating.
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How AMD Sabotages Itself & Both Sides of the Story (B450 / B550 Chipsets & Zen 3 BIOS)
AMD and motherboard makers share the blame for what led to unprecedented backlash against the Ryzen product line, and we're here to find a balance between the outrage and AMD's defense.

AMD can't let one launch go without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. In speaking with sources familiar with the matter, the company was aware of the backlash that would be caused by the lack of B450 Zen 3 support, and so wanted to tell people ahead of the Zen 3 launch so that the backlash didn't overshadow the next product. AMD is trying to give people to digest the bad news and to learn that it misleads constantly in its marketing, and so it pushed the B450 & B550 news alongside a relatively successful CPU. We're trying to tell the story of both sides, here: We start with why AMD's marketing needs to grow up and mature, and why it needs to stop flinging its own waste at Intel at every press event, but we also talk about some of the customer support and customer experience concerns relating to multiple branches of BIOS and mixed CPU support. AMD definitely screwed up, but through all of the smoke screen of BS, there is a lot of validity to its statements. The BIOS limit is a real one that has reaching concerns for customer support if branched. Learn more in the video.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 - Recapping the B450 Outrage
04:18 - AMD's History of Incompetent Marketing
09:15 - MSI Lying About Support
11:15 - AMD Defenses
15:16 - Motherboard Manufacturers Didn't Trust AMD at Launch
17:20 - 32MB ROMs are Special-Order Parts
20:00 - "Just Drop Older CPUs for Zen 3" & RMA Hell
21:15 - "Just Make 2 BIOS Branches"
22:34 - Customer Experience Outside the US
24:00 - Intel Has Reasons for What It Does & AMD is Learning
26:00 - AMD Knew B450 Controversy Would Be Bad, But...
27:25 - Time for AMD to Grow Up
Last edited by Soichiro on May 19th, 2020 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AMD Loses Either Way: B450 & Zen 3 Compatibility Deep-Dive, 32MB ROM Issues, & More
We did a lot of digging on AMD's B450 & X470 motherboard support with Zen 3 for this in-depth research on AMD BIOS limitations (including older CPUs being unable to address 32MB).

AMD can't let one launch go without snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. In speaking with sources familiar with the matter, the company was aware of the backlash that would be caused by the lack of B450 Zen 3 support, and so wanted to tell people ahead of the Zen 3 launch so that the backlash didn't overshadow the next product. AMD is trying to give people to digest the bad news and to learn that it misleads constantly in its marketing, and so it pushed the B450 & B550 news alongside a relatively successful CPU. We're trying to tell the story of both sides, here: We start with why AMD's marketing needs to grow up and mature, and why it needs to stop flinging its own waste at Intel at every press event, but we also talk about some of the customer support and customer experience concerns relating to multiple branches of BIOS and mixed CPU support. AMD definitely screwed up, but through all of the smoke screen of BS, there is a lot of validity to its statements. The BIOS limit is a real one that has reaching concerns for customer support if branched. Learn more in the video.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 - Recapping the B450 Outrage
04:18 - AMD's History of Incompetent Marketing
09:15 - MSI Lying About Support
11:15 - AMD Defenses
15:16 - Motherboard Manufacturers Didn't Trust AMD at Launch
17:20 - 32MB ROMs are Special-Order Parts
20:00 - "Just Drop Older CPUs for Zen 3" & RMA Hell
21:15 - "Just Make 2 BIOS Branches"
22:34 - Customer Experience Outside the US
24:00 - Intel Has Reasons for What It Does & AMD is Learning
26:00 - AMD Knew B450 Controversy Would Be Bad, But...
27:25 - Time for AMD to Grow Up
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AMD Exclusive Q&A: Zen 3 & X370, B450 Feature Blocking, DDR5, & Post-Mortem
AMD responded to Zen 3 support controversy with an update that it’ll work on B450 and X470, but it has some strict technical limitations (as we discussed previously). Q&A with AMD here.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 - Intro & Recapping AMD’s Announcement
06:38 - Will X370, B350, & A320 Be Supported? All 400 Boards?
10:18 - Why Didn’t AMD Respond Sooner? Why Was it Dropped?
11:35 - Q&A: Why Can’t I Flash Back? Are Boot Kits Available?
15:34 - Will I Get Ongoing AGESA, Performance, & Security Updates?
18:04 - “Verified” Owners of 400-Series? Warranty Support?
21:42 - Why Did AMD Change Marketing from “Through” to “Til”
22:10 - Will This Update Work Regardless of 16/32MB BIOS Size?
23:45 - Will You Limit or Disable Features of Zen 3 on 400-series?
25:33 - Will 500-Series Support a DDR4/DDR5 Split?
27:00 - Conclusion


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LowTierScum wrote: yes this is a sad decision to cater to the cry babies out there that want support. this is going to hurt their budget and manufuacuters that now have to forced to make bios updates on those boards. those boards were limited by the bios chips that is why b450 was budget board and replaced with b550 for better support and compatability. not to mention they AMD said EOL was 2020 so this is disgusting behavior by people. now why will people buy more expenive boards when they can buy the cheaper ones and use 4xxx cpu but it will be crippled. probably wont turbo to the max and ram limitation. it was a very stupid move. they should have gone on and move forward like they said to keep intel on their toes.

