Art and Photography

R or R6 - Help me Decide

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[OP]
Deal Addict
Feb 26, 2016
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Vaughan

R or R6 - Help me Decide

I'm a long-time camera enthusiast but I don't shoot professionally. I have always shot with Canon and started with the Rebel XSi and upgraded to the 60D. I also purchased Canon's first mirrorless camera - the Canon EOS M but that was a disaster and disappointment. Just last year, I thought I'd give the mirrorless world another try (since it's seems to be the future of where photography is heading) so I invested in a Fujifilm XT-20. The XT-20 is a great camera and I love it but I find that in doesn't quite perform the way I'd like in low light settings (especially indoors when I am trying to take pictures of the kids running around). In addition, with the cropped sensors on both my 60d and XT-20, I don't get the wider field of view that I would like to see.

So I've finally decided to take the leap to the full frame world (I should have just skipped the XT-20). At first, I was adamant on getting the 5DM4 but after research, I've been convinced that canon's new full frame mirrorless cameras (R, R6 and R5) are superior to the 5DM4. I just liked the superior build of the 5DM4 and the optical viewfinder but most users of the 5DM4 have convinced me that the new mirrorless cameras are the way to go.

So the RP, R, R6 and R5 are priced at $1250, $2200, $3200, $5200 respectively. The R5 is definitely out of budget and probably more than I need. I've narrowed it down the R or R6 but they are still $1000 apart.

To me, the primary benefit of the R6 over the R is the IBIS and more advanced autofocus and the only negative is really just the lower mp. If the AF is significantly better in the R6 and the combination of the IBIS will leave with me with significantly more useable pictures, I think investing the extra $1000 would be worth it. How does the AF in the XT-20 compare to the R and R6? In addition, I believe the R is the first full-frame mirrorless camera by Canon. I got burned buying the EOS M when it first came out and since the "R" is also their first "test" version, I'm a bit worried that it won't live up to expectations. For what it's worth, nowadays I shoot predominantly indoors with less than optimal lighting and generally of the kids running around the house.
12 replies
[OP]
Deal Addict
Feb 26, 2016
1458 posts
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Vaughan
Qwesty905 wrote: what lenses do you have with xt-20
just the kit lens 18-55
Member
Apr 27, 2017
435 posts
329 upvotes
what lenses do you want to get with canon?

the 18-55 does have IBIS, but still not a very fast aperture in low light..
[OP]
Deal Addict
Feb 26, 2016
1458 posts
463 upvotes
Vaughan
Qwesty905 wrote: what lenses do you want to get with canon?

the 18-55 does have IBIS, but still not a very fast aperture in low light..
the 18-55 is the lens I have on my X-T20. A fuji lens that is not compatible with the Canon full frame bodies that I'm considering.

For the new canon full frame mirrorless camera (for which I haven't decided what to get), I'm planning on getting a wide angle lens like the Canon EF 16-35mm f/4L IS USM Lens. I also have a Canon EF 24–105mm f/4L IS II USM Lens currently which I use with my 60D. I also have a Tokina 12-24mm lens that I use on my 60d but because the 60d is a crop sensor, it's not as wide as I'd like it to be. If it's compatible with an RF body, I might consider keeping it and not buying the additional 16-35mm lens.
Member
Apr 27, 2017
435 posts
329 upvotes
if you are thinking f4 would be better in low light than the 18-55 youll be mistaken...

i'd look into the xs-10 from fuji and maybe a 18mm f1.4 for wide fast lens...

but if you are set on full frame then yes get the canon
Jr. Member
Oct 22, 2020
110 posts
91 upvotes
If you buy the R bodies why would you still want to buy EF lenses? You'll need an adapter to mount the EF lenses. The RF lenses are the way to go. Optically, the RF lenses with the shorter flange distance are "better" than the longer flange distance EF lenses with respect to wide-angle lenses. Compare for instance the RF 14-35 F4, which can go 2 mm wider than the comparable EF 16-35 F4 (for more money, admittedly).

I'm still committed to full-frame optical viewfinders myself.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Feb 26, 2016
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Vaughan
kelaaa wrote: If you buy the R bodies why would you still want to buy EF lenses? You'll need an adapter to mount the EF lenses. The RF lenses are the way to go. Optically, the RF lenses with the shorter flange distance are "better" than the longer flange distance EF lenses with respect to wide-angle lenses. Compare for instance the RF 14-35 F4, which can go 2 mm wider than the comparable EF 16-35 F4 (for more money, admittedly).

