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Propane vs natural gas price in Ontario

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  • Mar 29th, 2022 9:29 pm
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 20, 2012
40 posts
20 upvotes
SCARBOROUGH

Propane vs natural gas price in Ontario

I am planning to buy a BBQ, and I am debating a propane or natural gas.

So assume I already have natural gas pipe outside and I can just connect the BBQ.

Now about the propane vs natural gas price.

Usually the refill price for propane is $1 per litre.
I checked my gas bill, in summer time, it is about $1 per cubic meter.
Propane contains more energy. On average, 1 cubic foot of propane contains 2500 BTU energy, and 1 cubic foot of natural gas contains 1000 BTU of energy. So, propane contains 2.5 times more energy then natural gas.

Volume wise, the propane is 1000 times more expensive then natural gas, but propane contains 2.5 times more energy then natural gas, so based on the above, propane is 400 times more expansive than natural gas?

This sounds very very unreasonable.....can you guys figure out where the problem is?
24 replies
Deal Expert
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Feb 11, 2007
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GTA
How much do you BBQ that fuel price is a concern?
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Deal Addict
Apr 18, 2005
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Mississauga
Ouch.. too complicated to read all that.
Cost me $200 to get NG line extended to connect my BBQ (from a friend) and never worry about running out mid BBQ or going and getting cyl filled.... Done.
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 20, 2012
40 posts
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SCARBOROUGH
engineered wrote: How much do you BBQ that fuel price is a concern?
No, it is not a concern of money, more like "is it reasonable that propane is 400 times more expensive than NG"
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Oct 13, 2008
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Durham
goiceland wrote: No, it is not a concern of money, more like "is it reasonable that propane is 400 times more expensive than NG"
Tons of things in the world that price is "unreasonable" .... ie Gasoline prices ...

Propane versus Natural Gas ... probably if you live a hundred years and use it daily ... then it definitely makes a difference .. otherwise ... not a big deal.
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Mar 14, 2022
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Outer GTA
NG. You can never run out mid steak.

That is all. The end.
I like yummy food!
Deal Expert
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Feb 11, 2007
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goiceland wrote: No, it is not a concern of money, more like "is it reasonable that propane is 400 times more expensive than NG"
You're also buying NG in bulk vs LPG by the tank. It's like comparing tap water vs bottled water.
Don't forget to include all of the fixed costs into your NG (monthly fees, etc).
jdmfishingonly wrote: Tons of things in the world that price is "unreasonable" .... ie Gasoline prices ...

Propane versus Natural Gas ... probably if you live a hundred years and use it daily ... then it definitely makes a difference .. otherwise ... not a big deal.
Bottled water is more expensive than gasoline!
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
Sr. Member
Dec 24, 2007
618 posts
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engineered wrote: You're also buying NG in bulk vs LPG by the tank. It's like comparing tap water vs bottled water.
check out bulk pricing on propane in ontario:
https://bryansfuel.on.ca/view-fuel-prices/

i dont buy my propane from these guys but price is very similar. bulk propane after carbon taxes is over 1$/l

go natural gas if you can. i heat my house with a mix of electricity and propane because no natural gas available
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Feb 11, 2007
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According to this site, LPG can be up to 6x more than NG. Which sounds like a more realistic figure than what the OP came up with.

https://www.firstcallheating.ca/blog/pr ... -gas-bbqs/
While natural gas BBQs have more upfront costs, natural gas is a cheaper fuel than propane. Natural gas can be as much as one-sixth of the cost of propane. That being said, you’ll also need to consider installation costs for a BBQ gas line if you don’t already have one.

On the flip side, it’s ideal to have at least two propane tanks on hand so you always have a backup supply of propane. Also, tanks expire over time and will need to be replaced. Once the natural gas line installation is complete, you have an endless supply of natural gas at the flip of a valve. No more rolling propane tanks down the side of the house, into the vehicle, and down to the gas station for regular fill-ups!
If the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.
[OP]
Newbie
Jun 20, 2012
40 posts
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SCARBOROUGH
I figured out why!

The price for $1 per litre propane is liquid litre, and the $1 per m3 of NG is is gaseous.... 1L of liquid LPG equals 270L of gaseous LPG, that explains it! So price difference is about 3 times after BTU conversion.
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Dec 27, 2007
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Edmonton
jdmfishingonly wrote: Tons of things in the world that price is "unreasonable" .... ie Gasoline prices ...

Propane versus Natural Gas ... probably if you live a hundred years and use it daily ... then it definitely makes a difference .. otherwise ... not a big deal.
Not sure how you figure gasoline price is unreasonable. Maybe all the other times when price was low it was unreasonable and now it’s back to what it’s supposed to be? I mean, do you know how much work is involved to make gasoline?
warming up the earth 1 gas fill-up at a time...
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Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2007
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Edmonton
goiceland wrote: I figured out why!