I mean it's a chipset, you have to know that the function is very limited here esp regarding "performance" aspect. Some B350s perform better than the average 450s of not at near top. So there will be worse B550s.

Regarding the "losing revenue argument" you can make the opposite claim much better and AMD for sure knows this, that customers can/will also upgrade to a better/newer processor if their board has long time support. And instead of jumping the AMD ship because Intel just dunked on their competitor they can wait for a better product on their old board, keep the platform alive.
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Soichiro wrote: AMD Exclusive Q&A: Zen 3 & X370, B450 Feature Blocking, DDR5, & Post-Mortem



Zarkey wrote: I mean it's a chipset, you have to know that the function is very limited here esp regarding "performance" aspect. Some B350s perform better than the average 450s of not at near top. So there will be worse B550s.

Regarding the "losing revenue argument" you can make the opposite claim much better and AMD for sure knows this, that customers can/will also upgrade to a better/newer processor if their board has long time support. And instead of jumping the AMD ship because Intel just dunked on their competitor they can wait for a better product on their old board, keep the platform alive.
i just watch both youtube videos above and from the last one gathered the information that i understand about this mess.

-the BIOS will be crippled on the b450 and X470 chipset because of the ROM size limitation to implement the new support of CPU
-features can be disabled and crippled on those b450 X470 chipsets if the 4000 series CPU have newer instructions that are meant for & supported on b550 and X570 chipset
-basically using a b450 and x470 board with a 4xxx series CPU, I will see Intel doing better on the benchmarks due to chipset limitation.

reading comments their yt and on /r/ i am understanding that crippling the UEFI BIOS to a more basic one. Face With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of Joy
some people are trying to justify its OK to even go as far back to a basic blue/white keyboard only BIOS. Face With Tears Of JoyFace With Tears Of Joy wow.
the purpose of these enhanced UEFI bios is to tweak all the different setting from RAM to CPU to etc. Its more complicated now then it was back in the day. now is not the time for blue/white basic BIOS anymore. we have moved forward,
bios update will only work if you have a b450 and a ryzen 3000cpu.?? If you have 2000 or 1000 series cpu, it will not work, ?? in case some novice bricks their setup. ?? AMD already made sure of that.

also their "timing" for everyone is too perfect.
preorder have begun for Z490 Socket 1200 chipset + i5, i7, i9 10xxx series CPU
with the crappiest i5 being 6c/12T 2.9GHz base / 4.3GHz all core boost.
i see intel doing better benching then b450 with 4xxx cpu and bios cripple.
just from what i am noticing. - i am not an intel fanboy i am just comparing what is going on now with this bious update mess.
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AMD backed themselves off a cliff to add 4xxx support on B450 and X470 boards... *sigh*
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I don't agree with their decision at all and they should NOT have caved. They made it clear from the beginning of their road map, they can expect things to be the way they were 10+ years ago (anyone remember LGA775?). Those times are gone.

I think the best thing the community can do is constantly recommend a 500 series chipset for the 3000/4000 series chips.
Nothing to see here...keep looking.
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ProjectPixelation wrote: Edit3: Please keep in mind Ryzen 4xxx performance will be bottlenecked on B450/X470 boards due to ram speed limitations on said chipsets
Chipsets don't determine RAM speed, the CPU does. Now, newer boards could have better paths, but this is far less relevant than what I/O chiplet your CPU has.

Case: A friend couldn't get the 3900x he wanted at launch, so he bought a X570 + fancy RAM and he bought a used Ryzen 1700 in the interim. Couldn't get RAM to run past 2966, no matter what he did. When he got the 3900x, the same RAM, same motherboard, happily runs at 3733.

I'll also note my cheap DDR4-3600 RAM only ran at 2933 with my 1700x, but runs at 3200 with my 2700x, and almost definitely would run at 3600 with a 3xxx/4xxx chip.
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ChubChub wrote: Chipsets don't determine RAM speed, the CPU does. Now, newer boards could have better paths, but this is far less relevant than what I/O chiplet your CPU has.

Case: A friend couldn't get the 3900x he wanted at launch, so he bought a X570 + fancy RAM and he bought a used Ryzen 1700 in the interim. Couldn't get RAM to run past 2966, no matter what he did. When he got the 3900x, the same RAM, same motherboard, happily runs at 3733.

