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Question re: selling Tangerine streetwise funds in rrsp

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[OP]
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Sep 6, 2005
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Ottawa

Question re: selling Tangerine streetwise funds in rrsp

I called them today, but apparently nobody can answer my questions till Monday.

At some point in the near future I'd like to move some of my rrsp out of the streetwise funds and into a GIC. I'm wondering if I tell them I want to sell, am I selling at the price that day or at a closing price in the future? The price fluctuates and I'd hate to have it drop after I place my order and before it settles! If it's a future unknown price, can I place a sell order at a target price?

I'm opening a People's Trust account, so I'm guessing I'd want the funds in my rsp cash account at Tangerine to transfer to a rsp cash account at PT, then from there into the GIC. Or is there a better way to do this?
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Sr. Member
May 22, 2004
695 posts
395 upvotes
Montreal
Mutual funds trade once per day. The funds will sell for the price at the end of the day you place the order (if it's placed before 3pm -- otherwise next day's closing price). The money should be in your cash account 3 business days later, once the trade settles. There is no way to make a limit order with Tangerine funds.

One small tip I can give you is to have People's Trust initiate the RSP transfer directly from your mutual fund RSP - there is currently no $45 transfer-out fee from Tangerine Funds. It says there is on the website, they fully plan to implement a fee, but it was not done yet as of about two weeks ago. Tangerine will sell the funds for you, write People's Trust a cheque, then once the money gets to your PT RSP cash account you can buy your GIC. You can't control exactly when your funds are sold this way, but I can almost guarantee you won't save more than $45 doing it yourself.
[OP]
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Sep 6, 2005
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Ottawa
Sorry about the noob type questions! Does the fund price change throughout the day? Online it looks like the price changes in the morning and is set for the day.....or is that just all they show? If I call at 2:45 pm will they have a current price that's different from what I see on their site?

Thanks for the info!
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Oct 9, 2005
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Mutual fund prices (NAV) are only calculated and updated once at the end of each trading day; brokerages typically have the cutoff for trades at that day's (to be determined) closing price at 2/3 PM Eastern so you do not know for certain what price it will trade at.

If a fund tracks a common or easily defined index, you can get decent idea of what the fund will close at, e.g. a TSX fund's price should follow the TSX.
Intricated
[OP]
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Sep 6, 2005
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Ok....this is starting to make some sense. It's the equity growth fund, which is 50% Canadian Stocks, 25% US & 25% International. If I see how the markets are doing on a given day when I'm ready to sell and they look up I shouldn't see a lower value at settlement? Prior to that I should find out what the cut-off time is and make sure I put the order in so the trade will occur same day. Does that sound like a plan?
Deal Addict
Mar 8, 2013
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although you will be able guess whether the fund will be up or down that day based on the indicies, you also need to factor in the Canadian Dollar exchange rate. If the C$ has a big rally on the day you sell, it will negatively affect the price of the non-Canadian holdings in the fund. I must say that I do not agree with what you plan to do. Even though Peoples Trust 5 year GIC rate of 2.65% may appear attractive today, this is your RSP and unless you need to guarantee a certain amount in 5 years or less, you will just be locking in a (historically) low return. And when the GIC matures, what then?

Perhaps your motivation is to take profits and/or avoid losses. In that case, why not switch some of the equity growth fund to the balanced fund? That replaces a portion of your equities with bonds, which has almost the same effect of what you are proposing.
[OP]
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Sep 6, 2005
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That's not a bad idea, I might do something like that. I'm looking at retiring in a few years, which will be early, and in order to pull it off I can't afford a drop. Looking back at my historical values there have been some down turns and I don't want to hit another one. Maybe the balanced fund makes more sense.
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Sep 24, 2007
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I also have equity growth funds. I use Bloomberg sptsx60 index to track the fund throughout the day.

To get the days closing price, I goto Morningstar here,http://quote.morningstar.ca/quicktakes/ ... ture=en-CA. It gets updated around 730pm EST, the day of.

This link shows the value of the fund as displayed on tangerines website https://www.tangerine.ca/en/datafiles/rates/egfund.html

Google Finance does not update regularly, maybe every 3-4 bus days but has a better chart with NAV values in it. GF would be great to use if they updated it every day. https://www.google.ca/finance?cid=82418589682714
[OP]
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Sep 6, 2005
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Ottawa
deadice wrote: I also have equity growth funds. I use Bloomberg sptsx60 index to track the fund throughout the day.

To get the days closing price, I goto Morningstar here,http://quote.morningstar.ca/quicktakes/ ... ture=en-CA. It gets updated around 730pm EST, the day of.

This link shows the value of the fund as displayed on tangerines website https://www.tangerine.ca/en/datafiles/rates/egfund.html

Google Finance does not update regularly, maybe every 3-4 bus days but has a better chart with NAV values in it. GF would be great to use if they updated it every day. https://www.google.ca/finance?cid=82418589682714
Very helpful, thanks! I've been tracking it the last few days and it makes sense.