I'm still committed to full-frame optical viewfinders myself.
My understanding is that RF lenses are more expensive (also less reviewed) and given that the EF lenses work well without any compromise with the adapter, I felt that I can use it interchangably with my 60d still.
Jr. Member
Oct 22, 2020
110 posts
91 upvotes
But what are you going to do with the 60D? Are you going to carry two bodies? Will your spouse use one at the same time? But even then, why not just give them the body with the lens attached rather than switch lenses? Backwards compatibility sounds nice, but is it actually useful to you? For instance, on my last laptop in 2014 I spec'ed a BluRay player, but never actually tried to use it until 2019, by then which it no longer worked. So that was money wasted.

Your Tokina 12-24 will not make an image that covers the full frame sensor. You can crop an image from it, but it will not be 12 mm equivalent.

Have no fear, the newly released Canon lenses tend to phenomenal. I'm not sure what is, but the combination of modern computer optical design and manufacturing have resulted in superb lenses.

Looking at the photos, I would say go with the R6. It's newer by about a year and half. The viewfinder is most likely better. The controls layout would be what I would consider more traditional.
Sr. Member
Nov 12, 2012
779 posts
512 upvotes
Calgary
I bought the R about a year after it's release. Overall, I'm very happy with the camera and it was a nice upgrade from my 6D. Still only using adapted EF lenses on it, and they still perform great.
Here's what I don't like about the R
  • The touchbar is effectively useless, the joystick on the R5/R6 is much better
  • Continuous shooting mode is too slow
  • no dual card slots
If I had to make the decision all over again today, I would go for the R6. IBIS would be nice to have, but i've never actually had it, so I don't know what i'm missing out on. Sure you lose some resolution going from 30MP in the R to 20MP in the R6, but not really a concern unless you're printing large format.
Deal Fanatic
Dec 28, 2005
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otaknap wrote: I'm a long-time camera enthusiast but I don't shoot professionally. I have always shot with Canon and started with the Rebel XSi and upgraded to the 60D. I also purchased Canon's first mirrorless camera - the Canon EOS M but that was a disaster and disappointment. Just last year, I thought I'd give the mirrorless world another try (since it's seems to be the future of where photography is heading) so I invested in a Fujifilm XT-20. The XT-20 is a great camera and I love it but I find that in doesn't quite perform the way I'd like in low light settings (especially indoors when I am trying to take pictures of the kids running around). In addition, with the cropped sensors on both my 60d and XT-20, I don't get the wider field of view that I would like to see.
What are you shooting? Can you give us some examples of where you feel the X-T20 is limiting you? How many lenses do you have already? It could very well be that all you need is a wider aperture lens or a newer body. What is your output medium (Social Media? Print? Computer screen?).

I would be cautious about throwing thousands at a problem that may not net you tangible benefit. I've spent a lot of money this year evaluating a lot of cameras (RXVII, Z7, A7R III, A7C, X-Pro 2, X-T30, KP, K1 II, Typ240, SL, FP, and S5) and reached the conclusion that unless someone is paying me for this, it really doesn't matter. DxO is so good and web compression is so awful that unless I am sitting there viewing photos side-by-side 1:1 or standing right in front of a print, I can't tell the difference between formats.

What's more important is making sure the ergonomics are good for you and the system has the lenses you want. I've been through four Sony cameras now and no matter how amazing the autofocus is or how awesome their third party lens line-up is, I just can't get on-board with their feel in-hand. For Fuji, they just don't have the lenses I want (I really like wildlife), I hate what X-Trans does to foliage and I can't be bothered to invest in a new post processing workflow to fix that. Their cyan shift in greens is also a huge pain in the butt (for me). I have also realised that I really, really enjoy the freedom that IBIS provides and unless a huge chunk of my lenses are stabilised, I'm not going to be buying into a system.
[OP]
Deal Addict
Feb 26, 2016
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Vaughan
MikeinYYC wrote: I bought the R about a year after it's release. Overall, I'm very happy with the camera and it was a nice upgrade from my 6D. Still only using adapted EF lenses on it, and they still perform great.
Here's what I don't like about the R
  • The touchbar is effectively useless, the joystick on the R5/R6 is much better
  • Continuous shooting mode is too slow
  • no dual card slots
If I had to make the decision all over again today, I would go for the R6. IBIS would be nice to have, but i've never actually had it, so I don't know what i'm missing out on. Sure you lose some resolution going from 30MP in the R to 20MP in the R6, but not really a concern unless you're printing large format.
Thanks! this means a lot given that you have already used or are still using the R. I'm also leaning more towards spending the extra $1K for the R6 mainly for the IBIS, better low light performance and significantly better AF.

