PC & Video Games

PS5 vs Xbox vs PC debate thread

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M1GOmigs wrote: If you look beyond that initial tweet to his subsequent ones he's saying neither is good or bad (yet) but there is a distortion of facts that is making it out like MS is the big bad when they are both just companies.



Nobody here is saying MS is a benevolent Saint but y'all are really white knighting for PS like they owe you something here
Now I'm failing to see how the term applies here. Just because I'm not siding with Microsoft doesn't mean I'm defending everything Sony. If you look back, I never liked it when Sony was wiping the floor with MS the last gen and a half. It stifles competition and doesn't make good for console gamers as a whole. The difference was that MS always had an ace up its sleeve, the company is a monetary behemoth and could turn the tide pretty quickly. When the Bethesda thing happened that was just an indicator to me that MS was getting serious and playing catch up. But this deal feels a lot more "Microsoft Riches" in comparison. Even if MS doesn't keep all those IP's to themselves short term, nothing prevents them from doing that into the future.

I prefer some competition, it makes for fun games and threads.
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M1GOmigs wrote: Ok but why this thread specifically? You're an adult who likes to argue... Even you must see the enormous straw man you've built in this thread when there's a perfectly good discussion thread about the actual topic you brought up.

TOPIC: Xbox vs PS console war

Your argument: Activision is embroiled in legal issues surrounding harrassment and now MS has purchased them so therefore...

What?
You're stretching and I won't respond to it. If you need internet points, let me +1 the post I'm responding to.
Honestly if you're seeing a negative narrative from every post I make then ignore me, or move past it. I feel no urge to defend my posts as this is moving towards a very churlish game.
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BernardRyder wrote: Now I'm failing to see how the term applies here. Just because I'm not siding with Microsoft doesn't mean I'm defending everything Sony. If you look back, I never liked it when Sony was wiping the floor with MS the last gen and a half. It stifles competition and doesn't make good for console gamers as a whole. The difference was that MS always had an ace up its sleeve, the company is a monetary behemoth and could turn the tide pretty quickly. When the Bethesda thing happened that was just an indicator to me that MS was getting serious and playing catch up. But this deal feels a lot more "Microsoft Riches" in comparison. Even if MS doesn't keep all those IP's to themselves short term, nothing prevents them from doing that into the future.

I prefer some competition, it makes for fun games and threads.
You realize that even with this acquisition, XBox is still only 3rd in market share right? There is competition and this is MS trying to be competitive.

But there is a very vocal contingent of PS fanboys who are really going out of their way to discredit a company that is doing business. Would there be the same amount of vitriol if Apple, Alphabet or Amazon made this acquisition? For some, the console war has become so personal that they go to great lengths to white knight for their plastic box. Maybe that's not you and if I made that mistake then I apologize. But go on any Twitter thread about this acquisition and it's still very obvious to see who leads in marketshare by the number of users who are going to bat with Twitter responses.
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BernardRyder wrote: ....
I prefer some competition, it makes for fun games and threads.
This is why I'm waiting on Sony's move. Making murky remarks about MS is not going to help Sony being competitive. Historically, people have a more negative look towards MS than most (hell people still say Bill Gates is involved in a Covid mass conspiracy). I know I join in and poke fun at many MS things and I don't really care one way or another. But that union business remark in this thread I really don't get (and I am a unionized employee Winking Face)
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BernardRyder wrote: You're stretching and I won't respond to it. If you need internet points, let me +1 the post I'm responding to.
Honestly if you're seeing a negative narrative from every post I make then ignore me, or move past it. I feel no urge to defend my posts as this is moving towards a very churlish game.
I keep my spicier posts for this thread because this is what it's for. I don't think I've ever been confrontational with you anywhere else on this forum and I only reserve the ignore button for people who truly go out of their way to troll with misinformation.