The price for $1 per litre propane is liquid litre, and the $1 per m3 of NG is is gaseous.... 1L of liquid LPG equals 270L of gaseous LPG, that explains it! So price difference is about 3 times after BTU conversion.
You went through a whole lot of extremes of math and calculation to get an answer you could find on google easily. I like the whole thought process and all. Good job
warming up the earth 1 gas fill-up at a time...
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Deal Addict
Nov 17, 2012
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As others have said, it doesn't matter how much more or less NG is than LP. If you have a NG line to supply a grill, you'd have to be a world class moron to not use it and lug propane tanks around instead.
Member
Dec 21, 2020
354 posts
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tmkf_patryk wrote: Not sure how you figure gasoline price is unreasonable. Maybe all the other times when price was low it was unreasonable and now it’s back to what it’s supposed to be? I mean, do you know how much work is involved to make gasoline?
The amount of work to make gasoline hasn't changed in the two years since it was 69 cents a liter (what I paid at Costco in March 2020) vs now when it's 170 cents a liter. Not twice as much. Most of the cost comes from the fact that gasoline is made from oil which is a commodity that has it's price fluctuate based on the markets. If we really wanted to Canada has enough oil to make gas super cheap all the time. But our current government is hell bent on making sure that never happens.
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Dec 27, 2007
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RCLapCar wrote: The amount of work to make gasoline hasn't changed in the two years since it was 69 cents a liter (what I paid at Costco in March 2020) vs now when it's 170 cents a liter. Not twice as much. Most of the cost comes from the fact that gasoline is made from oil which is a commodity that has it's price fluctuate based on the markets. If we really wanted to Canada has enough oil to make gas super cheap all the time. But our current government is hell bent on making sure that never happens.
So you still fail to acknowledge that maybe before (2 years ago) maybe the price was unreasonably low?

First off, you have no idea how much work is involved in getting gasoline just from your answer. 2nd off, you are wrong and there is more work involved to get it now than before. You also do know there are different grades and types of oil. As we keep digging out oil, we are spending more and more resources to get it (digging it further away from the slurry plant, deeper down, human labour costs more, etc etc)

I just googled price of gasoline 10 years ago. It deirected me to a report for July 2013. So not 10 years ago but close enough
Government of Canada website pops up. Average retail gasoline price in July 9 2013 is $1.32 and diesel was $1.24

So you tanked up at 1.70. Price has increased 29%.
Look at other factors. Wage, my wage has increased multitudes more than 29%.
Inflation. We just had 5.7% over the LAST YEAR.
Houses, look how much houses have gone up.
Investments. Any of the big banks pay out roughly 4% dividends and grow 6% a year, so 10% on average (you need to extrapolate more than a few years, this is average)


In the end, your post shows you are absolutely clueless. Thank you
warming up the earth 1 gas fill-up at a time...
You only live once, get a v8
Member
Dec 21, 2020
354 posts
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The cost of gasoline is most affected by the cost of the oil. Things like wages and inflation are minor compared to that. Whenever OPEC decides to increase production the price of oil drops and gas follows. Same when they decide to cut production. It's simple supply and demand of the raw materials. Funny you should mention house prices but that is also basically a supply/demand issue as well. Too many people wanting too few available (desirable) houses causing bidding wars and higher prices.
Member
Mar 14, 2022
260 posts
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Outer GTA
Hopefully I will be able to punch a natural gas line in for my grill this summer and ditch the propane tanks.
I like yummy food!
Deal Addict
Dec 27, 2007
4149 posts
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Edmonton
RCLapCar wrote: The cost of gasoline is most affected by the cost of the oil. Things like wages and inflation are minor compared to that. Whenever OPEC decides to increase production the price of oil drops and gas follows. Same when they decide to cut production. It's simple supply and demand of the raw materials. Funny you should mention house prices but that is also basically a supply/demand issue as well. Too many people wanting too few available (desirable) houses causing bidding wars and higher prices.
So we agree, gas prices are NOT unreasonable. You should know that wages and inflation are not minor however, there are THOUSANDS of workers on a site just to get oil, and this is just oil, not a refined product like gasoline ( where again there are tons more people…..)

And I’m not even going to mention the maintenance required (some scheduled, alot not scheduled) and additional manpower for these times and then the manpower required to make materials for these times…..

And again, this is 1 site…..
warming up the earth 1 gas fill-up at a time...
You only live once, get a v8
Deal Guru
Jan 25, 2007
11452 posts
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Paris
engineered wrote: According to this site, LPG can be up to 6x more than NG. Which sounds like a more realistic figure than what the OP came up with.
We did the math at the cottage a few years back (pre-2016 as Obama was still around). Typically propane at the cottage is 5.5-6.5 times what NG is at home. That winter it was 11 times. To the point where it briefly became cheaper by BTU to use electricity to heat the cottage vs delivered propane in our giant tank.

Bottled is higher depending on where you buy it. By the litre at Costco is good, the swappers at Cdn Tire and the gas station are typically 10-15x more as they don’t fill those tanks beyond around 14-16 pounds, when they can take 20 pounds (before you say 80%! The tanks are designed for 24 pounds so 80% is actually 19.6 pounds)
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Sep 27, 2011
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NG is better for the convenience alone, running out of the propane mid cook is reason enough to switch to ng :)
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