unshavenyak wrote: What are you shooting? Can you give us some examples of where you feel the X-T20 is limiting you? How many lenses do you have already? It could very well be that all you need is a wider aperture lens or a newer body. What is your output medium (Social Media? Print? Computer screen?).

I would be cautious about throwing thousands at a problem that may not net you tangible benefit. I've spent a lot of money this year evaluating a lot of cameras (RXVII, Z7, A7R III, A7C, X-Pro 2, X-T30, KP, K1 II, Typ240, SL, FP, and S5) and reached the conclusion that unless someone is paying me for this, it really doesn't matter. DxO is so good and web compression is so awful that unless I am sitting there viewing photos side-by-side 1:1 or standing right in front of a print, I can't tell the difference between formats.

What's more important is making sure the ergonomics are good for you and the system has the lenses you want. I've been through four Sony cameras now and no matter how amazing the autofocus is or how awesome their third party lens line-up is, I just can't get on-board with their feel in-hand. For Fuji, they just don't have the lenses I want (I really like wildlife), I hate what X-Trans does to foliage and I can't be bothered to invest in a new post processing workflow to fix that. Their cyan shift in greens is also a huge pain in the butt (for me). I have also realised that I really, really enjoy the freedom that IBIS provides and unless a huge chunk of my lenses are stabilised, I'm not going to be buying into a system.
Thanks for your response. That is definitely one of my concerns that I may be "throwing thousands at a problem that may not net in a tangible benefit". I'm mainly shooting indoors around the house of my kids running around. Prior to kids, I enjoyed landscape photography which the X-T20 works great with (even though my 18-55 isn't a wide angle lens). As far as output medium - it'll be mostly social media but I will occasionally print (4x6) and sometimes much larger type prints as artwork around the house - so for output medium, I want that flexibility to be able to do it all.

The XT-20 currently works well around the house during the day but in the evenings or with limited natural light, the amount of useable pictures significantly declines. I understand that I could potentially upgrade my lens to a F1.4 or F1.8 but I always wanted a full frame camera which I felt could bring in more light without having to invest in lower F stop lenses. Even with my 60d and using my nifty 50 (F1.8). I have a significant amount of portraits of the kids that end up being blurry because they aren't very still (as you can imagine). From what I've researched, the new R lines have significantly better AF and as a result a much lower "out of focus" count. The idea is to invest in one of the full frame mirrorless cameras (likely the R6 or R) and if I need to upgrade to lens with a lower F/stop, I can do that down the road. The ultimate goal is to take more usable pictures especially since I no longer have time or like to spend time post-processing pictures.
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otaknap wrote: The XT-20 currently works well around the house during the day but in the evenings or with limited natural light, the amount of useable pictures significantly declines. I understand that I could potentially upgrade my lens to a F1.4 or F1.8 but I always wanted a full frame camera which I felt could bring in more light without having to invest in lower F stop lenses. Even with my 60d and using my nifty 50 (F1.8). I have a significant amount of portraits of the kids that end up being blurry because they aren't very still (as you can imagine). From what I've researched, the new R lines have significantly better AF and as a result a much lower "out of focus" count. The idea is to invest in one of the full frame mirrorless cameras (likely the R6 or R) and if I need to upgrade to lens with a lower F/stop, I can do that down the road. The ultimate goal is to take more usable pictures especially since I no longer have time or like to spend time post-processing pictures.
The EOS R has good autofocus, but so do the newer Fuji bodies (X-T30, etc.). I think both will do well enough for children. As for lenses, you're looking at 2/3 of a stop difference due to sensor size. Which lens are you looking at to pair with the R body? If it's one of the slower zooms, then you are not necessarily gaining anything. Lastly, I think the easiest way to avoid excessive post-processing is to have SOOC jpegs you like. Fuji gives you the most flexibility there.

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