I really don't care for +1s so whatever, but I had to call out the straw man in the thread because in all fairness there really is a separate discussion for that where you can get insightful discussion, and posting it here served a different purpose than making idle discussion... But that's all I'll say about that too.
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M1GOmigs wrote: You realize that even with this acquisition, XBox is still only 3rd in market share right? There is competition and this is MS trying to be competitive.

But there is a very vocal contingent of PS fanboys who are really going out of their way to discredit a company that is doing business. Would there be the same amount of vitriol if Apple, Alphabet or Amazon made this acquisition? For some, the console war has become so personal that they go to great lengths to white knight for their plastic box.
Regarding the "3rd in market share" narrative. Some media people like to say that a lot, but it doesn't apply as a metric here, as has been pointed out by @jeffyjaixx previously. Sometimes these media Twitter types just use it as a defence of Xbox, but looking at this thread, we can see why it's not a good defence.

It's been said here for a while that Xbox is moving towards a subscription market, so the consoles they sell at a loss don't really equate into the argument anymore. Their subs work on the console, PC, and mobile.
Also the Xbone was abysmal in sales so sales wise it brings numbers down and is an anomaly to the argument. Current gen games are really previous gen games, meaning you throw the Xbone and PS4 into the "3rd in market share" argument, now you have a very lopsided result, no question Sony is killing it versus Xbox for console sales.
But... as some point out in this very thread, the XSX/S might be selling better than is being reported and might be closer the PS5 sales than we know. Of course there is always the problem that MS doesn't share sales numbers. But that doesn't matter because they instead share Subscription numbers. I believe @9394 was pointing out a few months ago how well those sales were going, quite impressive.
While Sony has PS+ and a lot of subs, I don't think they have the growth numbers of GP, and I believe GP has more subs overall. So what does 3rd in Market share even mean anymore? Even if they are third, are we accounting for subs and methods used to access those games? Personally, at worst, I see a huge incoming upward trend for Xbox that won't translate to boxes sold. Are they still in the "boxes sold" business now with the Activision acquisition? Or as was said here, they are moving past consoles and shoring up for competition against Meta and Tencent and Alphabet, none of whom sell boxes either? With the Activision purchase price, they're telling us who their direct competition really is.
I'm legitimately wondering, have the console wars ended and we just don't realize it yet? These are the things I'm connecting, and thoughts I'm having, from this thread. Gotta throw this overused meme in here now Face With Tears Of Joy

As far as the last part, I won't address it because it's just the usual silly and tired name calling that pops up here once in a while. I respect you enough to ignore it this time

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CFRTim wrote: This is why I'm waiting on Sony's move. Making murky remarks about MS is not going to help Sony being competitive. Historically, people have a more negative look towards MS than most (hell people still say Bill Gates is involved in a Covid mass conspiracy). I know I join in and poke fun at many MS things and I don't really care one way or another. But that union business remark in this thread I really don't get (and I am a unionized employee Winking Face)
Neither does trying to make me feel bad about a trillion dollar company being third in the console war Face With Tears Of Joy
Maybe I'm being too negative, but Sony's moves have been small and (HERE IT COMES AGAIN, @Caerus COVER YOUR EARS BUDDY) "organic" in comparison. Is it that they don't feel they have to make big moves because they're winning? The problem with that logic, that's not a very Capitalist Market move! So then they're stupid, right? Nope. They're making those small and slow acquisitions because that's all they can do, they're not a Microsoft-sized company. If Sony was that large, they would have bought Bethesda, Activision and EA before anyone else Face With Tears Of Joy
Doesn't mean I think the billionaire company is poor, but in comparison to Microsoft, daaammn they sure are! They're like me, just flexing an empty PS5 box in a neighborhood full of BMW's and Audis Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Cold Sweat
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BernardRyder wrote: Neither does trying to make me feel bad about a trillion dollar company being third in the console war Face With Tears Of Joy
Maybe I'm being too negative, but Sony's moves have been small and (HERE IT COMES AGAIN, @Caerus COVER YOUR EARS BUDDY) "organic" in comparison. Is it that they don't feel they have to make big moves because they're winning? The problem with that logic, that's not a very Capitalist Market move! So then they're stupid, right? Nope. They're making those small and slow acquisitions because that's all they can do, they're not a Microsoft-sized company. If Sony was that large, they would have bought Bethesda, Activision and EA before anyone else Face With Tears Of Joy
Doesn't mean I think the billionaire company is poor, but in comparison to Microsoft, daaammn they sure are! They're like me, just flexing an empty PS5 box in a neighborhood full of BMW's and Audis Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Cold Sweat
Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes

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Fine, Sony bought organic plants for organic growth in their organic garden. Microsoft happens to have organic farms and bought some organic seed manufacturers because they plan to be an organic plant distributor. It's all organic, one is just organic while the other is ORGANIC.
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BernardRyder wrote: Regarding the "3rd in market share" narrative. Some media people like to say that a lot, but it doesn't apply as a metric here, as has been pointed out by @jeffyjaixx previously. Sometimes these media Twitter types just use it as a defence of Xbox, but looking at this thread, we can see why it's not a good defence.

It's been said here for a while that Xbox is moving towards a subscription market, so the consoles they sell at a loss don't really equate into the argument anymore. Their subs work on the console, PC, and mobile.
Also the Xbone was abysmal in sales so sales wise it brings numbers down and is an anomaly to the argument. Current gen games are really previous gen games, meaning you throw the Xbone and PS4 into the "3rd in market share" argument, now you have a very lopsided result, no question Sony is killing it versus Xbox for console sales.
But... as some point out in this very thread, the XSX/S might be selling better than is being reported and might be closer the PS5 sales than we know. Of course there is always the problem that MS doesn't share sales numbers. But that doesn't matter because they instead share Subscription numbers. I believe @9394 was pointing out a few months ago how well those sales were going, quite impressive.
While Sony has PS+ and a lot of subs, I don't think they have the growth numbers of GP, and I believe GP has more subs overall. So what does 3rd in Market share even mean anymore? Even if they are third, are we accounting for subs and methods used to access those games? Personally, at worst, I see a huge incoming upward trend for Xbox that won't translate to boxes sold. Are they still in the "boxes sold" business now with the Activision acquisition? Or as was said here, they are moving past consoles and shoring up for competition against Meta and Tencent and Alphabet, none of whom sell boxes either? With the Activision purchase price, they're telling us who their direct competition really is.
I'm legitimately wondering, have the console wars ended and we just don't realize it yet? These are the things I'm connecting, and thoughts I'm having, from this thread. Gotta throw this overused meme in here now Face With Tears Of Joy

As far as the last part, I won't address it because it's just the usual silly and tired name calling that pops up here once in a while. I respect you enough to ignore it this time
Hey man, I respect your opinions around this site too, and I'll lay off the fanboy naming and shaming.

Have the console wars ended? They really only still exist for the extremely vocal minority who love to keep it alive to justify their allegiance to a particular brand. I don't think it's far-fetched to say that most of the posters who have contributed to this vs thread are probably doing it for fun, as a way to troll others... Myself included.

Truth be told I don't want COD to become exclusive and I think it would be a mistake from a gaming perspective as well as a financial one. Crossplay is one of the best things to happen to gaming in recent years, and the ability to play multiplayer games across consoles has allowed me to play games with friends and family who I otherwise wouldn't have access to.

I've brought up my own misgivings about corporate consolidation in the other thread and it's a wait and see to figure out if this ultimately becomes bad for the industry, but right now MS has done mostly right by gamers and I trust that there will be some concessions given for Sony users.

And if say COD does become exclusive, at the very least there are both expensive (PC) and relatively cheap(XBox Series S) ways for people to access those games.
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I can't wait to see Sony's upcoming "organic" move. Maybe they'll go one up and pull a "beyond acquisition" Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes
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M1GOmigs wrote: Hey man, I respect your opinions around this site too, and I'll lay off the fanboy naming and shaming.