I think I'm also going to take the advice given earlier in this thread and after this settles move the funds into Tangerine's Balanced Income Fund. If I understand it correctly since it's 70% Canadian Bonds it should be pretty stable, right? The historical returns look good anyway. Or maybe I'll put 50% in there and move the other 50% into People's Trust GIC's. Is there a way to track the performance of this fund during any given day? If I place a purchase order will it be filled at the closing price that day (fine if it doesn't actually show for a few days.....just wondering about the price)?
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Mar 8, 2013
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tryinginvain wrote: Very helpful, thanks! I've been tracking it the last few days and it makes sense.

I think I'm also going to take the advice given earlier in this thread and after this settles move the funds into Tangerine's Balanced Income Fund. If I understand it correctly since it's 70% Canadian Bonds it should be pretty stable, right? The historical returns look good anyway. Or maybe I'll put 50% in there and move the other 50% into People's Trust GIC's. Is there a way to track the performance of this fund during any given day? If I place a purchase order will it be filled at the closing price that day (fine if it doesn't actually show for a few days.....just wondering about the price)?
You should do a fund switch, either all or a $ amount. That way the sell and buy will be on the same day, and both funds will likely move roughly the same % - up or down.
[OP]
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Sep 6, 2005
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I didn't know that was an option! But if there's a way to track the inter-day movt of the Balanced Income Fund wouldn't it make more sense to wait a few days and buy when it's dropping in value?
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Oct 9, 2005
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I feel this is relevant to your situation: http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2013/05/ ... uy-in-now/

Buying at the low(est) point is cold, hard numerical sense. Investors and markets just don't act that way. You already have made the financial decision to adjust your asset allocation to better suit your risk tolerance, the answer to execution timing should be "now", not "when it's good". Plus, if you're doing a switch, you will likely be twice as reserved in pulling the trigger: you are tempted to wait for the existing holding to sell at a "high" and buy the new holding at a "low".

Anything else and you are taking on additional risk than your base asset allocation. With retirement in earshot and your risk/volatility tolerance lowering, staying any longer in higher risk/volatility assets is a cost you need to internalize and prioritize more than the day-to-day market swings.
Intricated
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Mar 8, 2013
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tryinginvain wrote: I didn't know that was an option! But if there's a way to track the inter-day movt of the Balanced Income Fund wouldn't it make more sense to wait a few days and buy when it's dropping in value?
With all due respect, you are kidding yourself if you think that you can time these short term movements. For example, suppose you sold yesterday rather than switched. Today xsp.to (S & P 500 ETF) was down 0.29%. Great, you say. However, xlb.to (Canadian long term bond ETF) was up 0.62%. So you probably lost 0.33% by waiting. Next week, who knows? Monday is a holiday in Canada. Suppose something happens so that on Tuesday the Canadian bond market opens up another 1%. Your mutual fund price is set at the end of the day. Are you going to wait some more?
[OP]
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Sep 6, 2005
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Fair enough, good points. I am trying to figure out how best to do this so I appreciate the advice. My thoughts re: waiting to buy back into the balanced income fund are based on the mov't I noticed this week. Small sample, but it's all I've done! On Monday it opened at 12.83/share and closed at 13.29. Tue it went back down and closed at 12.78. The rest of the week it stayed between 12.78 - 12.84 (except for the closing price today - which I don't know how to find out right now). I just wanted see if I could avoid buying on a day when it spiked like that.

That all said, due to what I saw earlier this week and the movement in the equity fund earlier today I called and transferred 1/2 into the balanced income fund and the other 1/2 in to my rsp cash account. With the cash I will either move it to People's Trust and put it in a 5 yr GIC or buy more funds..........not sure yet but I'm leaning towards the GIC's since I want to avoid risk at this point.

How likely is it the GIC at 2.65% for 5 years will outperform the balanced income fund? Is it extremely unlikely?

The equity fund closed at 16.13 today so I'm quite happy with the sale price. Now I just have to see if I can find out the closing price of the balanced income fund, or wait till next week to see what it is/was.
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Oct 9, 2005
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The best way involves a time machine, or at least a Delorean... and a hoverboard. I won't rehash on my perspective as you've already made your decision and started action.

This may be of relevance: http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2014/06/ ... d-returns/

30/70 equities/bonds (with equities evenly split between CA/US/Int'l) have an expected nominal return of 4.8%, but a standard deviation of 4.7%. On volatility, maximum annual loss of -4.2% and largest drawdown (from the top to the bottom) is -10%. So it's certainly been possible for a safer asset mix to do poorer than 2.65% over a 5 year-term, but that's part of the risk/return dance.
Intricated

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