I'll also note my cheap DDR4-3600 RAM only ran at 2933 with my 1700x, but runs at 3200 with my 2700x, and almost definitely would run at 3600 with a 3xxx/4xxx chip.
You do realize that the boards are designed along with the CPUs right? Which means VRM and chipset cooling is designed and based on existing CPUs (including Ram speed considerations). Unless you expect AMD to predict the future and design VRMs/Chipsets cooling on B450/X470 for ram based on 4xxx Ryzen? lol

AMD made it quite clear B450/x470 is ELO in 2020.
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ProjectPixelation wrote: You do realize that the boards are designed along with the CPUs right? Which means VRM and chipset cooling is designed and based on existing CPUs (including Ram speed considerations). Unless you expect AMD to predict the future and design VRMs/Chipsets cooling on B450/X470 for ram based on 4xxx Ryzen? lol

AMD made it quite clear B450/x470 is ELO in 2020.
Can you provide some sources or links where it says this? All I can find is talk of how long AM4 is going to be supported.
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Quickman wrote: Can you provide some sources or links where it says this? All I can find is talk of how long AM4 is going to be supported.
There are tons of articles about this on the web. Here is the original graph before all the whining and complaining started.
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.p ... ot-support!
Image

This is one of many.
AMD, announced that the new Zen 3 processors will only support x570 and B550 motherboards. Obviously when buying this high-end motherboard, my expectation is the possibility of Zen 3 support. In other words, I thought that the last processor it supported would be Zen 3. But now I was disappointed too.

It is written that the bios rom capacities are insufficient. CH7 uses 256MB Rom. Hopefully it provides Zen 3 support for asus ch7.
So yea, there will be BIOS issues already I can tell on b450 and X470 chipsets.
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heyyahblah wrote: There are tons of articles about this on the web. Here is the original graph before all the whining and complaining started.
https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthread.p ... ot-support!
Image

This is one of many.


So yea, there will be BIOS issues already I can tell on b450 and X470 chipsets.
That's recent. I'm asking for something where AMD made it clear B450/X470 would be EOL in 2020. Like back in 2018 or 2019.
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Quickman wrote: That's recent. I'm asking for something where AMD made it clear B450/X470 would be EOL in 2020. Like back in 2018 or 2019.
Oh okay, I'm sure there are a bunch of articles out there. This is just a quick example, I don't want to search all night but I've seen it discussed before on the web.

August 06 2018
https://www.msi.com/blog/amd-ryzen-b350 ... difference
Nonetheless, both B350 and B450 chipsets will support all AMD CPUs released until 2020.
Not exactly a "date specific" post by MSI, but it says until 2020. So how do you define 2020? My understanding of released until 2020 is December 31, 2019. But, it could have meant any time in 2020. Dec 31, 2019 - January 1, 2020 for all that matters. There are more articles out there. I still process the words until 2020 to me is December 31, 2019, when the last batch of all the 3xxx series processors dropped. So that does not include the new "2020" batch of the AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 processors, nor the upcoming 4xxx series. To me that definition is 2020 and beyond.
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heyyahblah wrote: Oh okay, I'm sure there are a bunch of articles out there. This is just a quick example, I don't want to search all night but I've seen it discussed before on the web.

August 06 2018
https://www.msi.com/blog/amd-ryzen-b350 ... difference

Not exactly a "date specific" post by MSI, but it says until 2020. So how do you define 2020? My understanding of released until 2020 is December 31, 2019. But, it could have meant any time in 2020. Dec 31, 2019 - January 1, 2020 for all that matters. There are more articles out there. I still process the words until 2020 to me is December 31, 2019, when the last batch of all the 3xxx series processors dropped. So that does not include the new "2020" batch of the AMD Ryzen 3 3300X and 3100 processors, nor the upcoming 4xxx series. To me that definition is 2020 and beyond.
I'm looking for something AMD said. Honestly the only thing I've seen AMD say is AM4 support "through 2020" and "until 2020". Nothing chipset/board specific. And AMD is indeed supporting the AM4 socket through 2020, right?
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Quickman wrote: I'm looking for something AMD said. Honestly the only thing I've seen AMD say is AM4 support "through 2020" and "until 2020". Nothing chipset/board specific. And AMD is indeed supporting the AM4 socket through 2020, right?
They (AMD) are using the exact same wording that Intel did, hence why I don't understand the confusion and the masses getting upset, because it's the same socket (AM4) but the chipset support is different.

If you recall, as an exmaple, Intel had 4 generations on the same socket. (1151) 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th, but only chose to support 6 & 7 on 110/170 and 210/270 chipsets. Intel forced consumers to go 310/370/390 for 8th and 9th gen processors, while still using the same socket (1151). So same wording as AMD. Support of AM4 fine the socket is the same, but that doesn't mean they have to necessarily support the chipset which is exactly what Intel did. Also AMD was hella specific in saying that the bios rom capacities are insufficient. CH7 uses 256MB ROM. I think that is/was the issue.

There was an article written were enthusiasts manged to get an i3-8350K (8th gen) Intel CPU working on a Z170 motherboard (unsupported), but they had to hack & rewrite the BIOS/ROM which dropped support of 6th and 7th gen CPU's on that motherboard, just to code in an i3-8350k, and it also crippled features as well. Also the RAM clock speed was crippled. No follow up if they ever got the i5-8600K to work.

https://videocardz.com/74298/z170-mothe ... e-i3-8350k

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