Have the console wars ended? They really only still exist for the extremely vocal minority who love to keep it alive to justify their allegiance to a particular brand. I don't think it's far-fetched to say that most of the posters who have contributed to this vs thread are probably doing it for fun, as a way to troll others... Myself included.

Truth be told I don't want COD to become exclusive and I think it would be a mistake from a gaming perspective as well as a financial one. Crossplay is one of the best things to happen to gaming in recent years, and the ability to play multiplayer games across consoles has allowed me to play games with friends and family who I otherwise wouldn't have access to.

I've brought up my own misgivings about corporate consolidation in the other thread and it's a wait and see to figure out if this ultimately becomes bad for the industry, but right now MS has done mostly right by gamers and I trust that there will be some concessions given for Sony users.

And if say COD does become exclusive, at the very least there are both expensive (PC) and relatively cheap(XBox Series S) ways for people to access those games.
I must admit I'm waiting for What Next at this point too. Maybe I'm completely off my rocker and it's not all as (Xbox exclusive) Doom and Gloom as it sounds, but time will tell what Microsoft decides for us all. If Activision and Bethesda games go exclusive as I think they will, then PlayStation will be a tough sell.
And I actually like the idea of exclusives on each console! It's been like that forever for me, so I'm used to it. I don't think Sony should have some of the exclusives they have, but most of them are temporary deals that can move elsewhere, like the FF series. Sony doesn't own them, it's more a temporary agreement that benefits the studios as much as the console.makers. I always saw it as something that kept the console companies competitive, fresh and interesting for gamers. How many of you owned PlayStation but shifted to Xbox for example? Competition made that so.
But owning Activision and Bethesda is exclusivity on a different scale. Their games would never come back if they leave. So now we wait...
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Caerus wrote:
Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes

Image

Fine, Sony bought organic plants for organic growth in their organic garden. Microsoft happens to have organic farms and bought some organic seed manufacturers because they plan to be an organic plant distributor. It's all organic, one is just organic while the other is ORGANIC.
CFRTim wrote: I can't wait to see Sony's upcoming "organic" move. Maybe they'll go one up and pull a "beyond acquisition" Smiling Face With Open Mouth And Smiling Eyes
Oh yeah, yeah, OK, you two chuckleheads can laugh it up, it's all good! Organic can be your new thing and ignore the signs of the coming Apocalypse!!! Face Screaming In FearFace Screaming In FearFace Screaming In Fear
Can't wait for Xbox to organically raise the price of GP to a market value that reflects all the new employees they need to pay for, and to compete with the Alphabets, Metas, Tencents...

You two will organically excrete in your pants then Pile Of PooFace With Tears Of Joy
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BernardRyder wrote: I must admit I'm waiting for What Next at this point too. Maybe I'm completely off my rocker and it's not all as (Xbox exclusive) Doom and Gloom as it sounds, but time will tell what Microsoft decides for us all. If Activision and Bethesda games go exclusive as I think they will, then PlayStation will be a tough sell.
And I actually like the idea of exclusives on each console! It's been like that forever for me, so I'm used to it. I don't think Sony should have some of the exclusives they have, but most of them are temporary deals that can move elsewhere, like the FF series. Sony doesn't own them, it's more a temporary agreement that benefits the studios as much as the console.makers. I always saw it as something that kept the console companies competitive, fresh and interesting for gamers. How many of you owned PlayStation but shifted to Xbox for example? Competition made that so.
But owning Activision and Bethesda is exclusivity on a different scale. Their games would never come back if they leave. So now we wait...
I've jumped back and forth over the past three generations and at this point I'm influenced more about what platform gives me the best value and which one is the place that lets me play with my friends the easiest.

I don't see the acquisition as an indication that every game will be exclusive, especially in contrast to Bethesda, who publishes primarily single person narrative games. I trust that there will be some considerations to make some games multiplatform because it would be foolish to leave that much money on the table... People will say that "you don't spend $68B to share your games", but they're ignoring the amount of money this franchise brings in from a casual multiplayer standpoint. COD could very well become a series of live service games that stay persistent over multiple years instead of an annual ever-changing release...

I suspect at the very least, multiplayer aspects of some of these games will be offered on PS. In COD's case, whether that means only Warzone will go multiplatform, or WZ + Multiplayer will be interesting to see. I don't know if the same olive branch gets extended for Overwatch or Diablo though.
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BernardRyder wrote: ........

You two will organically excrete in your pants then Pile Of PooFace With Tears Of Joy
Lol
I will right after Brady wins the game
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Brady's already down big to the Rams.

CFRTim wrote: Lol
I will right after Brady wins the game
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CFRTim wrote: I'm sure Falcons fans were thinking that when they were up 28-3 in 3rd quarter of that Superbowl. We're only at beginning of 2 quarter here Face With Stuck-out Tongue And Winking Eye
Anyway, to keep things on topic @BernardRyder
The days of Xbox Game Pass being tech’s best bargain are now numbered
Yeah it is just an obvious eventuality, as prices of everything go up. Now some things during this pandemic though, sheesh...
Your kids' PC's are going to feel like a bargain soon, maybe you'll regret not buying one for yourself Winking Face
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BernardRyder wrote: Oh yeah, yeah, OK, you two chuckleheads can laugh it up, it's all good! Organic can be your new thing and ignore the signs of the coming Apocalypse!!! Face Screaming In FearFace Screaming In FearFace Screaming In Fear
Can't wait for Xbox to organically raise the price of GP to a market value that reflects all the new employees they need to pay for, and to compete with the Alphabets, Metas, Tencents...

You two will organically excrete in your pants then Pile Of PooFace With Tears Of Joy
I'm mocking the term. I never dismissed anything regarding the scale. I stand by "organic growth" as a stupid marketing term. Just like Apple uses wording like "magic" and "courage". "Courage" when they took away the headphone jack, conveniently when they had Beats and had wireless headphones/earbuds on the market. Or saying they were "thinking of the environment" when they took away including a phone charger in the box. Business decisions, hidden behind positive wording, to change the perception for the public.

The AB deal was Phil Spencer doing what was necessary to survive in the coming 10 - 20 years. Lets also not forget that this was AB who was approaching others, looking to be bought. MS didn't go to them first.

But, this is bigger than consoles. I see it as Phil thinking, "Okay this is the direction the market and industry are going potentially post console. We need to be prepared, and one of the leaders when that transition happens."

Look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embracer_Group and what they've been doing just recently as well.
As of December 2021, Embracer Group has ten operative groups consisting of 111 internal studios and publishers and the overall group had a total of about 12,150 employees in 45 different countries.[54][35][55]
Now just going back to consoles, Sony tried to do to Xbox, what they did to SEGA. Try to strong arm them out of the industry. Buying exclusivity deals, paying to just keep everything they could off Xbox, charging publishers extra if they made games for PS4 and Xbox, fighting against cross platform, and trying to convince everyone that Xbox was an evil invader. Playstation literally entered the market by throwing money around, paying for exclusivity deals, and publishing. They also tried to own all Nintendo properties released on the SNES CD as well. They were, and have been ruthless in their approach to market dominance. SEGA didn't have the money to survive and compete with Sony, Xbox obviously did, despite almost folding last gen.

Everyone in this industry has been playing dirty. I'm not suddenly going to feel bad for Sony now that competition has taken off around them.

Tencent, Facebook Gaming, Amazon, Google, Embracer Group, Microsoft, etc. It's competition of titans. If Sony had the capital they'd be in it as well.
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CFRTim wrote: I don't, my 2 kids say otherwise



You can share the same GPU within the household/family.
Did you use the Turkish VPN trick, how much was it all in these days. I assume still no tax on CDKeys purchase. There was not tax last time I bought 12mths Live Gold from Costco
We can share the GPU even if we want to play the same game at the same time to coop? Yeah Brazil VPN trick is the cheapest now. Not turkey anymore.

It was $140.xx plus $1.13 for the GPU conversion.

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